Physical existance of Heaven and Hell?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Christine85
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I don’t know why everybody is so hung up on the realms of afterlife being “non physical”.

Even conceding that these would be experienced non physically by pure spirits and “naked souls,” it remains theologically certain that there are, or will be human BODIES there.

Therefore, these are realms wherein bodies can move around.

That alone would make them physical places of some kind.

Over-spiritualization is an error of understanding, too.

ICXC NIKA.
 
Why are you still maintaining this when a Pope who is being declared a Saint soon said otherwise?
 
Is not clear what do you mean by physical; if you mean that the common laws of nature take place, or a place in our space-time then of course no. If you mean a reality, then of course yes.
 
by physical I meant that some people think that Hell is actually where there are flames and people moaning and being burnt… I know someone mentioned the thing about the visions Saints have had, but I believe these visions are symbolic, As our own great Pope John Paul the second said that Heaven and Hell are not actually places but states of being.
 
Christine85 said:
by physical I meant that some people think that Hell is actually where there are flames and people moaning and being burnt… I know someone mentioned the thing about the visions Saints have had, but I believe these visions are symbolic, As our own great Pope John Paul the second said that Heaven and Hell are not actually places but states of being.
Click to expand...
What you can be sure is that they are real and things like that, burnings and suferings, take place there. Descriptions are figurative and symbolic. When you say place is in our world terms; If heaven is a place and hell is another place then in our world terms there must be a place which include both, which is nonsense. But we must use words from our world to express anything meaningful.
 
Ion said:
What you can be sure is that they are real and things like that, burnings and suferings, take place there.
Click to expand...
Eternal absence of spiritual fulfilment is hell. “Burning” is merely an analogy to express the intense spiritual suffering experienced by those who are in hell. There is no literal “Burning”.
Descriptions are figurative and symbolic.
Click to expand...
Correct. So why would you treat it as being otherwise?
 
GEddie said:
I don’t know why everybody is so hung up on the realms of afterlife being “non physical”.

Even conceding that these would be experienced non physically by pure spirits and “naked souls,” it remains theologically certain that there are, or will be human BODIES there.
Click to expand...
That there will be bodies in a place, does not amount to “there will be bodies in a place called hell”. Hell is not a place.
 
Linux said:
That there will be bodies in a place, does not amount to “there will be bodies in a place called hell”. Hell is not a place.
Click to expand...
Biblically, there will be bodies there. The final resurrection is for everybody.

If human bodies can maintain existence, there must be place. We should not try to outphilosophize the teachings of Scripture, it won’t work.

ICXC NIKA
 
I think that is after the final judgement when our bodies will be resurrected but until then Hell and Heaven is a state of being.
 
GEddie said:
Biblically, there will be bodies there. The final resurrection is for everybody.

If human bodies can maintain existence, there must be place. We should not try to outphilosophize the teachings of Scripture, it won’t work.

ICXC NIKA
Click to expand...
Hell is not a place, so that is wrong, regardless of whether or not we will have bodies.
 
If there is no physical place of hell, where does Satan and his minions reside. Just because Pope John Paul had his own opinion, doesn’t mean he is right. Saint Faustina had visions of Hell as a real place and Pope Benedict also stated that hell was a real physical place. The most important thing is that we work on not getting there.:heaven:
 
ivdaeorum said:
If there is no physical place of hell, where does Satan and his minions reside. Just because Pope John Paul had his own opinion, doesn’t mean he is right. Saint Faustina had visions of Hell as a real place and Pope Benedict also stated that hell was a real physical place. The most important thing is that we work on not getting there.:heaven:
Click to expand...
Just because Faustina had a vision, doesn’t mean your literal interpretation of that vision is right either. To speak of heaven or hell as a physical place is to fundamentally misunderstand what it means to be in hell or heaven.

To speak of heaven as a physical place is idolatry. Heaven is not a room full of nice cakes on a table or a banquet; these are just flawed analogies. If heaven was like anything we could imagine in physical terms, it would not be truly heaven because there is no absolute fulfilment in created things. Heaven is our eternal spiritual relationship with God, it is the beatific vision. God is heaven. Hell is the absence of that relationship, it is a state of being.

This is a matter of metaphysical reasoning, not baseless opinion.
 
Linux said:
To speak of heaven as a physical place is idolatry.
Click to expand...
I think that’s a bit over the top. I don’t know of any dogmatic decree that requires a belief that heaven is a purely non-physical state of being. The resurrection of the physical body is a fact that cannot be ignored.
 
Linux said:
Just because Faustina had a vision, doesn’t mean your literal interpretation of that vision is right either. To speak of heaven or hell as a physical place is to fundamentally misunderstand what it means to be in hell or heaven.

To speak of heaven as a physical place is idolatry. Heaven is not a room full of nice cakes on a table or a banquet; these are just flawed analogies. If heaven was like anything we could imagine in physical terms, it would not be truly heaven because there is no absolute fulfilment in created things. Heaven is our eternal spiritual relationship with God, it is the beatific vision. God is heaven. Hell is the absence of that relationship, it is a state of being.

This is a matter of metaphysical reasoning, not baseless opinion.
Click to expand...
Metaphysical ideas ignore the fact that we are and will remain, or be reinstated, physical beings.

To try to reduce human eschatology to a philosophical idea does not honor the life everlasting; it demeans it.

ICXC NIKA
 
ivdaeorum said:
If there is no physical place of hell, where does Satan and his minions reside. Just because Pope John Paul had his own opinion, doesn’t mean he is right. Saint Faustina had visions of Hell as a real place and Pope Benedict also stated that hell was a real physical place. The most important thing is that we work on not getting there.:heaven:
Click to expand...
Show a quote where Pope Emeritus Benedict said this please.
 
GEddie said:
Metaphysical ideas ignore the fact that we are and will remain, or be reinstated, physical beings.

To try to reduce human eschatology to a philosophical idea does not honor the life everlasting; it demeans it.

ICXC NIKA
Click to expand...
That’s not true. Theological interpretation, insofar as it discusses Gods nature and act, requires reason or rational distinctions in-order that Gods word can be meaningfully understood. Metaphysical truth is applicable to the faith, otherwise you are supporting fideism. The faith cannot contradict necessary ontological truth. Man’s essential nature cannot be ultimately fulfilled by created things, and therefore heaven is not a physical act. Heaven is a spiritual act, a spiritual state of being. Regardless of whether or not we will have bodies residing in a place, it still remains that the place itself is not essentially heaven. Hell by definition is the absence of heaven which is a spiritual state of being.
 
GEddie said:
Metaphysical ideas ignore the fact that we are and will remain, or be reinstated, physical beings.

To try to reduce human eschatology to a philosophical idea does not honor the life everlasting; it demeans it.

ICXC NIKA
Click to expand...
Our resurrected bodies will be glorified bodies, like the glorified body of Christ. Jesus Christ has a glorified physical body and he resides in Heaven. So will our glorified physical bodies. The glorified physical body will have shed all its dependence on its earthly limitations, it will not be subject to earthly physical laws. It will be able to exist in Heaven eventhough Heaven is not a place but a state. Linus2nd
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top