R
rcscwc
Guest
Mas or not, it is not the custom of Hindus to hold ceremonies with a cross on the altar. It might be a mass disguised as a Hindu ceremony, with a view to lure the Hindus.
- Status
L
LDNCatholic
Guest
And it might not. It might be a million other things. Besides, I see a couple of European faces in that crowd, not exactly your tribal Hindu sort.
R
RUINATION_IPA
Guest
Who’s breaking the commandments? It’s those who violate the rubrics which the Spouse of Christ has setup as part of it’s God given right to bind and to loose.
J
jfallaw
Guest
Makes me wonder if I really did leave the Protestant church.
R
rcscwc
Guest
It be a zillion other things, except a Hindu ceremony.
B
Brian777
Guest
how do i feel, anger, hatred, disdain…which are all sins. then i collapse spiritually into sadness at the complete disregard the Church has had for its own liturgical docs in the last 4o years and beg God to have mercy on us.
I
ibkc
Guest
No, that one is definitely a mass, celebrated by Cardinal Schonborn in Austria in November. Videos of it have been circulating, it has caused a fair bit of scandal. You can watch it here: youtube.com/watch?v=67Lom28KSlg
T
T700
Guest
Coming from the very liberal, Anglican communion, it takes a lot to shock me. That video did. Part of me hopes the consecration was not valid–all those crumbs that must have been trodden underfoot. Lord have mercy on us all. So sad…
Paul
B
Brian777
Guest
The ballons, lights, and music, are appalling…the consecration would have been ok if the music hadn’t started playing after the Elevation of the …huge piece of bread, i guess its not really a host…but im pretty sure the actual words of consecration are valid and therefore the consecration itself is valid. No consecration of the Precious Blood though…that’s strange…
I thought the Austrians were on the Traditional side of things for the most part…
D
DavidPalm
Guest
I believe that if there was no consecration of the Precious Blood then there was no valid consecration at all.
I found this video so disturbing that I clicked it off before it finished. I felt sick to my stomach. In a healthier Church Cardinal Schonborn would lose his red hat and perhaps his bishopric for that public abomination.
B
Brian777
Guest
this type of thing rampant can’t be rampant through Austria, is it?. I have a friend who attends Franciscan University in Stubenville, Ohio and studied in the Alps in Austria for one semester with a group. He said they were light years ahead of the rest of the Church(America) in restoring the liturgy.
W
weepixie71
Guest
i can remember being a young girl in grade school. we had a day in the park and father came out and did a (novus ordo) mass at the park. we knew their would be a mass so we dressed down but we were still covered. after we sang the holy holy holy, we knelt on the grass. we formed a circle around fathers table about 15 feet back.
this was in the late 1980’s. so many changes in such a short time. why do people who attend the novus ordo not see this? why can they not see that each change is a little less holy, a little less “Catholic”?, a little less respectful?
God comes to us in the Holy Eucharist and these children in the picture stand there like an equal to God Himself and you find this AOK? not only stand there in a church, but in the holy sanctuary during the consecration and this is fine?
May God have mercy on His church!!!
this was in the late 1980’s. so many changes in such a short time. why do people who attend the novus ordo not see this? why can they not see that each change is a little less holy, a little less “Catholic”?, a little less respectful?
God comes to us in the Holy Eucharist and these children in the picture stand there like an equal to God Himself and you find this AOK? not only stand there in a church, but in the holy sanctuary during the consecration and this is fine?
May God have mercy on His church!!!
Y
Yours_Truly
Guest
In a healthier Church Archbishop Lefebvre would be the hero, rather than the villan; and Schonborn would be doing penance for his sin, rather than a Cardinal with a red hate. If you want to find health in the Church, find one where Archbishop Lefebvre is considered the hero, and those such as Cardinal Schonborn are considered the villans.
One more reason to thank God for giving us Archbishop Lefebvre who cared enough about the Mass and the faith that goes along with it, to take actions to preserve them that caused his a tremendous amount of difficulties in this life (but a great reward in heaven).
We will recognize health returning to the Church when the Pope finally admits that the banning of the Mass was a lie (Oh yeah, he already did that), and when the “ecommunications” of the SSPX are lifted (right, that too has been done), the finally when Vatican II and its “reforms” are condemned and the council itself is tossed into the trash can where they belong. Let us pray for that glorious day.
The problem with Vatican II is not that it is being misinderpreted. The problem is that it is being interpreted as it was written, and as it is written it teaches explicitly what has been condemned by the Church - and I am ready and willing to back up that statement. The only way to not arrive at a heretical interpretation of Vatican II is by twisting its words to make them fit with what the Church has always taught, and this task is either impossible, or almost impossible. The Church itself does not interpet Vatican II this way. The Church (meaning Rome) interprets Vatican II in the heretical way in which it is written. That is the fact that people either do not realize, or refuse to acknowledge, or if they do realize it and implicily acknowledge it, they ignore it because the implications are too troubling for them to deal with. Therefore they attack those who say what they know to be true.
