Philosophers, What's Wrong with This

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Stephen Hawking thinks that new, ever improving, " thinking " machines will make humans obsolete, will be the end of mankind. So reports the BBC News. So why is Hawking wrong?

bbc.com/news/technology-30290540

Linus2nd
 
Not a Philosopher but IMO it’s completely logical that with advances in science/technology men will be tempted this way. Jesus will never allow us to change from the human state into something different. I see this as some kind of ungodly temptation.
 
With respect to the ending of the human race, I believe the same warning was given when we started playing with fire.
As to making humans obsolete, within the current economic system humans are already becoming obsolete except in their role as consumers, the fuel that drives this inhuman economy.

:twocents:
 
We are not talking about making humans obsolete, but AI taking over and getting rid of humans. Type of Terminator scenario. I disagree with Hawking that there is a danger, but you can’t compare it with our being able to master fire either, some 100,000 years ago.
 
Stephen Hawking thinks that new, ever improving, " thinking " machines will make humans obsolete, will be the end of mankind. So reports the BBC News. So why is Hawking wrong?

bbc.com/news/technology-30290540

Linus2nd
He’s actually said this before in lesser known interviews. The fundamental problem is that machines are not living organisms, and therefore do not have organic heterogeneous parts internally (immanently) ordered towards the whole. This internal ordering towards the whole is one of the defining characteristics of the substantial form of a living thing. This internal ordering of heterogeneous parts gives it certain potencies that are its end, its final cause.

So from this we can philosophically classify certain living organisms. Animals are living organisms that are capable of sensory knowledge. Humans are rational animals, with a whole host of capabilities; including self-awareness, consciousness, intentionality, abstraction, etc. The only question I think is whether non-living inanimate objects (machines) can have these qualities.

And the answer is “no.” They can’t even have the nutritive and reproductive qualities of plants. Why is this? Because they are not living. They are not internally ordered toward a whole end that allows them rational powers, or even sensory knowledge. They have none of these internal potencies.

Sure, you can construct inanimate objects (by using their non-living potencies) in a certain external order to obtain an end that mimics certain qualities of living things, but the machine has no internal ordering toward the whole. It is a mass of parts, each part of which has no intrinsic ordering toward the whole. Putting them together in a certain manner allows them to imitate some qualities of living beings, but it is artificial and not real; which is why we call it artificial intelligence.

I could go on to talk about the substantial form of animals and men and how machines simply don’t/can’t have it, yet I think it’s enough to show that a machine can’t even have the form of a living being.

For those who are naturalists and don’t subscribe to any kind of Aristotelian-Thomistic duality, John Searle comes to a very similar conclusion. He uses the Chinese Room Argument to demonstrate that a Turing Test cannot ever show that a computer has intelligence like a human being. He goes even further and concludes it cannot, because computers do not have the biological material necessary to allow for human-like intelligence.
 
He’s actually said this before in lesser known interviews. The fundamental problem is that machines are not living organisms, and therefore do not have organic heterogeneous parts internally (immanently) ordered towards the whole. This internal ordering towards the whole is one of the defining characteristics of the substantial form of a living thing. This internal ordering of heterogeneous parts gives it certain potencies that are its end, its final cause.

So from this we can philosophically classify certain living organisms. Animals are living organisms that are capable of sensory knowledge. Humans are rational animals, with a whole host of capabilities; including self-awareness, consciousness, intentionality, abstraction, etc. The only question I think is whether non-living inanimate objects (machines) can have these qualities.

And the answer is “no.” They can’t even have the nutritive and reproductive qualities of plants. Why is this? Because they are not living. They are not internally ordered toward a whole end that allows them rational powers, or even sensory knowledge. They have none of these internal potencies.

Sure, you can construct inanimate objects (by using their non-living potencies) in a certain external order to obtain an end that mimics certain qualities of living things, but the machine has no internal ordering toward the whole. It is a mass of parts, each part of which has no intrinsic ordering toward the whole. Putting them together in a certain manner allows them to imitate some qualities of living beings, but it is artificial and not real; which is why we call it artificial intelligence.

