Picking Up Your Cross Each Day. What does it mean?

[jcrichton]

I view it as how we choose to respond to those crosses. Three cancers and now rejection issues from a stem cell transplant. I am struggling to joyfully embrace suffering for love of God - in the manner of the great Saints. It is my daily challenge to put my suffering to good use. Then, is it really suffering?

Hi, PO!

…it is what the Saints came to understand–we must offer all of our life’s experiences to Christ, for the Salvation of the world… all joy, all pain, all sorrow.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[JamalChristophr]

Thanks everyone for your insights and personal testimonies especially. I think they inspire others to carry their own crosses better. So I suppose the opposite,then, of picking up and carrying our cross is refusing to carry it all together or dragging it along. When we become angry with God or bitter over negative things in our lives for an extended time we are doing this, right? When we attempt in some way to circumvent in an illicit way some difficulty in our lives we are not carrying our crosses.

It seems as though this saying of Jesus must have been a very shocking thing to his disciples to hear and for early Christians. I doubt it had any precedent.

Perhaps some of the worst crosses are one that we may have created or maybe are creating ourselves through bad decisions in our lives.

A bad marriage, An unfaithful spouse. Loneliness. Mental Illness. Cancer, one’s one or a loved one. A bad temperament. A single person not finding a spouse perhaps even after looking, hoping, and waiting decades. There are a million kind of crosses then?

Sometimes, I think to myself, is this a cross or am I just doing something stupid in my life and creating one that didn’t need to be there in the first life through one or multiple mistakes.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

A cross could be many things. An obsession, a disability, a habit, physical pain like arthritis. …

So, we are asked to take our pains and sorrows, whatever it may be and bear them with patience and above all humility. We can also offer up our sufferings for reparation for our sins, and those of others. In this way, our cross offers us something positive. It helps others, and glorifies God. It also helps purify us in our walk towards eternal salvation.

This is what I always understood the saying to mean also.

I remember reading a story about a man who went to God and complained that his cross was too heavy, so God took him out to a big pile of crosses, all different, and said throw yours on the pile and pick out another one that is easier for you to carry. The man threw his cross on the pile and went through the whole pile trying different crosses, but all of them seemed heavier or more unwieldy or uncomfortable than the one he had thrown away. Finally he found one that seemed just right, so he went to God and said, “I’ll take this one” and God noted that the one he had picked was actually the same one he had thrown on the pile to start with. I always liked that story and the idea of all different crosses but God giving each of us one that we can handle.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Thanks everyone for your insights and personal testimonies especially. I think they inspire others to carry their own crosses better. So I suppose the opposite,then, of picking up and carrying our cross is refusing to carry it all together or dragging it along. When we become angry with God or bitter over negative things in our lives for an extended time we are doing this, right? When we attempt in some way to circumvent in an illicit way some difficulty in our lives we are not carrying our crosses.

I think of these as the times we fall down under the weight of the cross. Falling down is usually seen as a metaphor for sin, but when you’re carrying a heavy cross it seems normal that sometimes a human would be weak or frustrated or angry or bitter or try to get out of it somehow so I don’t think it’s necessarily a sin to feel that way. It’s just a feeling to overcome, you have to get back up and move that cross forward.

 

[jcrichton]

Thanks everyone for your insights and personal testimonies especially. I think they inspire others to carry their own crosses better.

Hi, Jamal!

I think that there are several different “know” or “experience” terms…

We can know about carrying our cross–Jesus Teachings
We can know about carrying our cross–personal experience
We can know about carrying our cross–someone else’s experience

Knowing what Jesus meant is searching Scriptures for His Teachings related to “carrying our cross.” If we do a thorough search we find that He is telling us to take on the responsibility of our cross (which we almost always reject); He is also telling us that we have to Follow Him with our cross in tow… yet, there are more of His Teachings… on from that very same passage is “every day” or daily… we are to focus on the issue at hand… not what took place days or years in the past… not what could/might happen tomorrow or a year from now… Today! (…as in “now is the favorable time, this is the day of Salvation.” 2 Corinthians 6:2);then we have Jesus Calling us to “Come to Me, all who labor and are overburdened, and I will give you Rest.”(St. Matthew 11:28-30).

So I suppose the opposite,then, of picking up and carrying our cross is refusing to carry it all together or dragging it along. When we become angry with God or bitter over negative things in our lives for an extended time we are doing this, right? When we attempt in some way to circumvent in an illicit way some difficulty in our lives we are not carrying our crosses.

