Peter and the Wife

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Someone asked me why popes/priests dont get married if Peter was married. What about setting the standard?
Now I realize that he was married before he became The Rock, and that Paul said that giving up an earthly wife for the Bride of Christ would have its rewards. Also Jesus said that line about the people who were clelibate by choice would have their reward as well.
…So what do I say?
 
Catholic Dude:
Someone asked me why popes/priests dont get married if Peter was married. What about setting the standard?
Now I realize that he was married before he became The Rock, and that Paul said that giving up an earthly wife for the Bride of Christ would have its rewards. Also Jesus said that line about the people who were clelibate by choice would have their reward as well.
…So what do I say?
You should say that yes it is true that Peter was married and the reason for the vow of celibacy is a disciplinary one.

You could also explain that the reform of the Church that introduced this discipline came about because of certain abuses regarding property. For example in France the Church property was inherited, thus a 15 year old boy became a bishop when his uncle died. Those laws needed to be changed so that inheritance was no longer an issue within the Church.

Another reason for the reform related to some of the stories about hanky panky amidst certain priests and nuns, including one pope (cannot remember which one but he did not make any decisions affecting the Church), and this kind of behaviour needed to be reformed.

Always tell the person that the seminarian always has the choice of not completing his vows and accepting the priesthood as a vocation.

The vow of celibacy is meant to lead to continence with God, not incontinence. Those who assualt children and women have not been continent with God, and they will have to face God as their judge one day.

MaggieOH
 
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MaggieOH:
You should say that yes it is true that Peter was married and the reason for the vow of celibacy is a disciplinary one.

You could also explain that the reform of the Church that introduced this discipline came about because of certain abuses regarding property. For example in France the Church property was inherited, thus a 15 year old boy became a bishop when his uncle died. Those laws needed to be changed so that inheritance was no longer an issue within the Church.

Another reason for the reform related to some of the stories about hanky panky amidst certain priests and nuns, including one pope (cannot remember which one but he did not make any decisions affecting the Church), and this kind of behaviour needed to be reformed.

Always tell the person that the seminarian always has the choice of not completing his vows and accepting the priesthood as a vocation.

The vow of celibacy is meant to lead to continence with God, not incontinence. Those who assualt children and women have not been continent with God, and they will have to face God as their judge one day.

MaggieOH
You say that the discipline of priestly celibacy came about as a reform from abuses in France? If that is what your saying I think you may be bit mistaken. I’d like to know what year you attach to that claim. Because in Apostolic Origins of Priestly Celibacy Fr. Cochini shows that the practice goes all the way to the Aposotles including Pope St. Peter.
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MaggieOH:
You should say that yes it is true that Peter was married and the reason for the vow of celibacy is a disciplinary one.

You could also explain that the reform of the Church that introduced this discipline came about because of certain abuses regarding property. For example in France the Church property was inherited, thus a 15 year old boy became a bishop when his uncle died. Those laws needed to be changed so that inheritance was no longer an issue within the Church.

Another reason for the reform related to some of the stories about hanky panky amidst certain priests and nuns, including one pope (cannot remember which one but he did not make any decisions affecting the Church), and this kind of behaviour needed to be reformed.

Always tell the person that the seminarian always has the choice of not completing his vows and accepting the priesthood as a vocation.

The vow of celibacy is meant to lead to continence with God, not incontinence. Those who assualt children and women have not been continent with God, and they will have to face God as their judge one day.

MaggieOH
Yes, one could say these things. But, one would be wrong if one did.

The discipline of celibacy has absolutely nothing to do with anything you’ve posted, and what you have posted has no basis in fact.
 
This is just my impression, but it seems to me that after Peter was called by Jesus, his wife did not see much of him. This would apply to any of the other apostles who were married as well. Think of the sons of Zebedee, who left their father standing in the boat at the call of Jesus.

After Pentecost, the birthday of the Church, the apostles did as they were commanded, going to the ends of the earth to preach the Gospel. It doesn’t seem that they brought their families with them. That kind of commitment to follow the Lord and his command to spread the gospel, is a good reason for celibacy.
 
There is not mention of Peter’s wife in scripture only the mother in law. Anything is possible here. It is possible Peter’s wife had died by the time he met Jesus. It was common for wives to die in childbirth at the time.
Strikes me as starge that Peter’s ministry is described in detail in acts and not one mention of his wife.
Peter having a mother in law prooves nothing here.
Paul was celibate as was Jesus as was most of the apsotles. There is strong tradition of celibacy in the early church however it was a preferred custom and not an absolute as it is today we have married priest in the latin rite but they are the exception as the preferred custom is still celibacy even in the east celibacy is preferred and the norm for bishops and monks while more flexibility is given to parish priest who are allowed to marry before ordination but not after ordination.
 
