Pew: 77% of Catholics who are Democrats say abortion should be legal

[Rau]

It measures abortions per 1,000 women of child-bearing age (usually 15-45).

Would not proportion of pregnancies aborted be a better measure?

 

[Erikaspirit16]

Broadly they must be policies that offer support to pregnant women who need it, measures so that no woman feels left alone, in desperate poverty, at risk of being unable to support herself and her child.

Let’s take Canada as an example. This is just a PARTIAL list of benefits:

1. free health care (of course…it’s a human right)
2. 15 weeks pregnancy leave (before birth) and 40 weeks after birth; paid at 55% of earnings up to max. of $573 a week.
3. subsidized pre-school child care
4. Canada Child Benefit–currently up to $6,639 for children under 6 and $5,602 for children 7-17. Actual amount depends on income.

There are additional provincial benefits–these are just the federal benefits.

Does this make having children more financially possible? Of course.

 

[Randolph]

So you have actually seen someone that we can not fight abortion unless we first have a Utopia? That I would be most interesting in reading.

I was responding to another poster who argues that women seek abortion because of economic hardship. Unless society solved it, we can not address abortion appropriately. My point was that we can not wait for that (it never happened before and will not happen). The urgency of fighting abortion where millions of babies are killed each year was yesterday, and is here and now.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

why abortions are being performed in great numbers there annually?

I never said reducing or eliminating the economic burden would ELIMINATE abortions, I said it would REDUCE them. Which it does.

Same for murders and rapes?

Again, what’s this got to do with anything???

It’s hard to think our unborn off-spring is other than human.

For you and me, yes. For others, I don’t think so.

I think these days many people have talked themselves into believing that they actually are justified in killing their offspring because “me and my needs and my ‘rights’ come first”.

The problem there is your first two words: “I think…” Exactly. That’s what YOU think, not the overwhelming majority. You cannot speak for them.

Would not proportion of pregnancies aborted be a better measure?

Apparently not. This is the standard way of measuring it as far as I’m aware.

 

[Randolph]

I never said reducing or eliminating the economic burden would ELIMINATE abortions, I said it would REDUCE them. Which it does.

My point to you is that abortion is evil. About 650,000 abortions are performed in the US alone per year,. Now, even if the number is reduced by about 20%. We still have over 500,000 innocent babies killed per year in the US. That is unacceptable.

 

[Freddy]

Rau:

Broadly they must be policies that offer support to pregnant women who need it, measures so that no woman feels left alone, in desperate poverty, at risk of being unable to support herself and her child.

Let’s take Canada as an example. This is just a PARTIAL list of benefits:

1. free health care (of course…it’s a human right)
2. 15 weeks pregnancy leave (before birth) and 40 weeks after birth; paid at 55% of earnings up to max. of $573 a week.
3. subsidized pre-school child care
4. Canada Child Benefit–currently up to $6,639 for children under 6 and $5,602 for children 7-17. Actual amount depends on income.

There are additional provincial benefits–these are just the federal benefits.

Does this make having children more financially possible? Of course.

And Australia’s abortion rate from the same site is 14.2. Pretty much the same as Canada’s. What help do you get (all $ are US)?

1. Payment while you have parental leave: $540 per week for 18 weeks.
2. There’s also an upfront one-off payment of around $500.
3. Plus a weekly payment to total $1200 over 13 weeks.
4. You register your baby with Medicare when it’s born and medical treatment is then state provided and free.
5. Plus, depending on your circumstances, you get financial help with child care.

 

[Freddy]

Erikaspirit16:

I never said reducing or eliminating the economic burden would ELIMINATE abortions, I said it would REDUCE them. Which it does.

My point to you is that abortion is evil. About 650,000 abortions are performed in the US alone per year,. Now, even if the number is reduced by about 20%. We still have over 500,000 innocent babies killed per year in the US. That is unacceptable.

But you wouldn’t have any objections agreeing to any proposals that would reduce the number. I assume that statement is correct?

 

[Randolph]

But you wouldn’t have any objections agreeing to any proposals that would reduce the number. I assume that statement is correct?

We are dealing with hypotheticals here. The short answer is “No”. I neither support the killing of either 650,000 or 500,000 innocent babies. I also trust that neither do you…

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

But you wouldn’t have any objections agreeing to any proposals that would reduce the number. I assume that statement is correct?

We are dealing with hypotheticals here. The short answer is “No”. I neither support the killing of either 650,000 or 500,000 innocent babies. I also trust that neither do you…

Why is it a hypothetical? There are many ways to reduce abortions. But if someone proposed one and asked people to support it, you wouldn’t. You have excluded yourself from any conversations people might have that might help thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of women.

 

[Randolph]

But if someone proposed one and asked people to support it, you wouldn’t. You have excluded yourself from any conversations people might have that might help thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of women.

No Freddy. You need to get straight in your head an important fact. Any proposal asking you to support is hypothetical. A proposal is just a proposal. Don’t you dare telling me about excluding myself from helping thousands of women.I have volunteered for almost 20 years helping pregnant women who have considered abortions. The local Women’s Center I have been with have saved thousands and thousands of innocent babies from certain death. We have helped them with counseling and with foods, baby clothes, strollers, baby formula, etc…

I had posted that there have been many successful steps that restrict abortion such as parental notification, requirement for ultrasound, heartbeats, etc… These are very good and positive steps.

Freddy. What have you actually done to directly help pregnant women considering getting an abortion? Have you helped the mothers after they chose to keep their beautiful babies?