I concur. It is the quintessential response of the son that quickly responds to the Father’s Commands affirmatively, yet resolves to disobey (St. Matthew 21:28-32).

It seems as though this saying of Jesus must have been a very shocking thing to his disciples to hear and for early Christians. I doubt it had any precedent.

…from St. Paul’s expressions (1 Corinthians 1:20-25), I doubt that it was part of the vernacular; the cross would have been seen as something unclean to even think about (this of course is my estimation); and, as I understand it, to the Jewish mind anything about death, illness, or burdensome would be seen as a punishment from God–accepting it and offering up to God… well that might have been met with a resounding “say, whaaaat?”

Perhaps some of the worst crosses are one that we may have created or maybe are creating ourselves through bad decisions in our lives.

A bad marriage, An unfaithful spouse. Loneliness. Mental Illness. Cancer, one’s one or a loved one. A bad temperament. A single person not finding a spouse perhaps even after looking, hoping, and waiting decades. There are a million kind of crosses then?

Sometimes, I think to myself, is this a cross or am I just doing something stupid in my life and creating one that didn’t need to be there in the first life through one or multiple mistakes.

…here’s where a lot of people seem to be missing the target… “A bad marriage,” really?
“Loneliness, illness, bad temperament,” and ‘stupidity?’

Here’s what take on your cross, every day, and follow Me means: none of those things are to be handled by any individual person without taking them to Christ.

Every single one of those crosses are: ‘this is the hour your Salvation.’

The Sacrament of Marriage as well as all the other Sacraments are meant to be observed and Lived in Christ.

A bad marriage/experience will not get better by jumping into the next and the next and the next…

A bad marriage/experience will only get “right” or “better” if we take it to Christ. Some things are easier to correct/face; some things we must get Spiritual and/or professional help in order to resolve the matter–any “assistance” that coaches a Catholic to go against God’s Commandments is the wrong assistance. Any “friend” that counsels to divorce, get even, do something immoral or unrighteous or to avail ourselves of the “mercy death/killing” is completely against God’s Will.

…all of our crosses are supposed to bring us closer to God, because it is in our need/weakness that we must depend more on Divine Providence:

9 but he has said, ‘My grace is enough for you: my power is at its best in weakness’. So I shall be very happy to make my weaknesses my special boast so that the power of Christ may stay over me, 10 and that is why I am quite content with my weaknesses, and with insults, hardships, persecutions, and the agonies I go through for Christ’s sake. For it is when I am weak that I am strong.

(2 Corinthians 12:9-10)
Maran atha!

Angel

 

[De_Maria]

This saying by Jesus is very prominent in the Gospels. Does it have one definitive meaning or multiple layers of interpretation?

Multiple.

My questions tend to be open-ended by nature so don’t feel too constrained. Thoughts on this verse? Meanings? Unique ways that you see this teaching. Concrete examples from your lives and the lives of others? Don’t be shy. All thoughts are welcome.

Ok. Well, I can’t add much to what others have said. Jesus has come to give us an example that we must follow in His footsteps, if we are to be His disciples. Thus, to carry our Cross, means to bear our hardships with courage and know that this is the way to heaven. As the Scripture says:

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if only we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him.

There is an added facet which perhaps has not been considered. I once heard that the Rich Young Man, who would not take up his cross to follow Christ, turned out to be St. Simon of Cyrene. Which, if true, is sublimely ironic.

First of all, because if St. Simeon represents us, he will come to realize that by taking up his Cross, he takes up Christ’s Cross. This is confirmed by another Scripture:

Galatians 2:18 But if I am building up again those things that I tore down, then I show myself to be a transgressor.[a] 19 For through the law I died to the law, that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ; 20 yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; **insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me.

So, Christ, has identified Himself with us to the extent that our sufferings are His and His are ours and when we take up our Cross, we take up the Cross of Christ, and accompany Him to our Crucifixion.

Does that make sense?**

 

[Solo1959]

I was always curious about the context of this verse. What did it mean to the people who heard it, the people of that time?

Jesus had not yet been crucified and the thought of Jesus’ crucifixion was probably so impossible, so unreasonable to them until it happened.

The only cross these people would know was a cross carried by condemned convicts. They would not have associated it with Jesus at all, ever.

