Pew Study: Choosing a New Church or House of Worship

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The alter is THE table so to speak.We gather together around it to receive the Eucharist.Otherwise known as Holy Communion.
Yes, of course. That is what we do now. But what I am saying is that the first Christians used the table for their meal. It wasn’t an altar at all. They ate food and then blessed the bread and wine.

Do you remember Paul speaking about this to the church in Corinth? He had to admonish people for not sharing food with each other, and for those who got drunk before it was time for the blessing of the bread and wine.

With St Lydia’s, I believe they have taken Paul’s admonishment to heart and as far as I know have not had the same difficulties.
 
Christian worship was not purely based on the passover though. It is a synthesis of that and also temple worship. I’d like to see a table that can seat 7000+ in my parish. 😉

So does “waffle church” actually really count as Eucharist? When you advertise something as “Sticky Faith for Friends and Families” I have a really hard time relating that to worship so much as friends getting together to perhaps talk about faith over breakfast. That of course leaves aside Catholic beliefs about who can truly confect the Eucharist.
Waffles and Communion are two separate rituals, from my understanding. First Eucharist and then waffles. Both around the table, tho.

And you never know, with things going the way they are between the Catholics and the Lutherans, there might just be a joint Consecration at St Lydia’s!
 
There is a difference between a social gathering such as a meal and the unique corporate gathering united with the real presence of Christ, celebrating the re-presentation of his sacrifice.

A prayerful meal at a table is focused on the people gathered around. Which is wonderful, but the Mass is something more.
 
There is a difference between a social gathering such as a meal and the unique corporate gathering united with the real presence of Christ, celebrating the re-presentation of his sacrifice.

A prayerful meal at a table is focused on the people gathered around. Which is wonderful, but the Mass is something more.
If the Eucharist - with bread and wine - is consecrated as the Body and Blood of Christ, then it is the same.

This is what is being discussed from the study - style of worship.
 
I would tend to agree, but I think many people try to compress community into a 90 minute period around worship services. I know a couple non-denominational churches where they have a coffee bar where everyone gathers for 30 minutes before the worship service, they then take their drinks into the worship space and then have more social time after wards before perhaps having additional bible studies after a 30 minute break. Basically people come and go throughout a 4 hour period. Some go to worship, others go to part or all of the bible studies and some are there for all 4 hours. The church becomes a community hub on Sundays and Wednesday nights.

In my experience, Catholic parishes tend not do the everything over 4 hours type of deal. Part of that is that many large parishes (the only type in my area), have Mass scheduled between 1.5 - 2 hours apart from 7am - 1pm on Sundays. Because you might have 5 or more masses each Sunday, the sub communities are not always worshiping together at the same Mass. Because of that the community tends to take place outside the church proper. In other words worship is done in the church proper, but community is done outside the church.

One of the differences I see between Catholic parishes and other churches is around the church/parish providing the community structure itself. I have friends where they have a 2 page list of activities that you can sign up for, with dates, times, etc. published by the church. My parish has a number of activities going on all the time, but they are not always directly “sponsored” by the parish. While there might be 1 “official” bible study going on at the parish, there are likely 8 or 10 other small group bible studies going on at individual parishioners houses. In other words the parish tends to worship in a large community, but the social aspect is often through small group communities.

I think much of that comes down to staffing though. A local non-denom church near us has a smaller congregation than my parish, but has something like 10 or 12 paid ministers on staff. This is in addition to their office staff. We have 4 ministers [2 priests and 2 deacons], but perhaps 7 if you include the choir director, DRE, and High School Youth leader. Outside of maybe the High School leader, non of them are specifically there to build community. All the community is from volunteers and as such they don’t tend to do it through the church as much as an extension of the church.
**
Long and short, I think the challenge for some in the Catholic scheme, is that the parish is not the clearing house for community in the same way that it is in other types of churches. That means you need to put forth more effort into getting plugged into community. It doesn’t mean it isn’t there, but it rather a difference in where the structure is based. And lest someone claim that this is uniquely a Catholic “problem”, this is very similar to how things were done in the Presbyterian church that I grew up in. Worship was not an extension of the community, but was first around worship with multiple sub communities that occasionally worshiped together.**
Maybe this hits on a possible solution for both Catholics and other liturgical Christians?

