Philadelphia archdiocese to close 48 Catholic schools

[incense]

I believe there’s a mystical thing happening here too. It’s time to decide where you stand, one side or the other. Being luke warm will not get you the graces you need to make it through the times.

(But don’t forget that the economy is so bad, a lot of people can’t afford to send their kids to private school and pay public school taxes. Yes, I know there’s discounts. But that’s other people deciding how much of your own money you deserve to keep.)

 

[incense]

I believe litigating the money out of the Church is what got the Bishops’ attention.

I don’t know about that. Most of the molestations were in the past, and policies had changed to recognize that molesters could not be cured by psychiatry. Obviously, there were some exceptions. In my diocese, the Bishop had long handled them appropriately, paying for treatment.

"In 2004, at least 1,092 allegations of sexual abuse were made against at least 756 Catholic priests and deacons in the United States. Most of the incidents occurred between 1965 and 1974.

Although there were reported acts of sexual abuse of minors in every year, the incidence of reported abuse increased by several orders of magnitude in the 1960s and 1970s. There was, for example, a more than sixfold increase in the number of reported acts of abuse of males aged 11 to 17 between the 1950s and the 1970s. After peaking in the 1970s, the number of incidents decreased through the 1980s and 1990s even more sharply than the incidence rate had increased in the 1960s and 1970s.

The response to the allegations of child sexual abuse by the bishops, major superiors and other priests who were presented with the problem was first shaped by the timing of the allegation. When all allegations are considered, only one in four allegations was made within 10 years of the incident that gave rise to the allegation. Half of all allegations were made between 10 and 30 years after the incident and the remaining 25% were reported more than 30 years after the incident.[62]

In 2004, according to the US John Jay report, nearly 40% of priests accused to have committed sexual abuse participated in psychiatric treatment programs. The remaining priests did not undergo abuse counseling because allegations of sexual abuse were only made after their death. The more allegations made against a priest, the more likely he was to participate in treatment.[15] Some bishops repeatedly moved offending priests from parish to parish after abuse counseling, where they still had personal contact with children.[3]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

 

[PaulinVA]

I don’t know about that. Most of the molestations were in the past, and policies had changed to recognize that molesters could not be cured by psychiatry. Obviously, there were some exceptions. In my diocese, the Bishop had long handled them appropriately, paying for treatment.

The response to the allegations of child sexual abuse by the bishops, major superiors and other priests who were presented with the problem was first shaped by the timing of the allegation. When all allegations are considered, only one in four allegations was made within 10 years of the incident that gave rise to the allegation. Half of all allegations were made between 10 and 30 years after the incident and the remaining 25% were reported more than 30 years after the incident

As a Catholic in the seventies, I can say that it was known that priests were being shuttled around from parish to parish after complaints about molestation. My wife and I, who grew up in different areas, remember things in a similar fashion.

I do not want to rehash the subject here in this thread - suffice to say that the sex abuse crisis is one of the factors of declining Catholic school enrollment.

 

[Brendan]

I do not want to rehash the subject here in this thread - suffice to say that the sex abuse crisis is one of the factors of declining Catholic school enrollment.

For us, I would have to say that the factors were FAR more related to cost and lack of convienience.

Catholic schools just are not geared towards larger families like they were in the past. When I was in school in the 70’s, not only was tuition substantially less than it is now ( in equivelent dollars), but there was a family rate.

When our kids were in Catholic school, there was no such thing as a family rate. The best the school offered was a 10% discount for children after the first.

In addition, the preschooler, the kindegartner and the 2nd grader all had different start and end times. This was convienient for parents dropping off 1 or two kids, as it split up the line of cars going into school.

But it played havoc on my wife’s schedule, as she was making 4-6 trips to school each day, and trying to fit in nap times for the baby on top of that.

So we started homeschooling. It was easier on my wife and substantially less expensive.

I think the biggest factors are more along the lines of declining family sizes and greater use of lay teachers ( who require salaries)

 

[KCT]

The report produced by the blue ribbon commission is online. It looks at the problems facing the AoP Catholic school system and makes recommendations for turning things around.

One of the problems is that the pool of potential students is lower. Not only is the overall population down, but Catholic families are having less children. For example, from 1990 to
2009 infant baptisms in the Archdiocese declined from 21,600 to 11,700 or some
46 percent.