I sometimes wonder if this verse is perhaps a later addition to the text or the insertion by a translator.

 

[Cathoholic]

Originally Posted by JamalChristophr:

This saying by Jesus is very prominent in the Gospels. Does it have one definitive meaning or multiple layers of interpretation?

DeMaria:

QUOTE:
Multiple.

My questions tend to be open-ended by nature so don’t feel too constrained. Thoughts on this verse? Meanings? Unique ways that you see this teaching. Concrete examples from your lives and the lives of others? Don’t be shy. All thoughts are welcome.
Ok. Well, I can’t add much to what others have said. Jesus has come to give us an example that we must follow in His footsteps, if we are to be His disciples. Thus, to carry our Cross, means to bear our hardships with courage and know that this is the way to heaven. As the Scripture says:

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if only we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him.

There is an added facet which perhaps has not been considered. I once heard that the Rich Young Man, who would not take up his cross to follow Christ, turned out to be St. Simon of Cyrene. Which, if true, is sublimely ironic.

First of all, because if St. Simeon represents us, he will come to realize that by taking up his Cross, he takes up Christ’s Cross. This is confirmed by another Scripture:

Galatians 2:18 But if I am building up again those things that I tore down, then I show myself to be a transgressor.[a] 19 **For through the law I died to the law, that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ; 20 yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me.

So, Christ, has identified Himself with us to the extent that our sufferings are His and His are ours and when we take up our Cross, we take up the Cross of Christ, and accompany Him to our Crucifixion.

Does that make sense?

I don’t know if this makes any sense to JamalChristophr DeMaria, but it makes sense to me.

Thanks for the great post.

Hope you don’t mind, but I am going to snatch some of this post of yours (with credit) for an area men’s Catholic Bible study of ours.

God bless.

Cathoholic**

 

[De_Maria]

I don’t know if this makes any sense to JamalChristophr DeMaria, but it makes sense to me.

Thanks for the great post.

Hope you don’t mind, but I am going to snatch some of this post of yours (with credit) for an area men’s Catholic Bible study of ours.

I don’t mind at all. I’m happy that you liked it so.

God bless.

Cathoholic

You’re welcome.

 

[De_Maria]

I was always curious about the context of this verse. What did it mean to the people who heard it, the people of that time?

Persecution.

Jesus had not yet been crucified and the thought of Jesus’ crucifixion was probably so impossible, so unreasonable to them until it happened.

The only cross these people would know was a cross carried by condemned convicts. They would not have associated it with Jesus at all, ever.

In fact, they would. As explained in Scripture by the great theologian, Gamaliel, it was not just criminals who were condemned to death in the Roman system. Others who were condemned, were rebels. And Israel had seen its share of rebels who were fighting the Roman Government and seeking to free their people from oppression.

Acts 5:33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Thus, in using this phrase, some might have thought that Jesus was asking them to join a rebellion, understanding that they would have much to suffer. There were other sayings of His that could be interpreted that way. For example:

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

Matthew 10:22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master.

Remember, also, that the Jews, for the most part, believed that the Messiah would be a conqueror. Not a suffering servant. Thus, they expected war. A rebellion against the world, where they might be conscripted into service.

I sometimes wonder if this verse is perhaps a later addition to the text or the insertion by a translator.

Rather, you should wonder at how marvelously God foresaw every little detail of our salvation. It amazes me, that many centuries before it happened, someone described the Crucifixion in detail.

Wisdom 2:12

• Let us lie in wait for the righteous one, because he is annoying to us;
  he opposes our actions,
  Reproaches us for transgressions of the law*
  and charges us with violations of our training.g
  13
  He professes to have knowledge of God
  and styles himself a child of the LORD.h
  14
  To us he is the censure of our thoughts;
  merely to see him is a hardship for us,i
  15
  Because his life is not like that of others,
  and different are his ways.
  16
  He judges us debased;
  he holds aloof from our paths as from things impure.
  He calls blest the destiny of the righteous
  and boasts that God is his Father.j
  17
  Let us see whether his words be true;
  let us find out what will happen to him in the end.k
  18
  For if the righteous one is the son of God, God will help him
  and deliver him from the hand of his foes.l
  19
  With violence and torture let us put him to the test
  that we may have proof of his gentleness
  and try his patience.
  20
  Let us condemn him to a shameful death;
  for according to his own words, God will take care of him.”m
  21
  These were their thoughts, but they erred;
  for their wickedness blinded them,n
  22
• And they did not know the hidden counsels of God;
  neither did they count on a recompense for holiness
  nor discern the innocent souls’ reward.o
  23
  For God formed us to be imperishable;
  the image of his own nature he made us.p
  24
  But by the envy* of the devil, death entered the world,
  and they who are allied with him experience it.q

See also Psalms 22
usccb.org/bible/psalms/22

 

[jcrichton]

I was always curious about the context of this verse. What did it mean to the people who heard it, the people of that time?

