Philippine priest tells supporters of contraceptive bill to leave Mass

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Thanks! I forgot to mention that part of the reason they want to push this is the international funding that was promised for such a program. Unfortunately, as with most 3rd world countries, the government is corrupt. A big chunk of that funding will only go to a senator’s next Audi A8 or BMW 7-series.
 
‘And Peter said unto her: Why have you agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? Behold the feet of them who have buried thy husband are at the door, and they shall carry thee out. Immediately she fell down before his feet, and gave up the ghost. And the young men coming in, found her dead: and carried her out, and buried her by her husband.’

Acts 5:9-10

If this were the days of the early church, the days of the Apostles and their nearest successors, they’d be getting off inconceivably lightly with merely being sent out from the mass.

Perhaps they’d get away with being placed with the ‘weepers’ the fourth stage of penitents, permitted to weep outside the church in sackcloth and ashes… after awhile then one was allowed to enter the church, placed in the rear, and continually kneel while others were allowed to stand… perhaps at last one might be allowed to mingle with the congregation, though of course, not receive Holy Communion.

Perhaps after a number of years they’d be allowed to receive Communion once again.

That is of course, if they repented. If they didn’t repent, being a weeper would be getting off lightly. They wouldn’t be considered Christian anymore, so they’d have no place at all.

Of course, the early days of the Church weren’t too much different from times not too long past in many respects… I read an Irish penitential having 12 years penance of bread and water for a mother’s destruction of her own child.

But still the trend over time was weakening of these things. … Then came 1960 A.D.
👍
 
Its an interesting issue; so this 1 priest in his wisdom did what several very highly respected and honerable Popes would not do. He took it on himself to basically excomunicate these people from his Church. Will he be setting up his own soon.

Whether I agree or disagree with the priest on this is smacks of arrogance and is this now going to be the norm. The Church does not trust Christ to deal with sinners so they will try to keep them away from him.

So who is he going to ban next?

Shall we go through the whole gambit of sins. So the new Church teaching is going to be let he who is without sin enter the Church .

:eek:
 
It would have been better if the priest had firmly told everyone there that those who support that Bill are heretics for rejecting the Church teaching, that they must not receive Communion, that they are in a state of mortal sin and if they die in that state unrepentent then they are going to Hell.
 
Its an interesting issue; so this 1 priest in his wisdom did what several very highly respected and honerable Popes would not do. He took it on himself to basically excomunicate these people from his Church. Will he be setting up his own soon.

Whether I agree or disagree with the priest on this is smacks of arrogance and is this now going to be the norm. The Church does not trust Christ to deal with sinners so they will try to keep them away from him.

So who is he going to ban next?

Shall we go through the whole gambit of sins. So the new Church teaching is going to be let he who is without sin enter the Church .

:eek:
Sinners are not getting thrown out of the church. Those who reject the church are getting thrown out. He did not throw out people who may have used contraception and are remorseful for it, he threw out those who willfully reject what the church teaches and subsitute their own teaching.
 
‘And Peter said unto her: Why have you agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? Behold the feet of them who have buried thy husband are at the door, and they shall carry thee out. Immediately she fell down before his feet, and gave up the ghost. And the young men coming in, found her dead: and carried her out, and buried her by her husband.’

Acts 5:9-10

If this were the days of the early church, the days of the Apostles and their nearest successors, they’d be getting off inconceivably lightly with merely being sent out from the mass.

Perhaps they’d get away with being placed with the ‘weepers’ the fourth stage of penitents, permitted to weep outside the church in sackcloth and ashes… after awhile then one was allowed to enter the church, placed in the rear, and continually kneel while others were allowed to stand… perhaps at last one might be allowed to mingle with the congregation, though of course, not receive Holy Communion.

Perhaps after a number of years they’d be allowed to receive Communion once again.

That is of course, if they repented. If they didn’t repent, being a weeper would be getting off lightly. They wouldn’t be considered Christian anymore, so they’d have no place at all.

Of course, the early days of the Church weren’t too much different from times not too long past in many respects… I read an Irish penitential having 12 years penance of bread and water for a mother’s destruction of her own child.

But still the trend over time was weakening of these things. … Then came 1960 A.D.
👍👍
 
This is ridiculous. The Church is for all of God’s children. God will be there for anyone. Maybe they should kick out all who have sinned as well.
 
This is ridiculous. The Church is for all of God’s children. God will be there for anyone. Maybe they should kick out all who have sinned as well.
Sure it is, but if dissidents are the mix, the community becomes exactly that, a mix. If we all don’t believe and accept the same thing, we are not united. And to tolerate dissidence is to give it weight.
 
I can see where all of you come from and I respect that, but there is actually more uses for birth control pills than to prevent pregnancies. 😉

Also, the church allows protestants who are curious about the church stay for mass, yet I don’t see them getting dismissed.
 