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

But if someone proposed one and asked people to support it, you wouldn’t. You have excluded yourself from any conversations people might have that might help thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of women.

No Freddy. You need to get straight in your head an important fact. Any proposal asking you to support is hypothetical. A proposal is just a proposal. Don’t you dare telling me about excluding myself from helping thousands of women.I have volunteered for almost 20 years helping pregnant women who have considered abortions. The local Women’s Center I have been with have saved thousands and thousands of innocent babies from certain death. We have helped them with counseling and with foods, baby clothes, strollers, baby formula, etc…

I had posted that there have been many successful steps that restrict abortion such as parental notification, requirement for ultrasound, heartbeats, etc… These are very good and positive steps.

Then my congratulations to you. It’s good that you help. And yes, it’s a lot more than I do. But you did say in the post that no, you would have objections to suggestions to reduce the number of abortions.

I’ll have to assume that you misread the question because it seems that in practical terms you do act to reduce abortions. And again, I can only say congratulations.

 

[Randolph]

Then my congratulations to you. It’s good that you help. And yes, it’s a lot more than I do. But you did say in the post that no, you would have objections to suggestions to reduce the number of abortions.

I’ll have to assume that you misread the question because it seems that in practical terms you do act to reduce abortions. And again, I can only say congratulations.

I don’t seek congratulations from my volunteer work. I volunteer because of my Catholic faith and of my love for Christ. No one in the right mind would say no to the reduction of abortions. My point was that reduction can not be the end goal. The end goal is to end abortion. Yes, it sounds impossible right now, but we need to keep on hoping and to protect innocent babies from certain death. This battle against abortion may very well be raging until Christ comes again. But it’s a battle worth fight for. Even with the reduction, hundreds of thousands of innocent babies are still being killed every year in the US alone. That’s still unacceptable.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Then my congratulations to you. It’s good that you help. And yes, it’s a lot more than I do. But you did say in the post that no, you would have objections to suggestions to reduce the number of abortions.

I’ll have to assume that you misread the question because it seems that in practical terms you do act to reduce abortions. And again, I can only say congratulations.

I don’t seek congratulations from my volunteer work. I volunteer because of my Catholic faith and of my love for Christ. No one in the right mind would say no to the reduction of abortions. My point was that reduction can not be the end goal. The end goal is to end abortion. Yes, it sounds impossible right now, but we need to keep on hoping and to protect innocent babies from certain death. This battle against abortion may very well be raging until Christ comes again. But it’s a battle worth fight for. Even with the reduction, hundreds of thousands of innocent babies are still being killed every year in the US alone. That’s still unacceptable.

As long as the means by which you try to bring that about is not by making it illegal then you have my support.

 

[Rau]

The problem there is your first two words: “I think…” Exactly. That’s what YOU think, not the overwhelming majority. You cannot speak for them.

May as well abandon all analytical thinking and discussion if that’s your basis for abandons ideas.

Rau:

Would not proportion of pregnancies aborted be a better measure?

Apparently not. This is the standard way of measuring it as far as I’m aware.

Do you see the problem with it?

 

[o_mlly]

Written in true Christian charity.

Yes, it is the charitable thing to do. Excommunication is a medicinal tool that is both curative and preventive. Curative for the one who is in error moving them to rethink their position. Preventative in that excommunication protects the community from the scandal and contagion that otherwise would proliferate causing others to fall into the same error.

Why not go a step further and burn them at the stake?

Would that be worse than a “great millstone were put around his neck and he were thrown into the sea” (Mark 9:42)?

 

[o_mlly]

I’ll repeat: I am not aware of ANYONE who wrote or said “killing unborn babies is OK.”

Of course not. Plain language would expose the hideousness of their position. Instead, they invent words like blastocyst, zygote, and embryo to deny the human life that exists.

Either you convince other people they are wrong by means of logic and facts … What are the causes of abortion?

An enabling cause of direct abortions is the misconception that such an act may be morally permissible. One should first disabuse those who think so.

The science cannot know when God infuses a soul. Science admits their ignorance and is of no help.

We do know that that being is alive, growing and can be nothing other than a human being at birth. If that being is alive and growing then that being has a soul. If the soul is anything other than a human soul then God’s simple act must now be made complex without sufficient cause (Ockamm’s Razor). If one cannot know with certainty that their act will not kill an innocent human being then one cannot act.

 

[o_mlly]

YOU and the Church believe “abortion is murder” …

The church teaches that direct abortion is gravely evil. The sin of murder involves the state fo the actor’s intellect and will. We cannot know that state so we cannot teach that direct abortions is murder.

 

[Freddy]

Erikaspirit16:

I’ll repeat: I am not aware of ANYONE who wrote or said “killing unborn babies is OK.”

Of course not. Plain language would expose the hideousness of their position. Instead, they invent words like blastocyst, zygote, and embryo to deny the human life that exists…

I’m not aware of anyone who uses this argument. Can you point us to an example so we can all tell the person who uses it that it’s wrong?

And by the way,.if you do find someone who has used it then they certainly didn’t invent those terms you mentioned to back it up.

 

[o_mlly]

I’m not aware of anyone who uses this argument.

As offered to you before, it seems you should consider widening your friends and reading.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

I’m not aware of anyone who uses this argument.

As offered to you before, it seems you should consider widening your friends and reading.

So you have no examples of someone using this rather ridiculous argument? Certainly not in this forum.