I could go on to talk about the substantial form of animals and men and how machines simply don’t/can’t have it, yet I think it’s enough to show that a machine can’t even have the form of a living being.

For those who are naturalists and don’t subscribe to any kind of Aristotelian-Thomistic duality, John Searle comes to a very similar conclusion. He uses the Chinese Room Argument to demonstrate that a Turing Test cannot ever show that a computer has intelligence like a human being. He goes even further and concludes it cannot, because computers do not have the biological material necessary to allow for human-like intelligence.
I’m not sure this gets at the root of the problem. What you say is true of course but I think the answer is much more complicated. I think one has to prove that a machine cannot think, it can only do what it has been programmed to do. One has to prove it cannot go beyond what it has been programmed to do. And since no one human being or even all human beings can foresee every situation and problem and select a correct solution, neither will any machine be able to do it. Then there is the problem of machines designing their own parts, making their own parts and searching, finding, mining, and obtaining all the raw materials it needs to construct these parts. Hawking has been reading too many si-fi books.

Linus2nd
 
Hawking has been wrong about many things so this is nothing new. With his claim that string theory as valid support of spontaneous life and this latest opinion I think it is apparent dementia is setting in.
 
Hawking has been wrong about many things so this is nothing new. With his claim that string theory as valid support of spontaneous life and this latest opinion I think it is apparent dementia is setting in.
Well, he has to make a lot of money to pay for his medical bills and his daily care. His bills must be enormous. Actually I like the guy, you have to admire his toughness, to live like that and still enjoy living and he said he wanted to live as long as possible. And he does have a sense of humor. We just have to pray for him.

Pax
Linus2nd
 
Hawking has been wrong about many things so this is nothing new. With his claim that string theory as valid support of spontaneous life and this latest opinion I think it is apparent dementia is setting in.
Agism. Watch the video linked in the OP, he’s obviously firing on all cylinders.
 
I think one has to prove that a machine cannot think, it can only do what it has been programmed to do. One has to prove it cannot go beyond what it has been programmed to do. And since no one human being or even all human beings can foresee every situation and problem and select a correct solution, neither will any machine be able to do it. Then there is the problem of machines designing their own parts, making their own parts and searching, finding, mining, and obtaining all the raw materials it needs to construct these parts. Hawking has been reading too many si-fi books.
It won’t surprise you 🙂 if I say yesterday’s sci-fi is today’s reality.

Gordon Moore, one of the founders of Intel, made a prediction in 1965 that chip transistor counts would double every two years. That has proved true for 50 years now. By my reckoning that means today’s computers are twenty million times more powerful than those of the 1960s. In ten year’s time they will be one billion times more powerful. By 2034, twenty billion.

Chips are now being sold which start to approach the brains’ energy efficiency. That means that just as today’s cellphone is orders of magnitude more powerful than a computer which once occupied a large room, tomorrow’s cellphone will be more powerful than today’s supercomputer, and use a fraction of the electricity.

Robots are now used routinely in many industries. Software which can evolve itself has been around for some time, and is usually better than software which has been programmed. Machines can learn from each other in seconds by wifi, even if they are on opposite sides of the planet.

With that pace of development in just fifty years, I’d have thought Hawking has a point. Eventually.
 
Well, he has to make a lot of money to pay for his medical bills and his daily care. His bills must be enormous.
Fortunately he lives in a country with a compassionate national healthcare system - instituted by a Welshman, of course. 😃

As far as The Rise Of The Machines, why would transcendent AIs, even if they come about, care about wiping us out or ‘replacing’ us? They don’t need food, air, water, wives, or even planets. Do you feel the need to wipe out or replace fish or algae?

Worst case scenario is that we spend a lot of money building them, they invent space drives and tell us “thanks for all the transistors” and bugger off into deep space.🤷
 
I’m not sure this gets at the root of the problem. What you say is true of course but I think the answer is much more complicated. I think one has to prove that a machine cannot think, it can only do what it has been programmed to do. One has to prove it cannot go beyond what it has been programmed to do. And since no one human being or even all human beings can foresee every situation and problem and select a correct solution, neither will any machine be able to do it. Then there is the problem of machines designing their own parts, making their own parts and searching, finding, mining, and obtaining all the raw materials it needs to construct these parts. Hawking has been reading too many si-fi books.