Also, what if those people were against using contraceptive, but they didn’t feel like they should be the ones who decide whether or not other people use them? Maybe some of the people wanted other people to decide for themselves if they wanted to commit a sin or not.
 
Solid priest. Now if we could just have a pope who would excommunicate 80% of the church over this matter we’d get somewhere.
Yeah, but then those who complain that their church’s are practically empty will complain even louder…
 
He should not have told them to leave Mass. Missing Sunday Mass is a mortal sin and he could be potentially culpable for encouraging them to compound one mortal sin (RH bill support) with another (missing Sunday Mass).

He should just have used that same force to tell them to not approach for Communion.
 
He should not have told them to leave Mass. Missing Sunday Mass is a mortal sin and he could be potentially culpable for encouraging them to compound one mortal sin (RH bill support) with another (missing Sunday Mass).

He should just have used that same force to tell them to not approach for Communion.
I think he just took the long way of telling people they are hypocrites for going against the Church and then coming to Mass like everything is okay.

Again, the priest didn’t single anyone out. He made a sweeping comment and people by their own admission left.
 
Thanks! I forgot to mention that part of the reason they want to push this is the international funding that was promised for such a program. Unfortunately, as with most 3rd world countries, the government is corrupt. A big chunk of that funding will only go to a senator’s next Audi A8 or BMW 7-series.
Well, the Philippine President did say that “he’ll risk excommunication for legislation”. And, we all know what follows when God is removed from the equation.
 
This is SSPX doctrine.
Not all Traditionalists are SSPX. For the record, the priest in question is FSSP. Fr. Chad Ripperger, FSSP, Professor of Moral and Dogmatic Theology at the FSSP seminary in Nebraska, has also written and preached on this topic. His sermons can be found here (there are two specifically on contraception and NFP).
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Sirach2:
The Church permits NFP, and not only in extreme cases, such as of danger of death. That is a false statement.
Pope Pius XII:
It is necessary first of all to consider two hypotheses. If the application of that theory implies that husband and wife may use their matrimonial right even during the days of natural sterility no objection can be made. In this case they do not hinder or jeopardize in any way the consummation of the natural act and its ulterior natural consequences. It is exactly in this that the application of the theory, of which We are speaking, differs essentially from the abuse already mentioned, which consists in the perversion of the act itself. If, instead, husband and wife go further, that is, limiting the conjugal act exclusively to those periods, then their conduct must be examined more closely.

Here again we are faced with two hypotheses. If, one of the parties contracted marriage with the intention of limiting the matrimonial right itself to the periods of sterility, and not only its use, in such a manner that during the other days the other party would not even have the right to ask for the debt, than this would imply an essential defect in the marriage consent, which would result in the marriage being invalid, because the right deriving from the marriage contract is a permanent, uninterrupted and continuous right of husband and wife with respect to each other.

However if the limitation of the act to the periods of natural sterility does not refer to the right itself but only to the use of the right, the validity of the marriage does not come up for discussion. Nonetheless, the moral lawfulness of such conduct of husband and wife should be affirmed or denied according as their intention to observe constantly those periods is or is not based on sufficiently morally sure motives. The mere fact that husband and wife do not offend the nature of the act and are even ready to accept and bring up the child, who, notwithstanding their precautions, might be born, would not be itself sufficient to guarantee the rectitude of their intention and the unobjectionable morality of their motives.

The reason is that marriage obliges the partners to a state of life, which even as it confers certain rights so it also imposes the accomplishment of a positive work concerning the state itself. In such a case, the general principle may be applied that a positive action may be omitted if grave motives, independent of the good will of those who are obliged to perform it, show that its performance is inopportune, or prove that it may not be claimed with equal right by the petitioner – in this case, mankind.

The matrimonial contract, which confers on the married couple the right to satisfy the inclination of nature, constitutes them in a state of life, namely, the matrimonial state. Now, on married couples, who make use of the specific act of their state, nature and the Creator impose the function of providing for the preservation of mankind. This is the characteristic service which gives rise to the peculiar value of their state, the “bonum prolis”. The individual and society, the people and the State, the Church itself, depend for their existence, in the order established by God, on fruitful marriages. Therefore, to embrace the matrimonial state, to use continually the faculty proper to such a state and lawful only therein, and, at the same time, to avoid its primary duty without a grave reason, would be a sin against the very nature of married life.

Serious motives, such as those which not rarely arise from medical, eugenic, economic and social so-called “indications,” may exempt husband and wife from the obligatory, positive debt for a long period or even for the entire period of matrimonial life. From this it follows that the observance of the natural sterile periods may be lawful, from the moral viewpoint: and it is lawful in the conditions mentioned. If, however, according to a reasonable and equitable judgment, there are no such grave reasons either personal or deriving from exterior circumstances, the will to avoid the fecundity of their union, while continuing to satisfy to tile full their sensuality, can only be the result of a false appreciation of life and of motives foreign to sound ethical principles.
Pope Paul VI:
In relation to physical, economic, psychological and social conditions, responsible parenthood is exercised, either by the deliberate and generous decision to raise a numerous family, or by the decision, made for grave motives and with due respect for the moral law, to avoid for the time being, or even for an indeterminate period, a new birth.

