Pew: 77% of Catholics who are Democrats say abortion should be legal

[pnewton]

A Catholic view of pro-life not only opposes abortion, but also the death penalty, unjust immigration, and mistreatment of the poor. The latest nominee for the Supreme Court was even criticized by some for being soft on immigration and the poor, two parts of what it means to be pro-life for faithful Catholics.

I never said anything ever about waiting to condemn abortion, so I never got that point either.

 

[Shakuhachi]

A Catholic view of pro-life not only opposes abortion, but also the death penalty, unjust immigration, and mistreatment of the poor.

Yes, but I think the Pro-life movement strategy is to narrow the focus so as to be more effective with that focus.

 

[Randolph]

The latest nominee for the Supreme Court was even criticized by some for being soft on immigration and the poor, two parts of what it means to be pro-life for faithful Catholics.

Pnewton. Her name is Amy Coney Barrett. She is a wife and a mother of seven children. Her intellect and knowledge of the law are top notch and impeccable. Her nomination has been fully supported and applauded by pro-lifers and pro-life organizations through the US (you probably are not among them—although you have indicated that you are pro-life). The nation will know more about her in the coming weeks. A question for you: Is it safe to assume that you will be among those who will support efforts to smear Amy Barrett and to attempt to derail her nomination?

 

[Randolph]

A Catholic view of pro-life not only opposes abortion, but also the death penalty, unjust immigration, and mistreatment of the poor.

Pnewton. I trust that you do realize that your own views about immigration and how we treat the poor can be contested or questioned. You are not God. Good people can support legal immigration, while oppose illegal immigration. Prudentially, there are lots of room and ways to approach them. In a US, good people can have reasonable disagreements on how to deal with these issues. No one, including the poor, should be mistreated. By the way, the pictures of children locked up in cages were taken during the Obama era. I don’t recall you called it mistreatment of children—which it was.

As for the death penalty, it has been debated on this forum so many times in so many threads. You were in those threads. You can claim that your position is that of Church—but perhaps may be not. The Church and the Bible have always allowed the death penalty on moral ground. Prudentially, it’s a different matter.

 

[phil19034]

The Church already condemns abortion as unambiguously immoral.

Our pastors however do not spend a lot of time talking about it, as it is a divisive issue. I think those pastors are putting worldly success ahead of the Gospel. Our shiny Catholic School is turning out moral and religious indifference at an unprecedented rate. Denouncing serious evils would get in the way of that mission. Collections would surely drop, and people would be upset. Can you imagine? People actually getting upset about the deaths of millions of children? (sarcasm alert)

The bishops need to start excommunicating pro-abortion Catholics in politics & culture influencers (like Hollywood celebrities)

 

[phil19034]

Admirable, but…practical? Isn’t this like saying “We need to eliminate sin”? If someone (yes, this is hypothetical!) said, “We have 1,000 murders a year in this city. I know how to reduce it to 500 a year.” Would you just ignore him? Wouldn’t it be worthwhile to give it a try? One murder is bad, but would you be indifferent whether it were 1 murder or 1,000 murders?

If someone made the argument (and apparently had some data to defend their argument) that we could reduce murders by making them legal, would you be in support of making murder legal?

 

[Freddy]

Erikaspirit16:

Admirable, but…practical? Isn’t this like saying “We need to eliminate sin”? If someone (yes, this is hypothetical!) said, “We have 1,000 murders a year in this city. I know how to reduce it to 500 a year.” Would you just ignore him? Wouldn’t it be worthwhile to give it a try? One murder is bad, but would you be indifferent whether it were 1 murder or 1,000 murders?

If someone made the argument (and apparently had some data to defend their argument) that we could reduce murders by making them legal, would you be in support of making murder legal?

I think you need to ask that question in regard to something with which the majority of the population has no problem. I think everyone’s against murder. Even Catholics are split down the middle regarding abortion.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

Erikaspirit16:

Admirable, but…practical? Isn’t this like saying “We need to eliminate sin”? If someone (yes, this is hypothetical!) said, “We have 1,000 murders a year in this city. I know how to reduce it to 500 a year.” Would you just ignore him? Wouldn’t it be worthwhile to give it a try? One murder is bad, but would you be indifferent whether it were 1 murder or 1,000 murders?

If someone made the argument (and apparently had some data to defend their argument) that we could reduce murders by making them legal, would you be in support of making murder legal?

I think you need to ask that question in regard to something with which the majority of the population has no problem. I think everyone’s against murder. Even Catholics are split down the middle regarding abortion.

No, my question is specific to murder. If stats showed that MURDER would decrease if we made it legal, would you be in favor of making murder legal?

I’m not going to change it to something else because the Catholic Church teaches abortion is murder.

In regards to Catholics being split, this is a . We need to stop counting heretics. Heretics and people who don’t go to church don’t get to dictate what real Catholics believe.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

No, my question is specific to murder. If stats showed that MURDER would decrease if we made it legal, would you be in favor of making murder legal?

We’ve been over this countless times on other threads. No, murder should not be legal, even if it would somehow decrease the number. Freddy answered it well above–because almost everyone agrees that murder is wrong; therefore it should be a crime and illegal.