Is the story then about Peter’s wife dying as a martyr to the faith then only a tale losely based in tradition?

There is mention of her accompanying him on his mission in the New Testament. I can’t remember where exactly right now. I will look it up. If she died before him, it was certainly after he began acting as head of the church.
 
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serendipity:
Is the story then about Peter’s wife dying as a martyr to the faith then only a tale losely based in tradition?

There is mention of her accompanying him on his mission in the New Testament. I can’t remember where exactly right now. I will look it up. If she died before him, it was certainly after he began acting as head of the church.
I’ve never heard of Peter’s wife being a martyr, but then I’ve not been a Catholic to terribly long either. Still, I don’t think that is what the scriptures indicate. (see Matthew 19:27-30)
 
None of the fathers that knew Peter like Clement or Ignatius relays anything about Peter having a wife. Eusebius testifies to this and there is not a strong tradition about Peter’s wife.

However Clement of Alexandria who did not know Peter nor any father who would know Peter claimed that Peter’s wife was martyred.
It’s not a strong tradition but an isolated mention.

How reliable can an isolated be? Consider this most fathers said Jesus died in his earlly thirties Irenaues all by himself says Jesus died at 50. Usually isolated mention are isolated for a reason they don’t with the story or non-story that the other fathers have a consensus on.
I think the consensus is that we don’t have reliable info on Peter’s wife.
 
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serendipity:
Is the story then about Peter’s wife dying as a martyr to the faith then only a tale losely based in tradition?

There is mention of her accompanying him on his mission in the New Testament. I can’t remember where exactly right now. I will look it up. If she died before him, it was certainly after he began acting as head of the church.
You are wrong Peter’s wife is never mentioned in scripture. His wife is mentioned by only one church father. She is mostly only known through tales and fables.
 
1 Cor 9:5 directly mention of Peter’s wife, something to the efect that “every Christian has the right to be accompanied by a wife, like Cephas,” (Peter). I think if she were dead then, it would make no sense to say Peter has the right to be accompanied by her…even though she is dead now. Besides, Paul was a big advocate of widowers not remarrying, believing that it is better to try to serve God from a celibate life style.

The story of Peter’s wife’s matrydom is written in The History of The Church by Eusebius, who was a bishop somewhere in the Holy Land during the 300s. In it, he uses a source written by Clement of Alexandria, Miscellanies (Book VII) .

I am not sure if Clement constitutes a “Church Father.” He lived during AD 150-215 and describes the scene of her martyrdom as:

We are told that when blessed Peter saw his wife led away, to her death, he wa glad that her call had come and that she was returning home, and spoke to her in the msot encouraging and comforting way, addressing her by name:" My dear, remember the Lord." Such was the marriage of the blessed, and their consummate feeling towards their dearest.

My question, is if he spoke to her by name, then why don’t we have a name. Maybe Clement is not a reliable source. I’m not sure. But I would not claim that there is no absolutely evidence that Peter’s wife lived during the time he met and began to follow Christ.

I have seen a soucre that calims they both were in Rome during the persecution of the Christians by Nero in AD 64-67, but don’t know how reliable the source is as it gives not reference for how it knows this…only says “we know that…”

In terms of only being mentioned by an isloated person or incident, I think the fact that she is mentioned at all indicates that she was there. Women are very easily erased from history because they are not thought of as important enough to remember. Predominantly (Mary the mother of God, being an obvious exception), they were not the main message bringers, and they were not like doctrines, which church members sought to preserve because the embodiment of teachings are though necessary for salvation.
 
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JLove:
You say that the discipline of priestly celibacy came about as a reform from abuses in France? If that is what your saying I think you may be bit mistaken. I’d like to know what year you attach to that claim. Because in Apostolic Origins of Priestly Celibacy Fr. Cochini shows that the practice goes all the way to the Aposotles including Pope St. Peter.
amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0898709512/qid=1106787456/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2589419-7659810?v=glance&s=books
The practice goes all the way back, but the discipline does not. It is historically accurate that there were married clergy in the Roman rite for quite some time. It is also historically accurate that there were issues among the clergy of not only having wives but concubines. It is also historically accurate that the Catholic Church, as opposed to the Roman rite of the Catholic Church, has had a continuing history of married clergy, through the Eastern rites.