If, then, there are serious motives to space out births, which derive from the physical or psychological conditions of husband and wife, or from external conditions, the Church teaches that it is then licit to take into account the natural rhythms immanent in the generative functions, for the use of marriage in the infecund periods only, and in this way to regulate birth without offending the moral principles which have been recalled earlier
 
Sinners are not getting thrown out of the church. Those who reject the church are getting thrown out. He did not throw out people who may have used contraception and are remorseful for it, he threw out those who willfully reject what the church teaches and subsitute their own teaching.
The did not substitute any teaching of their own on the Church; I dont recall any catechisms being recalled to put in the new teachings. This action is more in keeping with some Thundering Protestant Preacher who will be leading his own schismatic Branch soon than of someone who loves his flock. He clearly feels he cannot persuade them through the Scripture and with patience and Love and time; and does not trust God too so he just acts like a Tyrant instead.

Lets make him Pope as clearly all the rest have got this wrong; or did I miss the mass excommunication. 😊
 
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Sirach2:
The Church permits NFP, and not only in extreme cases, such as of danger of death. That is a false statement.
Pilgrim I still do not see anything in your citations that denies the approved practice of NFP or that states that it can only be used for “very real danger of death.” I repeat, you are not submitting the true concept of NFP. Moreover, you are quoting applications that refer to the marital debt rather than NFP. “The matrimonial contract, which confers on the married couple the right to satisfy the* inclination of nature*…”

I share this article from Zenit in Rome, which represents the mind of the Church more accurately.
…there is a popular, although erroneous, belief among some Catholic couples that NFP is “second best,” and that if a couple is seriously Catholic, they will not self-consciously plan the children they conceive, but simply “let God send them.” I do not mean to offend anyone’s practices, but this “come what may” attitude is found nowhere in Catholic teaching on procreation in the last 150 years. There is no decision more serious to a Catholic couple than whether or not to participate with God in bringing a new human person into existence.

John Paul II says the choice whether or not to have more children “must not be motivated by selfishness or carelessness;” and then states: “When there is a reason not to procreate, this choice is permissible and may even be necessary.” What kind of “reason” renders permissible the choice not to procreate and hence to use NFP to avoid pregnancy? Pope Paul VI helps us answer this question. In “Humanae Vitae” (No. 16) he teaches:
“If therefore there are ‘iusta causae’ for spacing births, arising from the physical or psychological condition of husband or wife, or from external circumstances, the Church teaches that married people may then take advantage of the natural cycles immanent in the reproductive system and engage in marital intercourse only during those times that are infertile.”
The Latin term “iustae causae” is sometimes translated “well grounded reasons,” sometimes “serious motives”, and sometimes “grave reasons.” But the term is simply the plural of “iusta causa,” which literally translates "just cause."
Your translation of “just cause” as “a very real danger of death” is extreme in its application, and is not applicable to consider in this discussion.

[Besides, it’s off topic.]
 
My initial reaction to this priest was somewhat uncharitable but with hindsight while I cannot approve or dissapprove of what he did as I have not all the facts but I can understand the Priests frustration when confronted by something he has made a stand against in conscience and seeing this action as at least something he can do to take controll at least in his Church. I’m sure at heart a man with this much conviction to place himself at the front in the media limelight must be very good. But we need to be carefull of setting precidents like this in the Church.

Pray for our priests ; bishops and the pope as in times like these they need so much help to keep them strong in their faith and patient in trying to lead such a skittish flock and wisdom to help lead the flock through the snares and traps of this modern world. 🙂
 
Well, the Philippine President did say that “he’ll risk excommunication for legislation”. And, we all know what follows when God is removed from the equation.
Sadly, his mom is one of the most religious public figures in recent history. She was also president and was installed through the bloodless revolution called “People Power”. The revolution was partly organized and helped by then-Manila Archbishop Jaime Cardinal Sin. Nuns with rosaries were stopping tanks on the streets. A monument was erected for the Virgin Mary at one of the sites of the revolution because everyone knows she interceded for the Filipino people. Cory also received a rosary from Sister Lucia who said the rosary was blessed by Mother Mary herself.

newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20080406-128676/Corys-rosary-Made-by-Lucia-blessed-by-Mary-herself

Sad that her son turned out this way. But then again, her daughter is a movie and TV celebrity who’s very public with her affairs with married men. Goes to show a devout and staunchly Catholic woman doesn’t mean her children will be the same.
 
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