I agree that there are fewer students, but I also submit that many parents (certainly not all) are not terribly concerned with the religious upbringing of their children. People make choices about how to spend their money, and Catholic schools and Sunday Religious Ed are often not at the top of the list.

 

[iloveangels]

I agree that there are fewer students, but I also submit that many parents (certainly not all) are not terribly concerned with the religious upbringing of their children. People make choices about how to spend their money, and Catholic schools and Sunday Religious Ed are often not at the top of the list.

That’s true. I’m a Catholic convert and I used to teach in a Catholic high school. Catholic high schools get treated like prep schools. Catholics in general, in school and out, are remarkably uninterested in learning their faith. They’re more interested in other subjects at which catholic schools excel, giving their students a good shot at college. In general, Catholic school students and their parents are more interested in the certificate or the grade than learning something about the faith for that reason. In a smaller proportion, they’re avoiding the public schools but don’t want to take the time and effort to home-school or feel there’s something socially wrong with home-schooling.

Even after school many Catholics don’t have a vibrant interest in their faith. Many adult Catholics have had no formation since their own school years, and getting them to attend classes is like pulling teeth. Very few people show up, and the ones that do show up for a class are the very same ones that show up for every class, and the rest you never see.

Also at many Catholic schools, a fair percentage of the students plus part of the teaching staff aren’t even Catholic, which enhances the perception that Catholicism isn’t what the school is about. [This is actually one reason to close some Catholic schools that Catholic students no longer attend, ie city schools in most cases.]

 

[Irish_Eyes_826]

I just graduated from a Catholic high school this past June. Yes, the curriculum was college-preparatory, but there was also a very strong theology program throughout all four years. I know that many of the kids at my school were very interested in religion and faith. I started Catholic for primarily academic reasons, but I and my parents definitely grew to appreciate the religious aspects of Catholic schools.

I don’t think it matters that not non-Catholics are a part of the school. My school had many students who were Protestant, Jewish, or of other religions. They were very respectful of Catholicism and many have become interested in Catholicism. I think it made religion classes better when we could discuss difference perspectives on religion.

I think the biggest problem with Catholic schools today is that they are just so expensive. I know my family struggled to send my brothers and me them, but it was well worth the sacrifice IMHO. I just worry that my kids won’t get the opportunity to attend Catholic schools because they will all be closed or too expensive.

 

[iloveangels]

I just graduated from a Catholic high school this past June. Yes, the curriculum was college-preparatory, but there was also a very strong theology program throughout all four years. I know that many of the kids at my school were very interested in religion and faith. I started Catholic for primarily academic reasons, but I and my parents definitely grew to appreciate the religious aspects of Catholic schools.

I don’t think it matters that not non-Catholics are a part of the school. My school had many students who were Protestant, Jewish, or of other religions. They were very respectful of Catholicism and many have become interested in Catholicism. I think it made religion classes better when we could discuss difference perspectives on religion.

I think the biggest problem with Catholic schools today is that they are just so expensive. I know my family struggled to send my brothers and me them, but it was well worth the sacrifice IMHO. I just worry that my kids won’t get the opportunity to attend Catholic schools because they will all be closed or too expensive.

Expense is a very big problem, yes. It costs money to run a school and lay teachers are expensive, even though they’re paid a lot less than public school teachers.
Irish, I don’t think it matters if a few of the kids are non-Catholic. I went to Catholic school for a year in the 8th grade before I was Catholic! A little lost pagan kid will often convert if surrounded by great Catholic families. However, I do think it’s a problem if more than about 10-15% of the class is non-Catholic. It does water down the commitment to the Church very much and the kids lose the point very quickly, and some teachers might also, especially the non-catholic ones or the more “trendy” ones.*

 

[Kerry77]

I have been following this story with great interest, as my children are in a Catholic school, and one that I suspect will be on the chopping block sooner rather than later.

I am so sympathetic with the families who are losing their school, my heart breaks for them.

On the other hand, I am also sympathetic to the plight of the Archdiocese. It’s just a lose-lose situation for everyone.

I can only speak for my own parish school, but here’s what I think. We are all to blame when we don’t try to send our children there. The more of us that use these schools, the more viable they will be.