Jesus had not yet been crucified and the thought of Jesus’ crucifixion was probably so impossible, so unreasonable to them until it happened.

The only cross these people would know was a cross carried by condemned convicts. They would not have associated it with Jesus at all, ever.

I sometimes wonder if this verse is perhaps a later addition to the text or the insertion by a translator.

Hi, Solo!

…the term “overthink,” pops up…

Too many time we over analyze Scriptures… I’ve heard several arguments (scholars, theologians, and the average joe/jill) of how “foreign” or “does not fit the language of the time/other books” or “not possible to have been ‘xyz’ due to content/cultural practice…”

The one element that usually escapes analysis is Inspiration of the Holy Spirit:

30 There were many other signs that Jesus worked and the disciples saw, but they are not recorded in this book. 31 These are recorded so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing this you may have life through his name.

(St. John 20:30-31)
Now, if the critical analysis leads us to reject Scriptures or to doubt their authenticity we should look into the possibility of ransacking Scriptures for the sake of aesthetics or conformity or academic expertise (all of which must reject God’s Determinate Will to Reveal His Word according to His Divine Plan).

…have you considered how foreign or not fitting the parameter or expectations of “authoritative sources?:”

26 If any man comes to me without hating his father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, yes and his own life too, he cannot be my disciple.

(St. Luke 14:26)

34 ‘Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth: it is not peace I have come to bring, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 A man’s enemies will be those of his own household. (St. Matthew 10:34-36)
…and talk about singularity:

28 Thomas replied, ‘My Lord and my God!’ 29 Jesus said to him: ‘You believe because you can see me. Happy are those who have not seen and yet believe.’

(St. John 20:28-29)
This tiny passage is hugely charged! Here we have a profession of Faith by a Jew–does that mean that it was the Jewish thing to make such expression as people do today… throwing out all sorts of terms “God, xzy?”

…and, here’s on for the Jehovah Witnesses, why is it that Jesus check the young man who Called Him “good Master” but did not check St. Thomas’ profession of Faith?

…and why does Christ links the Faith of future Followers to St. Tomas’ lack of Faith?

When we search Scriptures our starting point must be ***Faith ***and our goal must be, “what is ***Yahweh God Revealing ***in His Word?”

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Persecution.

In fact, they would. As explained in Scripture by the great theologian, Gamaliel, it was not just criminals who were condemned to death in the Roman system. Others who were condemned, were rebels. And Israel had seen its share of rebels who were fighting the Roman Government and seeking to free their people from oppression.

Acts 5:33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

Thus, in using this phrase, some might have thought that Jesus was asking them to join a rebellion, understanding that they would have much to suffer. There were other sayings of His that could be interpreted that way. For example:

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

Matthew 10:22 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master.

Remember, also, that the Jews, for the most part, believed that the Messiah would be a conqueror. Not a suffering servant. Thus, they expected war. A rebellion against the world, where they might be conscripted into service.

Rather, you should wonder at how marvelously God foresaw every little detail of our salvation. It amazes me, that many centuries before it happened, someone described the Crucifixion in detail.

**Wisdom 2:12

• Let us lie in wait for the righteous one, because he is annoying to us;
  he opposes our actions,
  Reproaches us for transgressions of the law*
  and charges us with violations of our training.g
  13
  He professes to have knowledge of God
  and styles himself a child of the LORD.h
  14
  To us he is the censure of our thoughts;
  merely to see him is a hardship for us,i
  15
  Because his life is not like that of others,
  and different are his ways.
  16
  He judges us debased;
  he holds aloof from our paths as from things impure.
  He calls blest the destiny of the righteous
  and boasts that God is his Father.j
  17
  Let us see whether his words be true;
  let us find out what will happen to him in the end.k
  18
  For if the righteous one is the son of God, God will help him
  and deliver him from the hand of his foes.l
  19
  With violence and torture let us put him to the test
  that we may have proof of his gentleness
  and try his patience.
  20
  Let us condemn him to a shameful death;
  for according to his own words, God will take care of him.”m
  21
  These were their thoughts, but they erred;
  for their wickedness blinded them,n
  22
• And they did not know the hidden counsels of God;
  neither did they count on a recompense for holiness
  nor discern the innocent souls’ reward.o
  23
  For God formed us to be imperishable;
  the image of his own nature he made us.p
  24
  But by the envy* of the devil, death entered the world,
  and they who are allied with him experience it.q**

