Petroleum and the future of civilization

  • Thread starter Thread starter Doug50
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Al, I wonder what became of Doug50. He might like this article.
Hi Peter

The company that we sold our rigs to is looking to move into the Fayetteville Shale. As part of the sale I got stock interest so anything this new company does to move into these areas is good for me financially. As the article alluded to the available rigs are tough to come by.

As the saying goes,“the devils in the details”: In 2002, the U.S. Geological Survey estimated there may be 1.9 trillion cubic feet. Earlier this year, Terry Engelder, a Pennsylvania State University geosciences professor, made what he called a conservative estimate of 168 trillion cubic feet. His estimate has yet to be confirmed. By comparison, the U.S. consumed 23.05 trillion cubic feet last year, according to the Energy Information Administration, or about 63.2 billion cubic feet a day.

The article mentioned: “The recent surge in interest was triggered by disclosures in the fall from producer Range Resources Corp. of Fort Worth, Texas, that it had drilled a well there producing more than three million cubic feet of natural gas a day, proving that Marcellus Shale wells can be profitable. Since then, Range has reported wells that produce even more gas”

Six years ago, as a working interest owner, we drilled 4 wells in Hildalgo county that, together, produced sixty million cubic feet of gas per day. (We’ve since drilled more wells there.) To independents like us my dying dad said that was a find of a lifetime. We had to lay a thirty million cubic pipeline to handle the extrat volume. Those wells are now nearly depleted. Another, single well we drilled had two zones that each produced ten million per day with a 1000 bbls condensate per day. That well is now producing 24 bbls condensate per month and 1.9 million gas per month. These are conventional sands. When I read an article like this my first question is, “what’s this well decline rate?” How long did they test for this three million? I know people who’ve given up on the Barnett here because it’s just too expensive and the pay backs are too long. I’ll invest in these shale gas plays but I want to know their financials first: what’s their payback rate, what’s breakeven on investment.

Reputable independents like to work with other independents. There’s always a recognized promote cost to working interests by the operator. A lot of companies will sale working interest to the general public but they’ll do so at promoted prices higher than independent producers would ever pay.

Lately I’ve been reading another message board so I haven’t been spending as much time reading this one.
 
Hess chief: Action needed to avoid oil crisis
The Oil & Gas Journal, 18 Feb 2008

Oil companies, oil-producing countries, and consumers need to act now to avoid the oil crisis that is coming within the next 10 years, said John B. Hess, chairman and chief executive of Hess Corp.

“It is not only a matter of demand. It is not only a matter of supply…. We need to take steps on both fronts, and we need to start today,” Hess told an overflow crowd Feb. 12 at the Cambridge Energy Research Associates’ annual energy conference in Houston.

“Given the long lead times of at least 5-10 years from discovery to production, an oil crisis is coming and sooner than most people think. Unfortunately, we are behaving in ways that suggest we do not know there is a serious problem,” Hess said.

That’s partly because of conflicting viewpoints. “Some say that there is a large endowment of resources and that there is nothing to worry about. Some say that we have already hit peak oil, and there’s little we can do. Others say that the rapid development of renewables will fill the gap between demand and supply and reduce our carbon footprint in the process,” Hess noted. However, he said, “It is imperative that we change our mindset, our sense of urgency, or the consequences will be severe.”

On the demand side, Hess said, “We need to improve fuel efficiency in transportation and increase investments in breakthrough technologies to make fuel cell vehicles a reality.” As for supply, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries and non-OPEC producers need to increase long-term investments “to grow production greater than currently planned to ensure we avoid a supply shortfall in the next 10 years and the calamity that would ensue,” he said.

“Each of us has the responsibility to act in the long-term global interest rather than short-term self interest so that we leave a more secure world for future generations,” Hess said. “Resolving this issue through greater global collaboration can be a model for managing other future shortages, such as water, and benefit the global community. The more interdependent we are, the greater our chances of having a sustainable future together.”

Demand
Most demand is for transportation fuels. In the US, there is an average fuel mileage requirement of 23.4 mpg for passenger cars and 17.7 mpg for light trucks and sport utility vehicles, “all powered by an internal combustion engine that is fairly energy inefficient, with less than 20% of fuel actually converted to useful energy,” Hess said.

