Petitionary prayers can harm faith

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Neithan

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Prayers of petition are basic and instinctive, even for irreligious people. But time and again I hear how someone lost their faith because they didn’t get what they prayed for, and some of the stories are heartbreaking; one wonders why God didn’t give them what they asked for.

What’s the point of petitions to God or the Blessed Mother or the saints or angels? If we don’t get what we ask for half the time, don’t these prayers just weaken our faith, and weaken the motives for our faith? Social scientists have even studied petitionary prayer and concluded that the outcomes are random: prayer has no observable effect on the chances for anything.

I’ve tried to cultivate an attitude of gratitude wherein I praise and thank God regardless of what I get from Him. My petitions have all been simplified to, “Thy Will be done.” And I think it’s because I’m afraid to ask for something that might not be granted, which could then harm my belief that there is really anyone listening to my prayers.
 
When you hear about studies that conclude that prayer has no effect, you have to keep the source in mind too, remember they have their own agenda they are pushing.

I do know what you mean though, when I hear about people in Africa, young babies, kids, dying just because the lack of water, they pray for rain, yet it never comes, that always made me wonder what is really going on, I mean, those people just needed some rainwater, its not like they were praying for a better job, more money, or something like that.

Another one happened last winter, it was during a very cold period, there was a local homeless couple being interviewed on the news, were asking them about what they do to keep warm, finding shelters, etc, but I guess there was not enough shelters, as many people were forced to sleep outside in negative zero weather, at the end of the interview, the guy said him and his wife had prayed all day about the cold, but it only got colder, windier, he said “just remember who makes this weather”, I dont think the reporter was expecting that either! he was basically saying, God sends this terrible weather, yet he knows people are forced to be outdoors during it, they pray and pray, but it only gets worse…that really made me sit down and think.
 
Neithan said:
Prayers of petition are basic and instinctive, even for irreligious people. But time and again I hear how someone lost their faith because they didn’t get what they prayed for, and some of the stories are heartbreaking; one wonders why God didn’t give them what they asked for.

What’s the point of petitions to God or the Blessed Mother or the saints or angels? If we don’t get what we ask for half the time, don’t these prayers just weaken our faith, and weaken the motives for our faith? Social scientists have even studied petitionary prayer and concluded that the outcomes are random: prayer has no observable effect on the chances for anything.

I’ve tried to cultivate an attitude of gratitude wherein I praise and thank God regardless of what I get from Him. My petitions have all been simplified to, “Thy Will be done.” And I think it’s because I’m afraid to ask for something that might not be granted, which could then harm my belief that there is really anyone listening to my prayers.
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Not all petitions are acceptable.
Even if they are acceptable sometimes God will Grant a different thing than the one asked for.

Sometimes we pray for something we do not really want.

Prayer is always a struggle.
 
“You ask but do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions.”
-James 4:3

Many petitionary prayers treat God like he’s a genie who must bend to our will, rather than the other way around. And if the result is that people lose faith in that false god, isn’t that a good thing? It certainly wouldn’t help if God gave them everything they asked for and thereby reinforced their distorted image of him.
 
Scriptures urge us greatly to petition God. Are you trying to control God and are you fussing about the outcomes?
There is a big religious movement to not petition God which is a colosal drain on faith and robber of benefit to the needy. The movement that says He is not the One to go to is robbing the people of faith.
 
As Christianians let us not forget that Jesus’ first prayer at Gethsemane was, “take this cup away from me.”
 
mikekle said:
I do know what you mean though, when I hear about people in Africa, young babies, kids, dying just because the lack of water, they pray for rain, yet it never comes, that always made me wonder what is really going on, I mean, those people just needed some rainwater, its not like they were praying for a better job, more money, or something like that.

Another one happened last winter, it was during a very cold period, there was a local homeless couple being interviewed on the news, were asking them about what they do to keep warm, finding shelters, etc, but I guess there was not enough shelters, as many people were forced to sleep outside in negative zero weather, at the end of the interview, the guy said him and his wife had prayed all day about the cold, but it only got colder, windier, he said “just remember who makes this weather”, I dont think the reporter was expecting that either! he was basically saying, God sends this terrible weather, yet he knows people are forced to be outdoors during it, they pray and pray, but it only gets worse…that really made me sit down and think.
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Yeah, I sit in my nice warm home, sipping my bottled water, and snuggling under a blanket with my dog on my lap… And I wonder why GOD doesn’t do something. :rolleyes:

Wake up, Gertabelle!! God is TRYING to do something, but apparently I am too lazy, too stingy, too selfish to get off my fat rear end and BE Christ to those in need.