It appears that some people ascribe to the idea that there are people who deny that there has been a tradition of celebacy within the Roman rite; I don’t know of anyone wha has ever said that. However, the tradition was not a binding tradition. It bacame a binding discipline well after the Church was founded. It may well have been that the majority, or even the large majority, of ordained individuals were celebate at any given period in the early history of the Church, There were, however, married clergy in the Church from the time of its founding foward, and to this date.

There are a number of statements in the Gospels and Epistles directed towards celebacy. The arguements for and against mandatory celibacy are interesting, but the likelyhood of the Roman rite lifiting the discipline is most likely low.
 
serendipity said:
1 Cor 9:5 directly mention of Peter’s wife, something to the efect that “every Christian has the right to be accompanied by a wife, like Cephas,” (Peter). I think if she were dead then, it would make no sense to say Peter has the right to be accompanied by her…even though she is dead now. Besides, Paul was a big advocate of widowers not remarrying, believing that it is better to try to serve God from a celibate life style.

The story of Peter’s wife’s matrydom is written in The History of The Church by Eusebius, who was a bishop somewhere in the Holy Land during the 300s. In it, he uses a source written by Clement of Alexandria, Miscellanies (Book VII) .

I am not sure if Clement constitutes a “Church Father.” He lived during AD 150-215 and describes the scene of her martyrdom as:

We are told that when blessed Peter saw his wife led away, to her death, he wa glad that her call had come and that she was returning home, and spoke to her in the msot encouraging and comforting way, addressing her by name:" My dear, remember the Lord." Such was the marriage of the blessed, and their consummate feeling towards their dearest.

We cannot deduce from 1 Cor 9:5 that the apostles or Peter were married at this point.
Simple Reason the Gk = a sister as wife
that is the literal translation the footnote in the NRSV says this
the RSV gives the other possible translation other than wife = woman, sister

The Amplified Bible translates this literally as such.
Have we not the right also to take along with us a Christian sister as wife, as do the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephas
The Douay Rheims
Have we not the power to carry about a woman, a sister, as well as the rest of the apostles, and the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

Remember who is speaking here it is Paul he has no wife to take this as instructiion to take a wife would be misleading.

As the notes in the Douay Rheims says
" A woman, a sister. Some erroneous translators have coruppted this text by rendering it, a sister, a wife; Whereas it is certain that St Paul has no wife and that he only speaks of such devout women as according to the custom of the Jewish nation, waited upon the preachers of the gospel and supplied them with necessaries.
Tanslation people took sister in the early church to help them wifely duties so they could spend them time with the duties of the church.

The newer translation have an agenda and translate that agenda into their text to the Aplified Bibles’s credit it gives the literal translation. As does the Douay. At the very least we have different ways of translating the Greek text. So we are back to where we began we don’t know if Peter’s wife was alive at this point. He coould have had his sister or woman help him with things his wife would have helped him with.

Look I know Peter was married all I am saying is that we don’t know for sure what ever became of her. She is never mentioned by name if Paul was using Peter’s wife as an example he would have dropped her name and not just a greek word that when literally translated means a sister as wife.

I already pointed out Clement of Alexandria is the sole witness for what became of Peter’s wife. Ther is a multitude of evidence of what became of Peter - his crucufixion. With his wife we have one reference by a person who knew not Peter nor did he know a person that knew of Peter. Clement of Alexandria was not a saint. His school of Alexandria was ripe with the heresey or Origenism. Origen was his student who taught such trivial things as the devil and his demons being saved.
We really have to question the tradition that came out this school.
How is he viewed?
“Clement is not an important theolgian not a profound thinker”
E Bevan Christianity p76
IF this is your sole evidence your left wanting.
What we know of Peter’s wife is in the Golden Legends’ the same place where we get tales and fables that mix fact with fiction.
Amusing books that read like Christian Fairy tails.

Bottom line we don’t anything about Peter’s wife for certain.
We do know he was married at one time. That’s it.
Where some christian bishops, priests married in the early church? Yes
Where some celibates?
Yes?
And was the celibate life more celibrated?
Yes.
Look I have nothing against a married clergy but I am against reading into the Bible or history as if we knew for sure the whereabout of Peter’s wife so to dissprove the concept of a celibate clergy. We don’t know anything for sure about Peter’s wife.

There is strong tradition for the preference for celibacy and a strong tradition that married clergy was permitted in the east for lay priest but not for bishops universally nor priest in the west.
This was discussed in the early 3rd century at the Council of Elvira.
This whole thing is custom and not dogma so its subject to change but I wouldn’t want to discount what has been done in the past.
 