The federal government has mandated that fuel economy standards increase to 35 mpg by 2020 and new hybrid vehicles are now on the US market. “But unless there is a major breakthrough beyond these improvements, such as the introduction of a commercially and technically proven fuel-cell car, we should not expect to lower demand,” Hess warned.

In the developing countries of the world, the problem is worsening with the fast-growing demand for transportation. Goldman Sachs Group Inc. estimates the number of cars on the road will soar to 500 million in China and 600 million in India by 2050. “That’s 1.1 billion vehicles in two countries that 3 years ago had fewer than 20 million cars total—creating an overwhelming increase in the need for automotive fuel,” said Hess. Countries outside the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development now account for 40% of total oil demand and is expected to reach 50% of world demand by 2020.

cont
 
“Current population of the world is 6.6 billion and is projected to reach 9 billion by 2050. As the population in developing countries grows, the demand for oil for personal transportation will increase, too. In many cases, the political decision has been made to put subsidies on gasoline, which inflates demand even more,” said Hess.

Meanwhile, a $20-100/bbl surge in oil prices in recent years has failed to weaken world demand for crude because consumer incomes have grown faster than energy expenditures. “While energy’s share of personal spending in the US is 6%, it is still much less than food, which is 14%; housing, 15%; and medical expenses, 17%. In fact, even after the recent increase in prices, gasoline on a per unit basis is still three times less than the cost of Evian water and 10 times less than a Starbucks latte,” said Hess. “We are currently consuming 86 million b/d [of crude], and we project that oil demand will continue to grow between 1-1.5 million b/d each year for the next decade, at least. Recessions may interrupt this growth, but only temporarily.”

Supply
“Since 1980, discoveries have not replaced our annual global crude oil production,” Hess noted. “Discoveries are getting smaller and located in more difficult environments, such as the deepwater Gulf of Mexico, Brazil, and West Africa, where companies are now drilling in water depths of up to 7,000 ft and searching for targets that are in some cases more than 30,000 ft deep. Such numbers were unimaginable 10 years ago and speak to the industry’s extraordinarily innovative technology to meet increasingly complex challenges to find, develop, and produce crude oil.”

There is concern whether non-OPEC producing countries can maintain their supply role of a few years ago. According to Hess, US oil production peaked in 1970. North Sea production peaked in 2000. Mexico peaked in 2004. “Within the next few years, conventional non-OPEC production will reach a plateau. In fact, 60% of the world’s oil production is from countries that have already peaked,” Hess warned.

Renewable fuels, natural gas liquids, and unconventional oil resources such as oil sands and oil shale “need to be encouraged,” Hess said. However, he said, “Their contributions to supply are not material enough to bridge the gap in oil requirements over the next 10 years.”

With OPEC now down to 2.5 million b/d of spare capacity, Hess said, “We no longer have the safety margin for supply interruptions and demand spikes to ensure price stability. OPEC, with approximately two thirds of the world’s proven conventional crude reserves and one third of its production capacity, certainly has the resource base to relieve the pressure.” However, he said, “All oil producers—OPEC and non-OPEC alike—simply are not investing enough today to ensure sufficient capacity to meet oil needs in the next 10 years.”

Conservation and climate
Hess said, “We need to make significant progress in conservation. The growing population of hybrids and an overall improvement in automotive miles per gallon is helpful, but we need to spend more money on research to make hydrogen fuel cell vehicles a commercial reality so that the average fuel economy of a new passenger car could increase to the equivalent of 80 mpg or better. Anything we can do in terms of fuel efficiency in transportation would have the important added benefit of helping to solve another critical challenge the world faces—climate change.”

He said the US “with 5% of the world’s population and 25% of its oil consumption needs to take the lead by continuing to encourage fuel efficiency and improvement in mileage standards while driving for a technological breakthrough. With the US setting the example, hopefully, developing nations could also do their part by moving away from subsidies that send a false signal to their consumers about the real cost of energy and artificially inflate demand.”