I live in a very affluent town and there are many many families who could easily use our parish school but choose to use the public school to save a few thousand dollars a year. I note that the parish is affluent, because I am well aware that a few thousand dollars makes a huge difference depending on what your income is.

We have used public schools as well, and there is no comparison. As watered-down as some of us may feel the Catholic schools have become, there is a big difference between a school that teaches children about God, lets the children pray, takes them to Mass, and a public school, where you can’t even send in a lousy candy cane, lest you be accused of oppressing someone.

 

[Kerry77]

As to the scandals, it’s NOT about that. If you look at the schools, many of them are half-empty from their capacity. This is just about stopping the bleeding, and trying to do it all in one year, rather than having the drip-drip-drip of closings every year, stirring up the anger and sadness year after year. I think it’s better for a diocese to err on the side of over-closing every ten years, rather than closing two or three or four schools a year.

 

[Kerry77]

Well it’s actually quite true. At least in parts of New Jersey.
My newphews grade school, they were not allowed to wish anyone a “merry christmas”.
That phrase was banned from public school along with the usual religous things like God, Jesus, etc. because it might offend muslims or non-believers.

Also, look at the public school system or should I say “indoctrination facilities” in Oakland California where they have “gender coaches” for students so they can decide which gender they want to be.

oh and it gets better…Phialdelphia…no spelling tests, no number drills, and defenitely for teachers…NO MARKING WRONG ANSWERS IN RED. It could be offensive.

Tell me again how public schools are so much better???

I totally agree. People are kidding themselves. Even in the best public school systems, if you can’t talk about God, why are you sending your kid there? Religion is not a hobby.

And don’t even get me started on schools giving out condoms, taking your daughter to get an abortion, the list goes on. Anyone who thinks there is no difference between a public school and even the most average Catholic school boggles my mind.

 

[Kerry77]

Public schools don’t see children as spoiled pieces of meat or bits of gristle, something to “gag on.” With the exception of a few, well-litigated exceptions, we take all comers, both because we’re required to but also because the vast majority of public school professionals see their jobs as both professions and vocations.

This veteran public school teacher suspects that the schools who do absorb the children from the closed Catholic schools will welcome them for their discipline, strong family structures (because in disintegrating families there’s rarely the wherewithal for private schools), and work ethic. Public school administrators will carve out classroom space for them and do their utmost to get them the resources they need, everything from teachers to textbooks to desks to paraprofessional support services. And public school teachers will welcome their new kiddos, and if they’re not provided with the budget buy learning supplies for them, they’ll do what every public school teacher I’ve ever know does: go to Wal-Mart and spend their own money to purchase what they and their students need to teach and learn.

Luna

With all due respect, because I truly do respect anyone who actually teaches, whether public or private, I believe public school administrators and the unions are secretly cheering when Catholic schools close. They don’t mind overcrowding. More customers for them. Then they will complain and complain until they to build a new school, hire more teachers, expand their monopoly on our society’s education dollars. And we, as Catholics, keep letting it happen, so shame on us.

 

[incense]

. And we, as Catholics, keep letting it happen, so shame on us.

And we let it happen by agreeing to that nonsense that government money cant’ be spent by religious institutions. Like just now with the adoption centers in Illinois. Or paying taxes for schools and then again for our Catholic school. We need to stand up for our rights and our children’s rights. We need to stand up for our Catholic brothers and sisters who can’t afford to pay the taxes and tuition too.

Let the money follow the children.

 

[Kerry77]

And we let it happen by agreeing to that nonsense that government money cant’ be spent by religious institutions. Like just now with the adoption centers in Illinois. Or paying taxes for schools and then again for our Catholic school. We need to stand up for our rights and our children’s rights. We need to stand up for our Catholic brothers and sisters who can’t afford to pay the taxes and tuition too.

Let the money follow the children.

Exactly. We have no one to blame but ourselves. As I said, my heart breaks for the families affected by these closings, I know it is awful. But I also hate how it automatically turns into hating on the diocese and the bishop and bringing up the scandals for the 1000th time. I lived in Philly, and the truth is you can’t send your children to most of the public schools there. So I understand the pain when your refuge is taken away from you. But again, shame on us, as American Catholics, for letting it get to this point.