Pics of Novus Ordo - Ad Orientem!

[proud2bcatholic]

ridesawhitehors:

Someone should write a book about this and start promoting it in our country. How can we get this to be more common?

How about an Encyclical. It would be cool, if Pope Benedict skimmed down his Spirit of the Liturgy, and made it an Encylical.:yup:

Then, priests who taught the same thing as in the book would have a more solid defense if they were to be suspended.

 

[viktor_aleksndr]

proud2bcatholic:

How about an Encyclical. It would be cool, if Pope Benedict skimmed down his Spirit of the Liturgy, and made it an Encylical.:yup:

Then, priests who taught the same thing as in the book would have a more solid defense if they were to be suspended.

I know that Pope Benedict is a supporter of TLM so how can he disagree with ad orientem.

Why don’t we send an open letter to the vatican?

 

[proud2bcatholic]

viktor aleksndr:

I know that Pope Benedict is a supporter of TLM so how can he disagree with ad orientem.

Why don’t we send an open letter to the vatican?

Have you read Spirit of the Liturgy, Pope Benedict very convincingly and beautifully explains why the Liturgy of the Eucharist should be ad orientem, which is why I said he should skim it down some and make it an Encyclical.

 

[Catholic29]

Lux_et_veritas:

And, probably my favorite - in the outdoor Grotto, Fr. Eduard Perrone in the center, elevates the Host. Jesus is truly the center of this picture. Several concelebrants look on, as does Bishop John M. Quinn, Auxiliary Bishop of Detroit.

There had to be several hundred people crammed into the Grotto cemetary for this Mass. In general, people had to be bussed-in all day long due to lack of parking from so many visitors, parishioners, and workers.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

I am practically positive that Bishop Quinn’s colleague Thomas Gumbleton wouldn’t be caught dead offering Mass in any manner resembling this.:nope:

But we ought to be thankful that Bishop Quinn allows it in this way.:yup: Funny he is not the celebrant here though.

 

[FuzzyBunny116]

What is “ad orientem?”

 

[Brendan]

FuzzyBunny116:

What is “ad orientem?”

Literally “to the East”, in liturgical usage, it means saying Mass facing towards the Tabernacle, away from the people.

 

[Fast_ed75]

The big question is: Does Cardinal Maida accept potential seminarians from Assumption Grotto or are the automatically denied for being “too rigid”

 

[FuzzyBunny116]

Thanks for the definition, and I must say, what an amazing church! I’d die to go to one of your Masses. Yours beats the heck out of my Church’s Mass.

 

[msproule]

Sparky:

How far is it from…say…Waterford/Pontiac?

It will take you less than an hour to drive there. Take I-75 south toward Detroit and there are a couple of ways to reach the parish once you approach the area.

Here is the website: assumptiongrotto.com/

 

[E.E.N.S]

proud2bcatholic:

How about an Encyclical. It would be cool, if Pope Benedict skimmed down his Spirit of the Liturgy, and made it an Encylical.:yup:

Then, priests who taught the same thing as in the book would have a more solid defense if they were to be suspended.

Amen brother!

 

[Brendan]

Fast_ed75:

The big question is: Does Cardinal Maida accept potential seminarians from Assumption Grotto or are the automatically denied for being “too rigid”

Yes he does. And an similar parish, Sts. Cyril and Methodius, is responsible for about 1/3 of the guys in the Seminary now.

 

[ForeverAdam]

I noticed in the first picture that one of the servers was lifting the back of the priest’s chasuble during the Consecration. That is a very beautiful tradition, but if I recall correctly, this practice was dis-continued with the “Ordo Missae” of 1965. The unreformed 1962 Missal was the last to contain this liturgical practice. This leads me to ask, how many pre-Councilor minutia can be added to the Novus Ordo until it begins to masquerade as something it simply is not viz. the traditional Roman Mass?

I have no doubt that the Novus Ordo can be dressed up really nicely, but at the end of the day, granted no major reform is done to it, it still is another rite. Paul VI in the late 1960s commissioned the same things that St. Gregory the Great had done in the 6th century to the Mass, namely, a recasting of the propers of the Mass. When the classical Roman Rite came into being in the 6th century it was formed out of pre-existing prayers and ceremonies that had been used in the Roman liturgy in previous times. For example, some postcommunions from pre-Gregorian sacramentaries became collects in the classical Roman Rite and vice-versa. Likewise, many of the propers from the traditional Mass were re-arranged into the Novus Ordo.

In other words, when you create a new liturgical rite you take elements of the previous liturgy and re-organize the material and bring in new material, to a degree, to form the new Rite. A new Rite was formed by Paul VI, or at least he did all that would constitute the creation of one. Many don’t want to call a “spade a spade” though.

Many today like to make much of the past Roman tradition of having more than one liturgical rite. That is all well and good if the other rites have a venerable origin. Having an extra liturgical rite in the Church due to inability to agree on implementing liturgical reform to the original rite is hardly my definition of venerable origin.

Adam

 

[Legatus]

Psalm45:9:

I believe that was the Epistle.

As for the center card, it didn’t just have the consecration prayers on it, it also had the gloria and credo on it.

The right hand card did not have the Episle (which was in the Missal and was proper to the Mass of the day). What the right hand card had was the prayer for the blessing of the water as it was added to the wine in the chalice as well as the Lavabo psalm. Both of these formulas were longer in the Old Rite than in the NO.

As a point of interest, if the celebrant of the Mass was a bishop or some other prelate having use of the pontificals there were no altar cards used but rather a book called the “Canon Pontificalis” which at Low Mass was placed againt the tabernacle like the centre altar card. During the Lavabo it was moved to the right horn (end) of the altar and then returned to the middle. from the begining of the Preface it replaced the missal on the missal stand until the ablutions. During the Last Gospel it was held at the left horn of the Altar. In Pontifical High Mass it was used at the throne for the Ordinary of the Mass with the Propers being read or chanted form the Missal. At the Offertory when the Bishop went to the Altar the Canon was placed in front of the tabernacle and all was as described above for Low Mass.