Hess said, “We must increase investment. In 2007, global E&P investment was estimated to be approximately $350 billion, having grown about 15% each year over the previous 5 years. This increased investment has helped offset field declines and added new production.” But given the long lead times from investment to production, he said, “The current sum that both OPEC and non-OPEC nations are investing is far below what is needed to ensure sufficient production for our future.”

With oil demand growing 1-1.5 million b/d, global crude supply capacity will fall short of global demand between 2015-20. “While the International Energy Agency predicts global demand to average 98.5 million b/d in 2015, based upon current behavior, I do not see how we will meet this projection,” Hess said.

Another challenge is the growing cost and reduced availability of equipment, supplies, and services needed to increase production. “All producers have felt the impact of the rapid rise in costs, as rates for steel and offshore drilling rigs have skyrocketed. For example, a deepwater rig that cost $100,000-200,000/day in 2002 today costs $500,000-600,000/day—if you can find one available. Even if the supply industry were able to increase its investment, the significant lag time would still mean a shortfall in terms of meeting future requirements,” said Hess.

There also is a shortage of trained and experienced manpower, with US upstream employment down from 700,000 people in the early 1980s to 400,000 today. “The project delays our industry is seeing today result in part from workforce shortages and inexperience. While enrollments in engineering programs have begun to increase, they remain significantly below levels of 25 and 30 years ago,” Hess said. “We are replacing our 30- and 40-year veterans with recent graduates. Even if we stepped up our investment levels today where they need to be, we simply do not have the skilled workforce to support the many projects that may be needed.”
 
“Current population of the world is 6.6 billion and is projected to reach 9 billion by 2050. As the population in developing countries grows, the demand for oil for personal transportation will increase, too. In many cases, the political decision has been made to put subsidies on gasoline, which inflates demand even more,” said Hess. "
Doug50, how do you view the collapse of ATA and Aloha Airlines in light of the predictions of Kunstler and Heinberg that airlines are the economic “canary in the coalmine”? Where do skyrocketing fuel costs fit into the constellation of factors underlying this collapse?

Petrus
 
Doug50, how do you view the collapse of ATA and Aloha Airlines in light of the predictions of Kunstler and Heinberg that airlines are the economic “canary in the coalmine”? Where do skyrocketing fuel costs fit into the constellation of factors underlying this collapse?

Petrus
Just for the record, airlines servicing Hawaii have had terrible economic and financial problems FOR DECADES. Lots of reasons. All the fuel has to come from the mainland. The short interisland hops are grossly uneconomic for jet airplanes. There is and probably always has been intense competition with gross overcapacity. If Aloha Airlines doesn’t go out of business one year, then Hawaiian Airlines goes out the next year. It’s a cycle.

ATA and the other “irregular” carriers have ALWAYS had terrible problems. They also go out of business all the time. Good lord, with another cup of coffee I could go on for hundreds of words just naming the airlines that have gone away in the last ten years.

I’m going to get some more coffee and when I return I will do a search for the names of gone out of business airlines.

You could drive around JFK Airport in NY (and LaGuardia) … at Newark Airport, they have the airline names on the highway signs … on movable plaques … they pop up and go out like mushrooms … with a tour guide and rattle off the names of the old airlines. Concepts that didn’t work out (all first class seats, for example). Terrible management. [No details or I would get sued for detraction.] Mergers and takeovers that were grossly overpriced. One airline was doing great; some guy bought it and MOVED IT … and guess what … they had a team, but the people didn’t move with the airline and sha-zaam … the airline stopped doing so great.

The problem with airlines is that they are ROMANTIC. Zooming off to all kinds of places. Frank Sinatra singing “Come Fly With Me”. Lasagna over Los Angeles.

And these are all the wrong reasons for going into aviation.

But that’s the reason why people go into aviation. It is sooo cool.

The fact is that airplanes and airlines are labor-intensive, capital-intensive, and energy-intensive. And they always have been. And if management doesn’t get it exactly right, then the airline goes away.

AND there is always some weird thing going on … JUST YESTERDAY, there was an interesting article … they finally figured out why jet airliners are having multiple engine failures. Well, they don’t know why ALL OF A SUDDEN jet airliners are having multiple engine failures. But they do know what’s causing it.