B
Brian777
Guest
This is going a tad off topic, but i believe you are wrong. many documents of vatican II back up ancient Church teaching right from the get go…the passage on salvation in Lumen Gentium for instance that is found in every Catechism. Sacramentum Concilium calls for the norms of the mass to be very traditional(versus deum, chant, etc…)
Parts of Vat II were without a doubt very close to the heretical line…but the Holy Ghost does not allow a whole Council to go off track…that would be an obsurd idea one that stands against (heretical) the idea that the Church is infallible and indefunctible.
E
eelpis
Guest
The thing is, I don’t think these young people wanted this kind of mass, it was their elderly pastor…so it became this embarrassing…
These happenings will soon become just like a bad dream…they will fade away, so there is no use in reliving them over and over again.
Y
Yours_Truly
Guest
Many of the documents of Vatican II are fine, and some even very good; but there are some (DH, for example) that teach exactly what has been condemned by the Church. I have had discussions with many Catholics on this point. What I find interesting is that the same Catholics who claims that Vatican II didn’t change anything and is merely being “misinterpreted” are the same one who were explicitly reject the quotes I provided from the Church prior ot Vatican II since they teach the exact contrary of Vatican II. In other words, these Catholics would firmly embrace the formally condemned errors I would present (I would give the actual quotes), and justify their embracing of these errors because they thought tht Vatican II taught the contrary.
I wasn’t refering to those documents.
Why do you say the Holy Ghost would not permit a council (that did not engage the extraordinary (infallible) magisterium) to deviate from the faith? I admit that this is certainly not the norm, but what makes us think it would not be permitted by the Holy Ghost? In the past, the Holy Ghost has allowed Popes to publicly teach heresy, so why not a council?
In the prophecies of Daniel, as interpreted by St. Alphonsus and others, the “continual sacrifice” (the Mass) will be taken away. The prophet Daniel and St. Alphonsus explain why God will allow this to take place. It will be as a punishment for sin. I personally believe that God permitted Vatican II as a punishment for the sin of those who love not the truth.
2 Thess: 2:6-10 “And now you know what withholdeth [the Pope], that he [the antichrist] may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity already worketh; only that he who now holdeth [the Pope], do hold, until he be taken out of the way [or neutralized due to inaction in defending the faith]. And then that wicked one shall be revealed whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth; and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming, him, Whose coming is according to the working of Satan, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders, And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying”.
There is a very interesting book called Faith is Greater than Obedience, in which Jesus reveals to a holy Priest that the antichrist is not only a man, but a movement. This movement is alive and well today and has invaded the Holy Catholic Church. We must know our faith extremely well in these difficult times if we are not to be led astray by the “operation of error” that causes people to “believe lying”.
Remember the story I told about those who I’ve debated who have embraced formally condemned errors based on the teachings of Vatican II. They love not the truth, and instead have embraced a lie - and this due to Vatican II.
And further, even when I tried to reconcile Vatican II with what the Church had always taught, nevertheless, they rejected that traditional interpretation of Vatican II since it is contrary to what the Church in general is now teachiing. We are in the great apostasy. Let us not be of the majority who are led astray, and for this, we must stay very close to the good God, and study the anti-Liberal encyclicals of the 19 and first half of the 20th century. They exposed the very errors that are now taught by the highest levels of the Church.
D
DavidPalm
Guest
Yours_Truly, I’ve put up a bit of a challenge for you on this topic over at the thread: Abp. Lefebvre and Vatican II. See ya there 
.
.
B
benedictgal
Guest
Oh yes there are abuses. First and foremost, the Holy See told LifeTeen that they are not to gather around the altar. The movement was raked over the coals for this back in 2004. Regarding liturgical freedom, that is a fallacy. The only creativity allowed for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the choice of the readings and the propers. Retreats do not justify liturgical abuse.
B
benedictgal
Guest
C
CradleCath
Guest
Dear Lord, by the time I was a teenager, I could have recited the Latin Mass, myself. I didn’t need the Mass to be dumbed down for my needs, nor did I need for it to be “fun”. I had plenty of “fun” outside of Mass. Mass was where I Worshiped God. It the never-ending Sacrifice that bought heaven for all of us. Of course, I also had a job, as oldest of 5 children I helped a lot at home, too. Why in the world would young adults need a special Mass? They are no longer children. (Maybe in the world today that celebrates a perpetual adolescence…they are. But, they shouldn’t be.)
- Status