I mean my own church is liturgical as well, yet has also adapted itself to an extent to that more community centric aspect in the times around the services as you mention from the non-denom church. For example our main masses are at 8 and 10:30, not atypical mass times in my experience be it Catholic or Protestant. After the 8 am service and a quick post mass coffee “hour” around 9:15 there are several fellowship, forum and bible study groups that all get going at once. Parishioners at the 8 am mass are informed about them in advance via the bulletin which is sent out in advance to the entire congregation on Thursday night via web and email (or they can view the paper one given out at mass). 10:30 parishioners also are informed in advance via the e-bulletins and many will come to the fellowship, forum, and/or bible studies in advance of going to their chosen service at 10:30. Larger and more sporadic events like BBQ’s or brunches are then held between the end of the 10:30 mass (typically around 11:45) and the Spanish service at 1 pm.

The forums and one of the bible study are typically run by the clergy (occasionally guest preachers run the forum as well), the fellowship groups are typically run by the laity. It may not be a full 4 hours as you mention. But between getting to mass a bit early and socializing, mass, coffee “hour” and one of the fellowship groups you can spend a good 3 hours on the church campus every Sunday on a typical Sunday if you so choose.
 
If the Eucharist - with bread and wine - is consecrated as the Body and Blood of Christ, then it is the same.

This is what is being discussed from the study - style of worship.
I’m sorry I am confused with all the talk about meals with waffles and the link showing people gathered around for a meal.
Yes of course the consecrated bread wine is the Eucharist.
 
Luckily I am having a good day, so I won’t rise to the bait. 😉
Just a bit of humor. But there is serious movement between Lutherans and Catholics, and as we remember from earlier this year, the Lutherans invited to the Vatican then received communion afterwards. There may be joint sacramental events in our lifetime. We’ll see what happens after this year’s commemoration of the Reformation and all the joint services around the world.

(All this sidetracking because St Lydia’s pastor is ordained Lutheran.)
 
I would tend to agree, but I think many people try to compress community into a 90 minute period around worship services. I know a couple non-denominational churches where they have a coffee bar where everyone gathers for 30 minutes before the worship service, they then take their drinks into the worship space and then have more social time after wards before perhaps having additional bible studies after a 30 minute break. Basically people come and go throughout a 4 hour period. Some go to worship, others go to part or all of the bible studies and some are there for all 4 hours. The church becomes a community hub on Sundays and Wednesday nights.

In my experience, Catholic parishes tend not do the everything over 4 hours type of deal. Part of that is that many large parishes (the only type in my area), have Mass scheduled between 1.5 - 2 hours apart from 7am - 1pm on Sundays. Because you might have 5 or more masses each Sunday, the sub communities are not always worshiping together at the same Mass. Because of that the community tends to take place outside the church proper. In other words worship is done in the church proper, but community is done outside the church.
One of the Catholic parishes near me has 4 Masses on Sundays between 745 and noon with about only 30 mins inbetween the end of one and the beginning of the next and members and newcomers alike can still fellowship while drinking coffee and eating doughnuts after each.
 
Christian worship was not purely based on the passover though. It is a synthesis of that and also temple worship. I’d like to see a table that can seat 7000+ in my parish. 😉
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Do you have 7,000 people at one service? or even every Sunday? That’s a huge number of people! How many clergy are on your staff?
 
Have you ever seen a Mass in Rome? 7,000 is nothing. What’s your point?
Is 7,000 typical for one Mass in a US parish? The ones I know here in San Francisco have a couple of hundred at the most.
 
Waffles and Communion are two separate rituals, from my understanding. First Eucharist and then waffles. Both around the table, tho.