WE - yes, you and I - are often the answer to people’s prayers. If they go unanswered, it is often because we aren’t willing to stand in the gap and make a difference, and to inspire others to do the same. Sometimes that means making a monetary donation; other times we have to get out hands dirty and dig the well or build the shelter.

“Whatsoever you did to the least of these, you did unto me.”

Gertie
 
Origen52 said:
As Christianians let us not forget that Jesus’ first prayer at Gethsemane was, “take this cup away from me.”
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And then: Not my will, but yours.

It’s that last part we tend to forget when we pray for things to turn out the way we want.
 
Petitionary prayer is the lowest form of prayer. God is unchangeable. Legionary prayer is more for us than for God. He knows best and if our petition is what will be best to lead us to ETERNAL good and not temporary good then it will happen as long an individuals free-will doesn’t get in the way. Those who rely on petitionary prayer are building their prayer life on sand.
 
I found this comment on a philosophy of religion site that is critical of these prayers. The last paragraph reads like one of St. Thomas Aquinas’s objections in the Summa. If only he were here to answer it 🙂
 
Neithan said:
I found this comment on a philosophy of religion site that is critical of these prayers. The last paragraph reads like one of St. Thomas Aquinas’s objections in the Summa. If only he were here to answer it 🙂
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Pretty good. I, too, find the idea of a changeable God unsettling. If God is swayed by “bribes” of prayer or sacrifice, he isn’t any better than the other gods.

On the other hand, I think the need for petition may be built into us. I wish I could remember where I read it - don’t even remember if it was fiction or non-fiction - but the atheist narrator was saying “please, please” and wasn’t sure to whom she was pleading. In moments of stress I do the same.
 
God knew all our prayers before we even uttered them! And I believe that He included our petitions in His plan. Remember, all prayers are answered but not always in the way we expect it!

God bless, V.
 
Origen52 said:
As Christianians let us not forget that Jesus’ first prayer at Gethsemane was, “take this cup away from me.”
Click to expand...
I was thinking about this. Even Our Lord prayed a petition, knowing full well he would not receive his request. A mystery of his dual nature. We can’t help but pray petitions, though they often feel like futile lamentations. Maybe the point is just to express our humanity and surrender it.
 
Remember the Lord’s Prayer which contains petitions (including a petition for daily bread, which is a very mundane thing) and was given to us as an example how to pray. Also, Jesus said that we actually should ask God for various things, so petitionary prayer cannot be useless.

God bless you, V.
 
“What is the aim of prayer, of all prayer? To unite ourselves to God in order to do His will. If prayer does not tend to this, it is a mere amusement of the mind, mere child’s play of the soul. Now what is ‘the will of God’? Our sanctification." (Bl. Dom Columba Marmion)

Acts 14:22: ‘… exhorting them to continue in the faith: and that through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God.’

Jesus to St. Mechtilde: “The more you pray for anyone, the more graces he receives, because a faithful prayer will never remain without fruit, although this fruit may be unseen by human eyes.”

Fr. Saudreau: "Mother Mary Dominique Moes was praying that her brother, a priest, might be restored to health. Our Lord said to her: ‘You know not what you ask. Leave Me to execute My designs peacefully, and do not put obstacles in their way.’ (p. 19, Vol. 2)
 
mikekle said:
When you hear about studies that conclude that prayer has no effect, you have to keep the source in mind too, remember they have their own agenda they are pushing.

I do know what you mean though, when I hear about people in Africa, young babies, kids, dying just because the lack of water, they pray for rain, yet it never comes, that always made me wonder what is really going on, I mean, those people just needed some rainwater, its not like they were praying for a better job, more money, or something like that.