 

[Legatus]

Lux_et_veritas:

I think it would do it for many people. Whle I would love to assist in a TLM, I’m satisfied with the Novus Ordo done the way it ought to be!

Of course this is easy to say when one is viewing a picture of the NO which looks identical to TLM. But the Rite consists of of more than just the Elevations, the language, the direction the priest faces and the music. These are all PARTS of the Rite but there is much more. That “much more” includes a great deal that differerentiates TLM from the NO. The latter is, in fact, a new creation which lacks any real organic development from the earlier Rite.

I have seen the NO chanted facing “ad apsidem” at the main church of the Oratorians here in Toronto. It is a great improvement over the usual NO Mass and Fr. Perrone in Detroit is to be congratulated both for his Liturgy and the ideas expressed in his sermon. I wonder, however, whether he might not prefer to use TLM were he given the chance. I understand the the Archdiocese of Detroit has traditionally been reluctant to grant the “wide and generous application” of the old Missal as called for by Pope John Paul II.

 

[Morning_Glory]

Diane,

The pictures are just awesome. It brings back terrific memories of the Feast. I think, though, you were being conservative about the amount of people attending.

Question: The huge space from the last pews to the front doors. Is that where the orchestra will be? I was wondering about that huge empty space.

That whole day was an unforgettable experience. I just wish every church took the time/effort to celebrate their particular patron’s day/feast as well.

BTW, I have dial-up with absolutely no problems or delays with the photos.

Maggie

 

[Catholic29]

Brendan:

Yes he does. And an similar parish, Sts. Cyril and Methodius, is responsible for about 1/3 of the guys in the Seminary now.

But none from St. Leo’s(Gumbleton’s parish) I would guess, am I right?

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

AlexB:

In the Archdiocese of Detroit, there are two other parishes that offer a Sunday Novus Ordo Latin Mass the same way, at a high altar ad orientem, but without a freestanding altar in front: Holy Family and St. Joseph, both downtown.

In fact, Fr. Perrone assisted at St. Joseph for many years before being appointed to Assumption Grotto. He published a book of sung Latin Preface settings that St. Joseph uses on the altar. Arguably, Fr. Perrone restored ad orientem celebration at Grotto based on his experience at St. Joseph. See the St. Joseph web site for more info: saint-joseph-detroit.org.

Holy Family has never had a freestanding altar, and to my knowledge, has never (or extremely rarely) celebrated a vernacular Mass. All daily and Sunday Masses are in Latin, and have been since the Council. They have no web site, however.

And we have a versus populum Latin Mass at Old St. Mary’s (where Fr. Perrone was music director in the 70s), plus our Tridentine Mass at St. Josaphat, and weekday Latin Masses at Our Lady of Mt. Carmel and Ss. Cyril and Methodius.

St. Joseph and St. Josaphat also offer weddings in Latin (Novus Ordo) celebrated ad orientem. I was married at St. Joseph in such a Mass, and another couple will be married at St. Josaphat on Sept. 23 in that manner.

Who would have thought that this liberal diocese would have these islands of Holy Tradition…

Thanks for providing this background. And, it is great to know of other parishes doing the same.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Sparky:

My mom lives near Detroit. Where is this place. I MUST visit this when I get back to Michigan next time. How far is it from…say…Waterford/Pontiac?
–Ann

I’d say about 30-45 minutes from Pontiac, maybe a little longer. All she has to do is to take I-75, then switch to I-696. Stay on I-696 and get off at the Gratiot exit (for fewest turns). Then, she can take Gratiot to just the other side of a light past 7 mile (closer to McNichols) and the Church will be on her left. If she were to come to an orchestral Mass, it is wise to get there at least 30 minutes ahead to not have a parking problem, if not a little sooner. There is always something to eat in the parish hall aftarwards too. They’ve been grilling hot dogs, hamburgers, and sausages after the 9:30 and Noon Masses and probably will continue until it is too cold and snowy. But, then they’ll go back to boiled hot dogs. People just seem to hang out at the Grotto for hours after Mass. It is wonderful.

For your viewing pleasure - a closer view of the chasuble for this feast day:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Legatus:

Of course this is easy to say when one is viewing a picture of the NO which looks identical to TLM. But the Rite consists of of more than just the Elevations, the language, the direction the priest faces and the music. These are all PARTS of the Rite but there is much more. That “much more” includes a great deal that differerentiates TLM from the NO. The latter is, in fact, a new creation which lacks any real organic development from the earlier Rite.

I have seen the NO chanted facing “ad apsidem” at the main church of the Oratorians here in Toronto. It is a great improvement over the usual NO Mass and Fr. Perrone in Detroit is to be congratulated both for his Liturgy and the ideas expressed in his sermon. I wonder, however, whether he might not prefer to use TLM were he given the chance. I understand the the Archdiocese of Detroit has traditionally been reluctant to grant the “wide and generous application” of the old Missal as called for by Pope John Paul II.

I do know that the TLM is more detailed and even more reverent. And, many will forever love that aspect. However, there are so many people craving just a reverent, respectful Mass that I do believe that a good number would gravitate to this kind of Novus Ordo if they were more readily available.

I certainly don’t mean to take anything away from the TLM.

 

[krazykatlady]

I went to the Novus Ordo done ad orientam in Latin at the Brompton Oratory in London last February. A choir of angels sang Gregorian chant. Clouds of incense carrying our prayers wafted heavenward. I didn’t want it to ever end…