Pew: 77% of Catholics who are Democrats say abortion should be legal

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From what I gather from my own family (we were all brought up Catholic Democrat from our grandparents’ and parents’ tutelage back when the party was more in line with Catholic social teachings; the vast majority of the family have stayed Democrat). What has happened is that most of them have been so faithful to the whole idea of social justice that the ‘turns’ have been presented as ‘still in good standing with the Church’, and unfortunately over the last 50 years with so many of the hierarchy either remaining silent or else proposing ‘seamless garment’ or “who am I to judge’ (not Pope Francis’ words but more the old Mario Cuomo, “I personally won’t shove my beliefs onto others”) along with the truly diabolical emotionalism and ‘testimonies’ and the vicious charges of extremism and the twisting and redefining of doctrine, you have good solid Mass-going Catholics who are absolutely, positively convinced that since nobody is ‘perfect’, and since we can’t judge anybody’s actions since we don’t know their ‘heart’, and since the most important thing is to take care of people and ‘the Democrats’ have ALWAYS done that, it’s perfectly fine to keep supporting Democrats. After all, look how terrible Republicans are. And even if they SAY they’re antiabortion they’ve never done anything, really, and then they lock up children in cages and they hate poor people and they’re racist and sexist and just want to turn the planet into a cesspool. Plus they’re just mean. And they hate women. Etc. Etc.

Most of them don’t even truly carry out the whole thinking because it upsets them; it’s much easier just saying the same comforting mantra and feeling tolerant. Because you know, it’s only the rightists and the Republicans who are hateful and violent and anti everything. They’re so stupid. They have no basis in reality. They want to ignore all the situations and individuals and forbid freedom and love and beauty and kindness. If only they would stop being so hateful Democrats could actually do all the wonders they talk about, instead of having to demonstrate against hate, or racism, or be forced to unfriend and point out all the terrible things Trump and his ilk have done.

Now I’m not saying that Republicans don’t criticise and complain about Democrats and call them vile names as well, and act like jackasses. But we’re asking about how Mass-going Catholics can be comfortable with a Democratic platform that includes abortion as a ‘right’. And since that’s what being discussed, the point is that for most people in the US the whole cultural phenomenon of the Democrat as ‘the party of the people and social justice” appealed to many working class AND wealthier Catholics for decades, and just as many CINO Christmas and Easter Catholics identify as cultural Catholics but reject nearly every dogma, both groups choose to identify as “Democrat” and “Catholic” even if they personally reject huge key points regarding either group. Being a Democrat means more than embracing the whole platform, and being a Catholic means more than ‘accepting all the rules’.

It’s cognitive dissonance and it’s fast reaching a breaking point.
 
Those are really interesting points. Many people have long memories!
My very Jewish family have always been Democrat’s. In spite of all the changes that both parties have undergone, they still remain Democrats. Usually, if asked why…here’s the long memory part…they will point out some Republican from years past that was anti Semitic and thus, still hold it against the Republican Party.

Will that ever change? Beats me. Many have a once burned, twice shy attitude…and the notion that “Jews are Democrats “ and that’s it!
 
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Your response neglected the central issue. You wrote: “It could be possible to affirm Catholic identity and at the same time disagree with some of its teachings. Identity in most human organisations does not mean ‘complete acceptance’”

In matters of doctrinal teachings of the Church, Catholics are to obey them. There is no room to disagree. This is the opposite of your “advice”.
 
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In matters of doctrinal teachings of the Church, Catholics are to obey them.
Yes. Otherwise it would be like telling Jesus: “Yes, I’ll follow you and obey your teachings–except for this one and that one.”
 
In matters of doctrinal teachings of the Church, Catholics are to obey them. There is no room to disagree. This is the opposite of your “advice”.
Yes but does that remove their ability to assert, or feel they have, a ‘Catholic identity’.
 
In other words, are these nominal Catholics who attend Mass once a year and have no real knowledge of the faith? And what, what, what can we do to catechize them?
Nope. They’re Catholics like me who are lifelong practicing Catholics who go to Mass every week. (Someone above gave you a nice graph of weekly church-going Catholics who were pro-choice.) And we read the Catechism where it talks about freedom of religion and freedom of conscience. And we read encyclicals where Pope Francis says that to focus on a single issue (i.e. abortion) is “an ideological error.” And we read actual history that shows the position of the Church changed in 1867. In other words (I know this sounds bizarre in 2020…) fact-based logic.

What can we do to catechize YOU??? Well, for a start, we don’t demonize you. We don’t think you’re going to Hell. We don’t say that you are not “real” Catholics. And so on. Try it out…

Now the interesting bit is coming up in the next few weeks. Because we all know (right?) that the ends do NOT justify the means. So all those Senators who swore up and down that it was the right thing to do to not even hold hearings on Garland in 2016 (When Scalia died in Feb.) are going to suddenly flip and be hypocrites and swear the opposite about Ginsberg who died in late Sept. They’re going to try and confirm her (Amy, of course) ASAP. Because loyalty to Trump is much more important than conscience or consistency of position. And if they do, it’s going to be no-holds-barred from then on, and when the Democrats control both the presidency and the Senate, as Schumer said, “nothing is off the table.”
 