Ice.

Inside the jet engines. Snuffing out the fire.

[how is that possible???] Not poor fuel management. Not inattention. Not distraction. Not bad budgeting. Ice. Very frustrating. They have a fix … tweaking the computer in the plane. And will study it in more detail and engineer more remedies to prevent it. But my goodness.]

Airplanes are just very expensive. And if some new cost du jour comes up, management had better raise their fares very quickly or they will come up short of money at the end of the month.

[Don’t get me started.]

[At Mass every Sunday, there’s an older fellow who used to fly four-engine propeller planes that were used to refuel jets. He’s the most modest and religious person in the world. Great guy. I flew one mission on one of those tanker planes. Everything that could go wrong, did go wrong; the only upside was that we didn’t die. We had a propeller fail just as the tanker was diving for speed and the huge jet we were refueling was wallowing around just a few feet behind and below us. The jet, a B-47 bomber dove away so we didn’t collide. And the prop didn’t break off and hit our fuselage, which had happened. And we returned to base on three engines after jettisoning our fuel.]

Airplanes are great. I would love to buy a hangar with a house attached to I could have a plane.

But when stuff goes wrong, you better not be one of those guys who lives in an office cubicle. A computer program is not going to fix the problem. Except for icing. Sometimes.
 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_airlines

Not sure, but I think the list is incomplete.

Prinair is definitely not on that list.

Too many to list here … even just the U.S. ones.

Actually, too many to count.

Warren Buffet who is a great investor lost a fortune in airline stocks. He said … I have to paraphrase him … because his actual quote would violate CAF rules and get me banned for life. … he said something like investing in airline stocks was the biggest mistake of his life.

Here’s another list.

aviationexplorer.com/defunct_airlines_worldwide.htm
 
Just for the record, airlines servicing Hawaii have had terrible economic and financial problems FOR DECADES. Lots of reasons. All the fuel has to come from the mainland. The short interisland hops are grossly uneconomic for jet airplanes. There is and probably always has been intense competition with gross overcapacity.
All, I don’t at all disagree with much or what you say here (although you know I doubt the cornucopian view that oil will last forever). My question is why – if inter-island hops are so uneconomical – there is no inter-island ferry service. I was speaking on Oahu in January at a conference on evolution and religion, and took my family to the Big Island afterward. We would happily have gone by boat, but there is no such service. Why not?

Petrus
 
Doug50, how do you view the collapse of ATA and Aloha Airlines in light of the predictions of Kunstler and Heinberg that airlines are the economic “canary in the coalmine”? Where do skyrocketing fuel costs fit into the constellation of factors underlying this collapse?

Petrus
I have the ASPO Houston DVD conference. Roger H. Bezdek. Ph.D. discussed this topic. Here’s the powerpoint he used
aspousa.org/proceedings/houston/presentations/Roger_Bezdek_Houston_Slides_10-19-07.pdf

partial quote:
HARD REALITY ABOUT
AVIATION AND FUEL PRICES
• Even at current levels, fuel costs are modest percentage of total
airline costs ~ 25% – 30%
• Doubling of fuel prices may only increase ticket prices by < 30%
• Today one can fly roundtrip nonstop from D.C. to West Coast for
$150 (or less) – normal reserved seat requiring no special deal
• If fuel prices double, ticket price may increase to ~ $190
• This would still be a very low price
• Other factors (airline cost structures, airport charges, overhead,
taxes, capacity factors, etc.) are at least as important as fuel prices
• Only aviation growth slumps in past 50 years resulted not from fuel
price increases, but from 1991 Gulf War and from 9-11 and SARS

My personal thinking is that in a broader sense consummers having to pay a higher % of their expenses going to fuel cost will look to vaction spending cut backs, one of which will be air travel esp. to places like Hawaii. Having been to Hawaii Aloha always seemed to have financial problems so I wouldn’t necessarily attribute their problem to fuel costs. Other than that I hadn’t been following the Aloha story
 
All, I don’t at all disagree with much or what you say here (although you know I doubt the cornucopian view that oil will last forever). My question is why – if inter-island hops are so uneconomical – there is no inter-island ferry service. I was speaking on Oahu in January at a conference on evolution and religion, and took my family to the Big Island afterward. We would happily have gone by boat, but there is no such service. Why not?

