Peter Kreeft - One True Church (Catholic and Protestant)

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These are amazing pair of short 2 minute video messages from the great Catholic apologist , Peter Kreeft. The first one elicited a least a few “heresy!” comments.

What do you think: truth or heresy?

Peter Kreeft - One True Church (Catholic and Protestant)


“Because the Catholic church has been so remiss in giving God’s children the fullness of the spiritual food, therefore the children have been going elsewhere to eat it,
and God has allowed this because God is a good Father, and a Good Father would rather see his children go away from home and live, rather than stay home and die…”

Peter Kreeft - Catholic Fireplaces and Protestant Fires:

 
observer333 said:
“Because the Catholic church has been so remiss in giving God’s children the fullness of the spiritual food, therefore the children have been going elsewhere to eat it,
and God has allowed this because God is a good Father, and a Good Father would rather see his children go away from home and live, rather than stay home and die…”
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I don’t understand this kind of thinking. Because the Catholic Church has been remiss? Eh…

I think more along the lines of because Moses was soft he allowed these shenanigans, but in the beginning it was not so.
 
Justin_Mary said:
I don’t understand this kind of thinking. Because the Catholic Church has been remiss? Eh…

I think more along the lines of because Moses was soft he allowed these shenanigans, but in the beginning it was not so.
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I do.

There seems to be very much an attitude among Catholics when people speak about liturgical preferences that you are there for Jesus, put up with it.

Indeed Jesus should be our main focus. However if we have valid preferences I don’t see why an effort can’t be made to accommodate them.

In an ideal world I would try to have Masses to cater for any preferred licit liturgical style. Either in the parish or by coordination between neighboring parishes.
 
I have listened to both videos @observer333 .

I find nothing wrong in what he says .

In fact , I agree strongly with what he says .
 
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There is hardly any contemporary writer or speaker that I respect as much as Kreeft. I’m sorting out my response to the short talk.

I was formerly active in the Catholic Charismatic movement. I saw a fair number of Catholics leave the Church, saying “I have to go where I will be fed”.

But then most wound up shopping around, seeking only “to be fed”, and not feeding others.
 
Not sure what to make of it. Perhaps he’s been at Boston College too long.
 
Here is a Patheos article about Kreeft & protestantism:

www.patheos.com

Why The Catholic Church Must Become More Protestant

If the Catholic Church is going to attract Evangelicals it is going to have to become more Evangelical; not making Protestants choose between fullnesses.
www.patheos.com www.patheos.com

Dr. Peter Kreeft is a brilliant theologian, philosopher, and a Evangelical Protestant convert to the Catholic faith.

I’ve listened to several of his lectures, read many of his articles, and become a devotee. He’s got a lot of great stuff to say, and he isn’t afraid to say it. His appeal, to me, is that Kreeft is not a man who’s afraid to mince his words.

Still, I was floored by a comment he made in a lecture on ecumenism—that is, his view on how to restore Christian unity. A task I see, and many see, as absolutely critical in our age.

Without compromising the integrity of the Catholic Church, and the truth of Catholic doctrine, Kreeft said, simply, that if Catholicism is going to have any hope of attracting our non-Catholic brothers and sisters the Catholic Church must become more Protestant.

I’m convinced he’s right, and his remarks, his solution to the problem of ecumenism, has had a significant impact on my orientation towards Christian unity and the tenor of my prayers ever since.

His perspective utterly changed mine.

What’s Great About the Protestant Church​

When Kreeft, and myself, say “Protestant Church,” I think we both have in mind Evangelical Protestantism purely for practical reasons: this is where our experience lies. So, mainline church-goers, this need not necessarily apply. Mainline Protestant churches, rather, could probably learn from these same lessons.

Evangelical Protestantism, says Kreeft, has a serious market cornered on relationship-building , discipleship , and evangelization . That is, Evangelical churches the world over are great at making people feel welcome (like they’re part of something bigger—because they are), teaching them how to become “little Jesus’s”, and equipping them to go out into the world and act accordingly.

Through successful programs of Bible Study, Sunday School, youth groups, and enriching fellowship, Evangelical churches build up a community that feels like a community. They’re accessible and welcoming.

Through this kind of dedication and devotion to study and fellowship, Evangelicals are equipped to live amongst the world and witness to Christ—to live a life oriented to Christ and make it known. And the job of being Christ to our fellow sojourners is taken seriously, for the most part. The Evangelical church is, fundamentally, missionary in its orientation. And it shows: it’s growing , or at least shrinking less quickly than other Christian orientations.

Finally, Evangelicals do worship music right…
 
I agree with his comments pertaining to contemporary Catholic education.

It seems like of the people I went to grade and middle school with, more than half are now atheists or non-Catholics.
 