Abortion is a totally different case. According to several polls, those who believe the position of the Catholic Church (all abortion is murder; all abortion should be illegal) is between 16-19%, which is a small minority. It’s not a question of morality or the majority deciding what’s right and wrong. It’s a question of who gets to make the laws. And in a democracy, it’s the majority, usually with the qualification that you respect minority rights.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

No, my question is specific to murder. If stats showed that MURDER would decrease if we made it legal, would you be in favor of making murder legal?

We’ve been over this countless times on other threads. No, murder should not be legal, even if it would somehow decrease the number. Freddy answered it well above–because almost everyone agrees that murder is wrong; therefore it should be a crime and illegal.

Abortion is a totally different case. According to several polls, those who believe the position of the Catholic Church (all abortion is murder; all abortion should be illegal) is between 16-19%, which is a small minority. It’s not a question of morality or the majority deciding what’s right and wrong. It’s a question of who gets to make the laws. And in a democracy, it’s the majority, usually with the qualification that you respect minority rights.

Well, to me and the Catholic Church, abortion IS murder.

So we will never stop until it’s illegal because we are RIGHT and everyone else is WRONG.

Polls are irrelevant on this, plus those polls are 100% misleading.

There are a lot of people who think abortion should only be legal when the mothers life is actively in danger. However, in that situation a C-section to remove a baby to save the mothers life is not an abortion. Most people don’t know this nuance, so they want “abortion“ to be legal, even though a C-section is already morally permissible to save a mothers life when actively in danger.

In conclusion, there is no medical reason for an abortion, therefore all abortions are murder.

 

[pnewton]

Pnewton. I trust that you do realize that your own views about immigration and how we treat the poor can be contested or questioned.

I was not giving my position, or at least mine only.

(you probably are not among them—although you have indicated that you are pro-life).

When you make rash assumptions, you are will often be as dead wrong as you are here. I have already said Trump should get to make a nomination, and she would be a fine addition. This is why I think I will stick to my own reason. Careless guesswork is not something I care for.

Polls are irrelevant on this, plus those polls are 100% misleading.

His poll allows self identification. Also, it is limited to Democrats. I wonder if this number held consistent with other Democrats how the party could maintain such a hard line plank that excludes a quarter of their party. I would think they could become the predominate party without there abortion plank.

 

[Randolph]

When you make rash assumptions, you are will often be as dead wrong as you are here. I have already said Trump should get to make a nomination, and she would be a fine addition.

No, it was you who already lobbed the first grenade. You would not even refer Amy Coney Barrett by her name. Now, don’t tell me you did not know her name. You even took swipe at her Catholic faith. You wrote:

“ The latest nominee for the Supreme Court was even criticized by some for being soft on immigration and the poor, two parts of what it means to be pro-life for faithful Catholics.”

 

[Katie777]

They are pretend Catholics. We are anti abortion
And anti contraceptive

 

[goout]

It’s not a question of morality or the majority deciding what’s right and wrong. It’s a question of who gets to make the laws. And in a democracy, it’s the majority, usually with the qualification that you respect minority rights.

First you say you want to recognize the rights of a majority to dehumanize others, and in the same breath talk about respecting minority rights.

 

[BlessedYoungCatholic]

Well whatever you may say I’m proud that the My dear Catholic Church is defending the life of the unborn and God will surely reward them for it. They haven’t given in to societal and political pressure to recount their stance on abortion because they value the life of each individual human being given to us by God

 

[Erikaspirit16]

First you say you want to recognize the rights of a majority to dehumanize others, and in the same breath talk about respecting minority rights.

Interesting sentence, but of course nothing like what I ever wrote!

As always, I’m simply pointing out the obvious–the majority can pass laws. As for “minority rights” --meaning the pro-life folks–it is as it should be: no one is forcing you to do anything. Do whatever you want regarding abortion. It’s an individual choice!

 

[goout]

goout:

First you say you want to recognize the rights of a majority to dehumanize others, and in the same breath talk about respecting minority rights.

Interesting sentence, but of course nothing like what I ever wrote!

As always, I’m simply pointing out the obvious–the majority can pass laws. As for “minority rights” --meaning the pro-life folks–it is as it should be: no one is forcing you to do anything. Do whatever you want regarding abortion. It’s an individual choice!

As is any killing. So?
Killing is an individual choice. Got it. We agree. People choose to kill one another.
Where are you going from there?

 

[Erikaspirit16]

As is any killing. So?
Killing is an individual choice. Got it. We agree. People choose to kill one another.
Where are you going from there?

Let’s imagine we are living in a country where 16-18% of the population are very strict, conservative Hindus. They equate killing cows with murder. They look at all the MacDonalds and Burger Kings and slaughter houses with horror. They want to make killing cows illegal. I come along and say “But 80+% of the population don’t think killing cows is murder at all!” and the pro-cow advocate comes along and says “Sure it is! Of course it’s murder! I think it is, and I know the Truth! We need to make ‘saving the cows’ the centerpiece of our political views and efforts! How can you possibly think otherwise???”

And there we go.

 

[OKComputer]

We knew this. The numbers for Catholics who practice artificial birth control are also very high.

I’m a democrat, I still view myself as a democrat, I’ll always be a democrat, but this does depress me.

 

[CourtingTex]

Here another reason I left Catholicism decades ago ---- regardless of political party, to support abortion is wrong, period.