Linus2nd
I had to go back read and reread the article. I do not think Hawking’s is necessarily suggesting that artificial intelligence would ever surpass human intelligence in terms of contemplation and creativity. It still would very much be limited to its logical roots and thus its self-purpose would be limited in like manner, whereas human intelligence can go beyond the immediately logical. I think the problem is that artificial intelligence will just wipe out human intelligence out of something parallel to brute force, as it quickly dominates the use of resources, essential to life. For example, you can starve a human without being smarter than them, you just take away its food supply.

Then again, maybe I am reading too much into your post.
 
I had to go back read and reread the article. I do not think Hawking’s is necessarily suggesting that artificial intelligence would ever surpass human intelligence in terms of contemplation and creativity. It still would very much be limited to its logical roots and thus its self-purpose would be limited in like manner, whereas human intelligence can go beyond the immediately logical. .
Exactly,

Another physcists, Arthur Penrose, noted that there is no physical processes that would allow for free will.

If one restricts themselves to simply the natural realm ( like phycistis do), ‘will’ is either random or deterministic.

In the case of Artificial Intellegence, it is 100% deterministic. Th

The device will do what it is programmed to do, nothing more, and nothing less.

So you are quite correct, a non-spiritual device will be limited in creativity and really, actual thought.

here is Penrose’s book on the subject

amazon.com/The-Emperors-New-Mind-Concerning/dp/0192861980
 
It won’t surprise you 🙂 if I say yesterday’s sci-fi is today’s reality.

Gordon Moore, one of the founders of Intel, made a prediction in 1965 that chip transistor counts would double every two years. That has proved true for 50 years now. By my reckoning that means today’s computers are twenty million times more powerful than those of the 1960s. In ten year’s time they will be one billion times more powerful. By 2034, twenty billion.

Chips are now being sold which start to approach the brains’ energy efficiency. That means that just as today’s cellphone is orders of magnitude more powerful than a computer which once occupied a large room, tomorrow’s cellphone will be more powerful than today’s supercomputer, and use a fraction of the electricity.

Robots are now used routinely in many industries. Software which can evolve itself has been around for some time, and is usually better than software which has been programmed. Machines can learn from each other in seconds by wifi, even if they are on opposite sides of the planet.

With that pace of development in just fifty years, I’d have thought Hawking has a point. Eventually.
But the question was, " …why is Hawking wrong…? " I’m sure you don’t agree with him, but why is he wrong? No one doubts that computers and computer driven machines can be super efficient and can indeed challenge humans in many ways. But is it even theoretically possible that machines will displace human beings? I do not pretend to have the correct answer myself.
 
With all due respect machines can never take over the world for numerous reasons. Hawking is showing sign of dementia with his ever increasing delusional statements.

A couple of reasons why machines couldn’t ever “take over” are:
  1. They can’t think on their own, they are told what to do.
  2. If they break who will fix them?
  3. If the power goes out and there is no backup then what?
  4. Computers need power. When the power source runs out how will computers harness it? After all they can’t mine coal nor uranium.
Bottom line is that computers can only act on programming that they have in their software/hardware. What happens when a problem arises for which there is no code?
 
Seems to me they’ll always need someone to work the screwdriver.
 
My grandniece had a birthday and the electronic email invitation came with a link to an online store where one could purchase a gift. I could not attend, so I took advantage of the service using my credit card. Afterwards, I was sent a card on her behalf by the email card company thanking me for the gift. How efficient, no human contact between the interested parties was necessary at all. Taking this to the next step, my calendar could show her birthday triggering an automatic purchase of an item within a price range. That done, an automated thank you is received in my inbox. Years after my death she or her estate could still get my gifts and my estate would receive the thanks by proxy. All very civil. This will be handy after the zombie plague hits. . . if it hasn’t started already 🙂
 
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