I would agree that they have no real knowledge of the faith or they have chosen to reject it…because they’re really missing something if they think killing unborn babies is ok.
 
Yes but does that remove their ability to assert, or feel they have, a ‘Catholic identity’.
Catholic faith and doctrines come from Christ—not from us. The Catholic faith has been handed down to us. Catholic identity—whatever that means— is not identical to the Catholic faith. Catholics can identify ourselves with “Catholic identity”, but we are to obey the doctrines of the Catholic Church.
 
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So they are just kidding about that “indelible mark” of baptism? Just some sort of joke?
Those who reject some church teaching are placing themselves outside the church. There are 70% of baptized Catholics that do not believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Sorry, that is not a Catholic. When Jesus taught His disciples the teaching on the eucharist and they rejected it and left, would we still consider them followers of Christ? Jesus then said to HIs Apostles, “will you leave too?” Those disciples left Him. Those who reject Church teaching have left Christ. They have put themselves outside the faith.
 
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Those who reject Church teaching have left Christ. They have put themselves outside the faith.
Two quick comments:
  1. So that “indelible mark” thing really is just a hoax? Is that what you’re saying? The “Communion of Saints” that we all say we believe each time we say the Creed is just some Commie propaganda? Really?
  2. I’m going to generalize here, but I think it applies just as well to your post as it does to most posts on this topic. The initial assumption is that the poster somehow KNOWS what Church teaching is, and KNOWS what is morally right and wrong. As I’ve said over and over, almost every issue is not black and white, it’s gray. We certainly can TRY to discern right and wrong, and we can TRY to understand Church teaching. But people like me admit that we don’t “know” anything with perfect certainty.
 
That’s not really relevant to the topic so it isn’t considered.
If people say “they aren’t Catholics” because they disagree with someone’s opinion, that’s very much relevant to the topic.
 
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Two quick comments:
  1. So that “indelible mark” thing really is just a hoax? Is that what you’re saying? The “Communion of Saints” that we all say we believe each time we say the Creed is just some Commie propaganda? Really?
  2. I’m going to generalize here, but I think it applies just as well to your post as it does to most posts on this topic. The initial assumption is that the poster somehow KNOWS what Church teaching is, and KNOWS what is morally right and wrong. As I’ve said over and over, almost every issue is not black and white, it’s gray. We certainly can TRY to discern right and wrong, and we can TRY to understand Church teaching. But people like me admit that we don’t “know” anything with perfect certainty.
Many baptized Catholics will not be saved because they reject Christ. Many things are black and white. Christ’s Church gives us clarity. To say abortion is a gray area is something I disagree with. The Church condemns abortion 100% of time, so I’m not sure where the gray area is.

I try my best to put my faith in Christ and HIs holy church. Christ said many are on the wide road to destruction. He did not say that many are misinformed and on the wide road but they will make it to heaven because of these gray area issues. He said no such thing. I am going to do my best to follow Christ and not the modernization in the church.
 
If people say “they aren’t Catholics” because they disagree with someone’s opinion, that’s very much relevant to the topic.
There are good reasons for doing so and what is meant isn’t that difficult to understand.
 
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Christ’s Church gives us clarity
Ah, but here you go again–no gray areas in Church teaching? I suggest you read the Catechism and a few encyclicals. You are ASSUMING that YOU have clarity. Maybe you do. If so, I’m impressed.
To say abortion is a gray area is something I disagree with. The Church condemns abortion 100% of time, so I’m not sure where the gray area is.
The Church also says “Thou shalt not kill.” And yet there are volumes of gray areas in that commandment. Probably libraries worth. But abortion…surely that is 100%, right? Really? Does EVERYONE share your belief that a fetus at, say two weeks is a person? There’s no debate about that? Everyone agrees? EVERYONE on earth subscribes and is bound by the teachings of the Catholic Church? What about a society where abortion is considered no big thing? Are they all going to Hell? I could go on, but you can make up a long, long list of exceptions–problems if you like–just like you can about ANY issue. It’s simply not black and white. It just isn’t–although I freely admit it might be for some people. But all people? Demonstrably untrue.
I try my best to put my faith in Christ and HIs holy church
Me too.
 
There are good reasons for doing so [i.e. saying baptized Catholics “aren’t Catholic”]
I have no doubt that you and many others in this forum think that. I do not.
what is meant isn’t that difficult to understand.
I think I understand quite well. A group of people think that they have “the Truth” (with a capital ‘T’) and that ipso facto everyone else is “wrong.” To me that’s simply an incredible assertion: “I know the Truth.” Wow. OK then. Give me some of that Kool-Aide, it sounds tasty.
 
Regardless the reason you supplied doesn’t really change anything one way or an other.
 
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