Petrus
Hmmm. Good question.

Found this. Not an answer to the question, though.

hawaiirama.com/2007/08/hawaii-superferry-superfiasco
 
I have the ASPO Houston DVD conference. Roger H. Bezdek. Ph.D. discussed this topic. Here’s the powerpoint he used
aspousa.org/proceedings/houston/presentations/Roger_Bezdek_Houston_Slides_10-19-07.pdf

partial quote:
HARD REALITY ABOUT
AVIATION AND FUEL PRICES
• Even at current levels, fuel costs are modest percentage of total
airline costs ~ 25% – 30%
• Doubling of fuel prices may only increase ticket prices by < 30%
• Today one can fly roundtrip nonstop from D.C. to West Coast for
$150 (or less) – normal reserved seat requiring no special deal
• If fuel prices double, ticket price may increase to ~ $190
• This would still be a very low price
• Other factors (airline cost structures, airport charges, overhead,
taxes, capacity factors, etc.) are at least as important as fuel prices
• Only aviation growth slumps in past 50 years resulted not from fuel
price increases, but from 1991 Gulf War and from 9-11 and SARS

My personal thinking is that in a broader sense consummers having to pay a higher % of their expenses going to fuel cost will look to vaction spending cut backs, one of which will be air travel esp. to places like Hawaii. Having been to Hawaii Aloha always seemed to have financial problems so I wouldn’t necessarily attribute their problem to fuel costs. Other than that I hadn’t been following the Aloha story
In my opinion, “the problem” is that all airline passengers want the cheapest air fares humanly possible. Even if they have to be squeezed in so tightly that they get blood clots in their legs from not being able to walk around. [No joke.]

Soooo … airline managements aim for the lowest humanly possible air fares. All competition is based on the lowest fares. If your airline has the cheapest fares, you get the business and your competition goes out of business. Of course, if your airline bleeds red ink for too long, then you also will go out of business.

I was reading about one of the airlines that just went out. They had zero assets. The planes were leased. So, anyone can start an airline. Just get a few investors, put in some money, hire some consultants to do the documentation and away ya go.
Sometimes it works. Usually it doesn’t.

And if your airline doesn’t make it, nobody really cares, because in an hour somebody else will start another airline to serve “your” cities. And nobody even serves “city-pairs” anymore [slight exaggeration]. Everybody uses hub and spoke routes.

Ehhhh. Don’t get me started.

There really are, in the USA, only two profitable airlines: Southwest and Fed Ex.
 
I should’ve added this quote too

http://www.aspousa.org/proceedings/houston/presentations/Roger_Bezdek_Houston_Slides_10-19-07.pdf

THE REAL ISSUE
• STUDIES FIND THAT AVIATION GROWTH IS DRIVEN
PRIMARILY BY DEMAND: GDP, BUSINESS REVENUES,
DISPOSABLE INCOME, ETC.
• As long as these are rising, forecasts predict that demand for
air travel will grow rapidly:
– Passenger traffic will grow faster than GDP
– Passenger revenues will grow faster than passenger traffic
– Air cargo will grow faster than passenger traffic or revenues
– New aircraft orders will increase rapidly
• However, causality works in both directions:
– If GDP growth lessens, or goes negative, aviation will be
disproportionately affected adversely
– It is the peak oil-induced economic effects that will do the
greatest damage to the aviation industry
• This is the real importance of peak oil for aviation
 
What’s with the underreporting of all the trucker protests against rising fuel costs?
I dunno.

The MSM underreports lots of stuff.

Pro-life rallies.

www.fairtax.org Boortz & Linder report that when there were fair tax demonstrations with thousands of supporters, none of it was reported by the MSM.
 