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otm:
The practice goes all the way back, but the discipline does not. It is historically accurate that there were married clergy in the Roman rite for quite some time. It is also historically accurate that there were issues among the clergy of not only having wives but concubines. It is also historically accurate that the Catholic Church, as opposed to the Roman rite of the Catholic Church, has had a continuing history of married clergy, through the Eastern rites.

It appears that some people ascribe to the idea that there are people who deny that there has been a tradition of celebacy within the Roman rite; I don’t know of anyone wha has ever said that. However, the tradition was not a binding tradition. It bacame a binding discipline well after the Church was founded. It may well have been that the majority, or even the large majority, of ordained individuals were celebate at any given period in the early history of the Church, There were, however, married clergy in the Church from the time of its founding foward, and to this date.

There are a number of statements in the Gospels and Epistles directed towards celebacy. The arguements for and against mandatory celibacy are interesting, but the likelyhood of the Roman rite lifiting the discipline is most likely low.
I am aware that the “discipline” does not go all the way back (but was defined by A.D. 300), however, I would set forth that celibacy was the norm and marriage the exception. And even within marriage there was no sexual interactions. As Maccabees hints at this can be concluded from a proper translation of 1 Cor. 9:15, as well as from quotes of the fathers.
 
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JimG:
This is just my impression, but it seems to me that after Peter was called by Jesus, his wife did not see much of him. This would apply to any of the other apostles who were married as well. Think of the sons of Zebedee, who left their father standing in the boat at the call of Jesus.

After Pentecost, the birthday of the Church, the apostles did as they were commanded, going to the ends of the earth to preach the Gospel. It doesn’t seem that they brought their families with them. That kind of commitment to follow the Lord and his command to spread the gospel, is a good reason for celibacy.
Peters wife travel to Rome with him and wwas martyred before he.
This is one of the many errors the RCC maintains. Peter who is called the first pope was married and had a daughter yet priests today are forbidden to marry.
 
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Xavier:
Peters wife travel to Rome with him and wwas martyred before he.
This is one of the many errors the RCC maintains. Peter who is called the first pope was married and had a daughter yet priests today are forbidden to marry.

In most sources it is indeterminable if Peter’s wife actually went to Rome, she may have , she may not have.

What is the “error” maintained by the R. Catholic Church?

Don’t you think Jesus knew that Peter was married when He chose Peter as the Rock? Priests are forbidden to mary, yes. This is not Theology, it is called a Practice. A Practice can be changed.
 
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Xavier:
Peters wife travel to Rome with him and wwas martyred before he. This is one of the many errors the RCC maintains. Peter who is called the first pope was married and had a daughter yet priests today are forbidden to marry.
As I said in my post, this was “just my impression.” I don’t know if Peter’s wife traveled with him or not. If I am wrong it is my error only, since the Catholic Church has no position on the matter. My only point was that the work of evangelization may have made for difficult marriages, since the apostles were commanded to “go, therefore and make disciples of all the nations.”
 
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Xavier:
Peters wife travel to Rome with him and wwas martyred before he.
This is one of the many errors the RCC maintains. Peter who is called the first pope was married and had a daughter yet priests today are forbidden to marry.
Wait a minute we have one church father ever who mentions this and one from a suspect school to begin with and you automatically believe it without question.
But when it comes to the hundreds of church fathers that point to other catholic postions such as the catholic church being the only church, the sacraments interpreted as real not symbolic, apostolic succession and on and on.you don’t hold those as valid even though they came from known Orthodox sources but one tradition you think contradicts church (it does not) you automatically beleive it.
If you have such high regard for one comment you should be catholic as a multitude of church fathers and not one beleive the one holy catholic church is the only christian church.
 
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Xavier:
Peters wife travel to Rome with him and wwas martyred before he.
This is one of the many errors the RCC maintains. Peter who is called the first pope was married and had a daughter yet priests today are forbidden to marry.
 
Exporter said:
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In most sources it is indeterminable if Peter’s wife actually went to Rome, she may have , she may not have.

What is the “error” maintained by the R. Catholic Church?

Don’t you think Jesus knew that Peter was married when He chose Peter as the Rock? Priests are forbidden to mary, yes. This is not Theology, it is called a Practice. A Practice can be changed.

Early church tradition holds that Peters wife was martyred at Rome.
Peters confession is the rock (alas another lifetime of arguement)
My point is how ironic that Peter was chosen by Christ as an apostle and who you clainma as the first pope was married. Peter in todays Catholic Church could not even be a deacon much less a priest.
 
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