Another one happened last winter, it was during a very cold period, there was a local homeless couple being interviewed on the news, were asking them about what they do to keep warm, finding shelters, etc, but I guess there was not enough shelters, as many people were forced to sleep outside in negative zero weather, at the end of the interview, the guy said him and his wife had prayed all day about the cold, but it only got colder, windier, he said “just remember who makes this weather”, I dont think the reporter was expecting that either! he was basically saying, God sends this terrible weather, yet he knows people are forced to be outdoors during it, they pray and pray, but it only gets worse…that really made me sit down and think.
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That was an interesting story about the older couple praying for warmer weather.

I couldn’t possible think of any rational explanation for this. But I can think of what a delima God is in sometimes. For maybe the colder wheather happened because of some larger sceme…killing a flue bug or crop disease. It is similar to a person praying that their football team win and an opponent praying that their football team win. Isn’t it really impossible to satisfy everyone? I believe we have all experienced this in our own life.

But what is really amazing about this story, unless this part was left out, is that the reporter didn’t do anything for this couple, or someone who was listening to this story didn’t offer help. Sometimes God carries out his love in us, but we don’t stop to think about this. That couple’s prayers could well have been answered thru someone else. But then it is easier for us to pass the buck. And I’m not excluding myself.
 
fred_conty said:
That was an interesting story about the older couple praying for warmer weather.
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This may sound heartless - & maybe it is - but why do homeless people stay in areas with harsh winters? We see that here - not so much in our small town, but in the city. We get snow, ice, and sub-zero temps every winter. It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone.

During the depression people travelled - even hitching rides on trains - to find work. Wouldn’t it make sense to move south? Why do they expect local government & charities to provide warm housing & food?
 
Bonnie said:
This may sound heartless - & maybe it is - but why do homeless people stay in areas with harsh winters? We see that here - not so much in our small town, but in the city. We get snow, ice, and sub-zero temps every winter. It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone.

During the depression people travelled - even hitching rides on trains - to find work. Wouldn’t it make sense to move south? Why do they expect local government & charities to provide warm housing & food?
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I have always wondered the same thing. I once tried to ask this questions without being rude and the response I received was basically “this is what I know”. They know where to get money and food and sadly some also know where to get the drugs they are addicted to. One homeless man also told me he couldn’t leave because of his probation requirements. There is also something to be said for the communities they live in. Some have family in the area and hope to reunite with them.

In working with and for the homeless or poor, I have found the biggest initial cause of homelessness is addiction and crime. I find it no coincidence that we also seem to desperately need prison and mental health reform in this country.
 
Bonnie said:
This may sound heartless - & maybe it is - but why do homeless people stay in areas with harsh winters? We see that here - not so much in our small town, but in the city. We get snow, ice, and sub-zero temps every winter. It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone.

During the depression people travelled - even hitching rides on trains - to find work. Wouldn’t it make sense to move south? Why do they expect local government & charities to provide warm housing & food?
Click to expand...
I wondered that too, I know if i was suddenly homeless, I would start walking south if I had to, definitely not stay somewhere that is frigid in winter, but I dont know their story, Im sure they had some reason to stay here.

Im sure it is the predicament for God, on one hand, he knows plenty of people will suffer and may die due to the frigid cold he sends, but on the other side, he is sending the cold as punishment for something else…between a rock and hard place for sure!
 
littlestsouls2 said:
“What is the aim of prayer, of all prayer? To unite ourselves to God in order to do His will. If prayer does not tend to this, it is a mere amusement of the mind, mere child’s play of the soul. Now what is ‘the will of God’? Our sanctification." (Bl. Dom Columba Marmion)

Acts 14:22: ‘… exhorting them to continue in the faith: and that through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God.’

Jesus to St. Mechtilde: “The more you pray for anyone, the more graces he receives, because a faithful prayer will never remain without fruit, although this fruit may be unseen by human eyes.”

Fr. Saudreau: "Mother Mary Dominique Moes was praying that her brother, a priest, might be restored to health. Our Lord said to her: ‘You know not what you ask. Leave Me to execute My designs peacefully, and do not put obstacles in their way.’ (p. 19, Vol. 2)
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If you hear someone petitioning God for your church leader and members to grow in graces and be protected, for good government, for your endangered relatives, you are more likely to have faith in Him to act somehow.

It is our work and we are going to be called faithful or unprofitable servants respectively as we do or don’t do this work for our fellows. This is throughout the New and even Old Testaments.

Not petitioning God is called “angelism” and is hugely pernicious.

Can posters who disagree actually explain their reasons?
 
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