The first video seems very wrong to me. If the dogma of “outside the Church there is no salvation” is true, then God would never bring someone away from the Church to be saved. If someone needed God’s presence in their lives, God would help them find Himself in the Catholic Church, not by leading them to leave the Church and thereby commit sin. And I don’t see how you can move closer to the fullness of the Catholic Faith by leaving the Catholic Church, that doesn’t make sense.
 
Dr. Kreeft remains one of my favorite Roman Catholic thinkers, even though he and I disagree on a vast array of issues. The videos and article just

The article the OP shared in a follow up post is excellent advice for all of us, even though Dr. Kreeft forgets the controversy over Chalcedon which caused the Oriental Orthodox to split off.

The respect with which he treats the issue, however, helps engender fruitful dialogue. I know, at least for myself, (mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa) that if someone begins to be dismissive or rude, openly presuming the mantle of truth in a disagreement, I shut down, often snarkily. I fully expect, as everyone does, my opponent to believe that they believe truly—Why else would we debate and argue?—but I also expect, as everyone does, to be treated with the same dignity that my opponents demand for themselves amd their positions. Mutual respect goes a long way. If more Roman Catholics were like Peter Kreeft, more Protestants, I think, would be Roman Catholic.
 
observer333 said:
Kreeft said, simply, that if Catholicism is going to have any hope of attracting our non-Catholic brothers and sisters the Catholic Church must become more Protestant.
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Ironic.

Don’t get me wrong. I understand the Church will grow as is the nature of all living things. But he’s a convert who was attracted though this change he speaks of is yet to happen.

God is good.
 
Why do we need to attract Protestants to the Catholic Church?

Protestants who received valid baptism are already members of the Mystical Body of Christ, albeit imperfectly.
 
Elf01 said:
Indeed Jesus should be our main focus. However if we have valid preferences I don’t see why an effort can’t be made to accommodate them.

In an ideal world I would try to have Masses to cater for any preferred licit liturgical style. Either in the parish or by coordination between neighboring parishes.
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I think it would be good to understand what many of these protestants do on Sunday is good, beneficial, should be done, but it’s not worship.

If Catholics could offer that type of fellowship & service outside of Mass or Devine Liturgy… & feed us, that would be great.

Not as a substitution for Mass, but in addition.
 
angel12 said:
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commenter:
I saw a fair number of Catholics leave the Church, saying “I have to go where I will be fed”.
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Often without realizing that in order to be fed, you have to be open to being fed.
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And converted
 
I can’t find the quote now, nor can I remember the source, but I’ve heard it said that “if a person in this modern world starves, it is not from a lack of available resources, but a misappropriation of them.” Or something to that effect. Essentially, there’s plenty of food to go around, but not enough actually being used, be it thrown out, let to waste, hoarded, or simply never given away.

The same is true of spiritual formation and catechesis in the Church today, I think. The spiritual formation is not gone, its techniques are not being used. The catechesis is not dead, it is atrophied from abuse and mis- and disuse. The sensus fidei has left, and the parishioners with it, but not because the praise bands aren’t bangin’ enough.
We need a return to tradition and rigor, and in due time, we will see a return of the faithful.
We don’t need more Protestantism, we need the answer to it. Building community and fellowship is one thing, but to liken being warm to being Protestant is a non sequitur. We should just as soon say we need to be more Buddhist; my Buddhist neighbors are delightful!

But of course, that’s just silly.
 
anon48198893 said:
…albeit imperfectly.
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Well, therein lies the rub! Why should we not want them to engage in a “much more excellent” expression of the faith, indeed the fullest expression of truth?

That’s also a rather Mormon idea: baptism, then boom, onto the next one. Baptism is not all that is necessary, it’s the entry into the kingdom, the acceptance into the Mystical Body. The neophyte can always walk right back out, should they not persist in the faith.
 
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anon48198893 said:
Why do we need to attract Protestants to the Catholic Church?

Protestants who received valid baptism are already members of the Mystical Body of Christ, albeit imperfectly.
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You answered your own question. God doesn’t call us to imperfect communion.
 
StephenBales said:
We should just as soon say we need to be more Buddhist; my Buddhist neighbors are delightful!

But of course, that’s just silly.
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Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination… The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Nostra Aetate 2
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Catholicism needs to become more Buddhist as well as more Protestant.
 
Respectfully, I disagree wholeheartedly. Merely sharing elements with or recognizing good or truth in other sects/religions is not reason enough to emulate those religions. St. Paul recognized the good in the Ancient Greek society, even quoting their poets in Sacred Scripture; he never advocated being a pagan.

If the ancient Aztecs were discovered to have the most robust understanding of marriage and the family unit in the ancient world, would it follow that we should become “more Aztec”?
 
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