What do people here think of www.dieoff.org

I think it is likely there is going to be a large crash. I wonder if technology will save us.
The human species may be seen as having evolved in the service of entropy, and it cannot be expected to outlast the dense accumulations of energy that have helped define its niche. Human beings like to believe they are in control of their destiny, but when the history of life on Earth is seen in perspective, the evolution of Homo sapiens is merely a transient episode that acts to redress the planet’s energy balance.
 
http://www.roadkillbill.com/Ken-Mall.jpeg

What do people here think of www.dieoff.org

I think it is likely there is going to be a large crash. I wonder if technology will save us.
Ribozyme, dieoff.org is a good, if sobering site. I fear you are right about the coming crash (I fear billions will die before we reach sustainable equilibrium), although I feel compelled to work for a soft landing. Let me say that personally I’m very pessimistic about people willingly giving up their SUVs and long commutes from the suburbs, but professionally (as a professor, theologian, environmental activist) I force myself to be optimistic. And I think we can argue that as Christians are obliged to be optimistic and hopeful, since, after all, we are a Resurrection people. This doesn’t mean waiting for God to pump down salvation in the form of trillions more gallons of petroleum, but it does mean working for the kingdom as best we can.

Optimistically yours,
Petrus
 
Ribozyme, dieoff.org is a good, if sobering site. I fear you are right about the coming crash (I fear billions will die before we reach sustainable equilibrium), although I feel compelled to work for a soft landing. Let me say that personally I’m very pessimistic about people willingly giving up their SUVs and long commutes from the suburbs, but professionally (as a professor, theologian, environmental activist) I force myself to be optimistic. And I think we can argue that as Christians are obliged to be optimistic and hopeful, since, after all, we are a Resurrection people. This doesn’t mean waiting for God to pump down salvation in the form of trillions more gallons of petroleum, but it does mean working for the kingdom as best we can.

Optimistically yours,
Petrus
How can you be optimistic when there is a realistic possibility (I would say about 30-70%) of billions of people dying of starvation?

More Peak Oil images.
 
All, I don’t at all disagree with much or what you say here (although you know I doubt the cornucopian view that oil will last forever). My question is why – if inter-island hops are so uneconomical – there is no inter-island ferry service. I was speaking on Oahu in January at a conference on evolution and religion, and took my family to the Big Island afterward. We would happily have gone by boat, but there is no such service. Why not?

Petrus
Hi Petrus,

A friend who lives in Hawaii sent me a long email and explained that boat rides interisland are very difficult owing to the roughness of the ocean. That catamaran service just started up and the ship was damaged by the rough water and needed repairs.

He and his wife rode the catamaran and he liked the ride, but it was very rough because the waves were so high and nasty.

He said that there has been inter-island air service forever.

And apparently there are two other recent airline startups … from what I could gather … they were airlines from the mainland that decided they could be successful in the over-competitive Hawaiian local service. One went out, but the other is still there.

Some use old cheap planes. [Older planes are cheap to buy, but have the old, fuel-inefficient engines. So the capital cost is cheap, but the operating costs are higher … although since the runs are short, … me talking … the planes don’t get high enough to optimize cruise anyway because the legs are so short. But what do I know.]

I need to look up to see what equipment Mesa Air is using out there.

There is also some confusion … whether ALL of Aloha Airlines went out or just their passenger operation. There apparently is a huge inter-island air cargo operation.

The mainstream media has been very short on details.

If the Hawaii airline episode proves one thing, it’s that we cannot depend on the MSM for information, since they are unable or unwilling to provide accurate or complete information or context.

I guess living out there is so nice and so many mainlanders spent so much time watching Tom Selleck doing his thing out there … plus knowing that “Lost” is filmed out there … that everyone is willing to risk capital and operating expense money to set up new airline operations that they “believe” will do better than anyone else … even better than companies that have been operating out there for decades.

I guess when the rest of the planet runs out of oil, the folks on Hawaii will have wave power, wind power, solar power, and geo-thermal. Those who are already there will live on fish and pineapple; and without jet fuel the rest of us will not be able to get to the Hawaiian Islands.

No idea if they have a nuclear power reactor or if they will pump up the methane dissolved in the ocean. There was also a proposal to take advantage of the temp and density differences between ocean layers and create some kind of “pipe” that would spin a turbine; but that might have been a perpetual motion machine.
  • Al
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top