See also Psalms 22
usccb.org/bible/psalms/22

Hi, De Maria!

It is interesting how non-Catholics reject the Catholic Canon of the Bible and they side with the Jews who reject the Septuagint ignoring the gems that are found in such Revelations… this passage from Wisdom shows the Jewish disbelief, Jesus’ Passion and Death and His prophecy, not allowing His Servant to experience corruption, to Raise the Temple in three days, and the challenge of all who rejected Christ: ‘if He is the Son of God, let God Himself Rescue Him from our hands!’ (This, was the same challenge put to Jesus by Satan: ‘God Prove Yourself to me!’)

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Solo1959]

Thank you Angel and De Maria for your replies.

Angel, I am Catholic and I do not deny the Catholic Canon. I don’t know that you were speaking about me, but please let me assure you I truley struggled with this verse. I do thank you for this reply and for all of the other very edifying and instructional things you post regularly.

I think that De Maria helped me to understand this context finally after much seeking.

…some might have thought that Jesus was asking them to join a rebellion, understanding that they would have much to suffer…Remember, also, that the Jews, for the most part, believed that the Messiah would be a conqueror. Not a suffering servant. Thus, they expected war. A rebellion against the world, where they might be conscripted into service. …

So, “Look at all those rebellious men who will lose their life for nothing, follow me and be prepared to give your life for what matters” might be a valid interpreation of the verse.

Thank you both very much for your help.

 

[De_Maria]

Thank you Angel and De Maria for your replies.

Angel, I am Catholic and I do not deny the Catholic Canon. I don’t know that you were speaking about me, but please let me assure you I truley struggled with this verse. I do thank you for this reply and for all of the other very edifying and instructional things you post regularly.

I think that De Maria helped me to understand this context finally after much seeking.

So, “Look at all those rebellious men who will lose their life for nothing, follow me and be prepared to give your life for what matters” might be a valid interpreation of the verse.

Thank you both very much for your help.

I’m glad I could be of help. But remember also, that Jesus spoke to them in parables:

Matthew 13:9-11New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

9 Whoever has ears ought to hear.”

The Purpose of Parables. 10 The disciples approached him and said, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” 11 [a]He said to them in reply, “Because knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been granted to you, but to them it has not been granted.

Why is it meant for His Disciples to understand and not the populace? Because Jesus Christ wanted the populace to come to the Church to learn His Teachings:

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So, saying, “Carry your Cross”, might have been difficult to understand. But that doesn’t mean that it was written in centuries later. It means that Christ was speaking to them in a manner that would force them to come to the Church for interpretation.

 

[JamalChristophr]

I think that as one person has previously pointed out, it’s quite possible that people who heard Jesus say this could hardly process it at all. Not until after his crucifixion would such a saying come to make sense- particularly in the minds of the four evangelists and the early followers of Jesus. I would put that out, anyways, as one possibility. I think it was a “hard a saying” … much like what Jesus said in the sixth chapter of John. I would venture that to some degree it was one of those things his disciples did not really understand fully and were afraid to ask him.

Thanks everyone for your contributions!

 

[jcrichton]

Thank you Angel and De Maria for your replies.

Angel, I am Catholic and I do not deny the Catholic Canon. I don’t know that you were speaking about me, but please let me assure you I truley struggled with this verse. I do thank you for this reply and for all of the other very edifying and instructional things you post regularly.

I think that De Maria helped me to understand this context finally after much seeking.

So, “Look at all those rebellious men who will lose their life for nothing, follow me and be prepared to give your life for what matters” might be a valid interpreation of the verse.

Thank you both very much for your help.

Hi, Solo!

I apologize if you felt that I somehow reflected on your own personal Faith.