And you never know, with things going the way they are between the Catholics and the Lutherans, there might just be a joint Consecration at St Lydia’s!
Kind of flies in the face of Redemptionis Sacramentum:
[77.] The celebration of Holy Mass is not to be inserted in any way into the setting of a common meal, nor joined with this kind of banquet. Mass is not to be celebrated without grave necessity on a dinner table[159] nor in a dining room or banquet hall, nor in a room where food is present, nor in a place where the participants during the celebration itself are seated at tables. If out of grave necessity Mass must be celebrated in the same place where eating will later take place, there is to be a clear interval of time between the conclusion of Mass and the beginning of the meal, and ordinary food is not to be set before the faithful during the celebration of Mass.
159 refers us to ACTA APOSTOLICAE SEDIS 1970 #9 p. 702 which says the same thing.

Sadly, I was not aware of that when my parish priest at the time offered to celebrate Mass in our home at the kitchen table (followed by lunch) so that our oldest child could receive her First Communion at home.
 
(…)In my experience, Catholic parishes tend not do the everything over 4 hours type of deal. Part of that is that many large parishes (the only type in my area), have Mass scheduled between 1.5 - 2 hours apart from 7am - 1pm on Sundays. Because you might have 5 or more masses each Sunday, the sub communities are not always worshiping together at the same Mass. Because of that the community tends to take place outside the church proper. In other words worship is done in the church proper, but community is done outside the church.(…)
That is very true. There are only two Sunday Masses in my parish, one Saturday evening and one Sunday morning. We only have 1200-1400 parishioners, of which about 250 attend regularly. I’ve been in the parish 19 years and go mainly to the Saturday Mass because that’s when I read. There are still regularly attending parishioners that are nothing but a name on an envelope for me. I can tell you what they give regularly but I could walk on them and not know who they are.
 
Do you have 7,000 people at one service? or even every Sunday? That’s a huge number of people! How many clergy are on your staff?
That’s the number of registered parishioners. By population, my parish has about 14-15,000 Catholics (obviously not all practicing). At each of the 6 Sunday masses we have approximately 650 people. The largest mass has about 800 and on Easter we have multiple masses going on at both the parish (approximately 900) and a county event center with another 8-900. The parish has 2 priests and 2 deacons. They are occasionally helped by a retired priest and deacon.

So even if there are multiple meals it needs to be a table that would seat about 900-1000 at a pop. Still much larger than the 10 or 20 I see in the pictures of the dinner church.
 
Is 7,000 typical for one Mass in a US parish? The ones I know here in San Francisco have a couple of hundred at the most.
Most of the parishes in my deanery average between 5-700 per mass. My own parish has seating for just under 850 in the nave, with another 150 in overflow in the narthex. The largest parish in my diocese has seating for maybe 1100 in the nave and could accommodate another 2-300 in the narthex.

So no we aren’t talking 7000 per mass, but in my area 1000 per mass is not unheard of. If you compressed it into a single worship service each Sunday, like many nondenominational’s do in my area, and you’d be looking on the order of 3-4000 in the parishes outside of the city core.
 
I love that mass is the same everywhere we go, even if the music or the environment is different…the readings and liturgy are the same, even if it is in a different tongue 👍
That’s not really true. Not every Catholic Church uses the Roman Rite. Some use the Byzantine rite, Armenian, Coptic, and Chaldean/Syriac rites in the eastern Catholic churches, so they use different liturgies entirely.

And again, not all Catholic Churches are on the Gregorian calendar. Some use the Julian and revised Julian, so all Catholic churches do not have the same readings everyday.
 
Most of the parishes in my deanery average between 5-700 per mass. My own parish has seating for just under 850 in the nave, with another 150 in overflow in the narthex. The largest parish in my diocese has seating for maybe 1100 in the nave and could accommodate another 2-300 in the narthex.

So no we aren’t talking 7000 per mass, but in my area 1000 per mass is not unheard of. If you compressed it into a single worship service each Sunday, like many nondenominational’s do in my area, and you’d be looking on the order of 3-4000 in the parishes outside of the city core.
I’ll do you one better. St. Mary’s Catholic Church in Dubai, UAE has over 350,000 members, and Masses/Divine Liturgies in over 12 languages every day : religion.info/english/articles/article_595.shtml#.V8Y8EctOnqA

The Catholic Church of Our Lady of the Rosary in Doha, Qatar has 250,000 members.
 
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