I never go into that (unless I see a repletion of queries denying, questioning of disrespecting God’s Authority, Revelation, or the Church, Doctrine, or Faith… when I see this I query for clarification (ie: ‘is this what you meant’ or could you clarify or can you demonstrate through direct quote/s…); yet, even then, I never pass judgment.

I do have the tendency to use collective thought (your wording reminded me of this situation that is happening around Sacred Scriptures and their “Authenticity” or “historical account/proof,” etc.)… I do this because I think not only about the query and the poster but also on the impression that others who might just read through the thread take with them…

I push to clarify; I challenge people to think/view Scriptures or the argument differently… but I never do it as a means to judge or deny anyone’s position or understanding.

…as for Jesus’ Holy War… the battle grounds have been delineated:

16 Remember, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; so be cunning as serpents and yet as harmless as doves. 17 ‘Beware of men: they will hand you over to sanhedrins and scourge you in their synagogues. 18 You will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the pagans. 19 But when they hand you over, do not worry about how to speak or what to say; what you are to say will be given to you when the time comes; 20 because it is not you who will be speaking; the Spirit of your Father will be speaking in you. 21 ‘Brother will betray brother to death, and the father his child; children will rise against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by all men on account of my name; but the man who stands firm to the end will be saved.

St. Matthew 10:16-22)
Thank you for your kind words about my contribution on the forums.

Again, I apologize if you felt I was judging you–that is far from the truth. Please, feel free to check me whenever you don’t understand my reasoning.

God Bless!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I think that as one person has previously pointed out, it’s quite possible that people who heard Jesus say this could hardly process it at all. Not until after his crucifixion would such a saying come to make sense- particularly in the minds of the four evangelists and the early followers of Jesus. I would put that out, anyways, as one possibility. I think it was a “hard a saying” … much like what Jesus said in the sixth chapter of John. I would venture that to some degree it was one of those things his disciples did not really understand fully and were afraid to ask him.

Thanks everyone for your contributions!

Hi, Jamal!

…and Jesus spoke to this very Unfolding:

12 I still have many things to say to you but they would be too much for you now. 13 But when the Spirit of truth comes he will lead you to the complete truth, since he will not be speaking as from himself but will say only what he has learnt; and he will tell you of the things to come. 14 He will glorify me, since all he tells you will be taken from what is mine. 15 Everything the Father has is mine; that is why I said: All he tells you will be taken from what is mine.

(St. John 16:12-15)
It is through the Holy Spirit’s Guidance and further Revelation that the Apostles will Fully Understand Jesus Ministry.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[GLam8833]

I think that De Maria has hit the right note
when he/she mentioned: Persecution.
Jesus was the Victim of persecution from
the Jewish authorities whom he tried to
convert.

 

[patrick457]

This saying by Jesus is very prominent in the Gospels. Does it have one definitive meaning or multiple layers of interpretation? My questions tend to be open-ended by nature so don’t feel too constrained. Thoughts on this verse? Meanings? Unique ways that you see this teaching. Concrete examples from your lives and the lives of others? Don’t be shy. All thoughts are welcome.

Historically speaking, it’s more likely that Jesus meant this literally. I mean, nowadays “to carry your cross” is a metaphor, an idiom: the ‘cross’ is some kind burden we carry in our lives. But in Jesus’ day, there was no such expression - if anything, the modern expression comes from Jesus’ statement.

When Jesus said take up your cross(beam), He literally meant that if you’re going to follow Him, you have to be prepared to be crucified - i.e. die a horrible, degrading, shameful death - for it. It’s a call to absolute surrender. That’s just how radical, dangerous, Jesus and His teaching was. Discipleship demands sacrifice.

 

[jcrichton]

Historically speaking, it’s more likely that Jesus meant this literally. I mean, nowadays “to carry your cross” is a metaphor, an idiom: the ‘cross’ is some kind burden we carry in our lives. But in Jesus’ day, there was no such expression - if anything, the modern expression comes from Jesus’ statement.

When Jesus said take up your cross(beam), He literally meant that if you’re going to follow Him, you have to be prepared to be crucified - i.e. die a horrible, degrading, shameful death - for it. It’s a call to absolute surrender. That’s just how radical, dangerous, Jesus and His teaching was. Discipleship demands sacrifice.

Hi, Patrick!

…but if a literal meaning: ‘you’re going to be crucified,’ how are they going to be crucified daily?

Maran atha!

Angel