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Faith101:
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Booklover:
So you are saying it is better to drink, but try not to drink too much than to stay away from alcohol all together?

hmm…i wonder how many of those alcoholics out there would never have been alcoholics if they never had that first cup of wine. oh dear, i think that would be none of them.

thank God for Islam! He knows us, and He protects us from our own selves.
hmmm…but hashish and Tobacco are mukhroo.

Allah doesnt seem to care about lung and mouth cancer.

The reason alcohol is forbidden is because a battle was lost, because some of the fighters were hungover.

Before that muslims were forbidden from coming to salat intoxicated with alcohol.

Convenient, but it does not address the issues of the heart.

The substance is not evil, its the abuse of it that is.

Therefore food is evil, if it controls you. Choclate is evil if you cannot control your desier for it.

So you see, talking about substances being forbidden because Allah knows us, is really sticking your head in a hole in the ground. The problem is with your hearts desires, not with the alcohol.
 
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Faith101:
hmmm…but hashish and Tobacco are mukhroo.
it is the scholars which consider a modern-day thing haram or makrooh or whatever depending on the support of the Quran and Sunnah. Before the effects of tobacco were fully realized, some scholars said it was “makrooh”…now b/c we now of all thier bad effects, some say it is forbidden.

again, if it harms you with no benefit…than it is usually something thats forbidden
So you see, talking about substances being forbidden because Allah knows us, is really sticking your head in a hole in the ground. The problem is with your hearts desires, not with the alcohol.
i dont understand what your point is here.

Why dont Muslims drink alcohol? B/c God said so.

Now, if you dont want to follow your Creator’s laws…thats on you…you’ll have to explain yourself when judgment comes
 
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Faith101:
Why dont Muslims drink alcohol? B/c God said so.

Now, if you dont want to follow your Creator’s laws…thats on you…you’ll have to explain yourself when judgment comes
Ah the promise of Jahanam,

It doesnt bother me, Jesus saves me, and you too, even if you deny Him.

🙂

My point is God does not forbid any substance, He forbids the abuse of such substances.

It is a common practice in some faiths, to consume an intoxicant to seek a closer relationship with the creator. Careful use of these intoxicants can lead to deeply spiritual experiences. If one can follow these traditions carefully and resposibly, I see no wrong in the consumption of the substance.

As I expalined food is a poison too, when you cannot control your desire for it.
So is choclate, and every other substance.

Inshallah I am more clear

Wa’salam
 
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hawk:
Ah the promise of Jahanam,

It doesnt bother me, Jesus saves me, and you too, even if you deny Him.

🙂
Yes, God has PROMISED certain types of people Jahanam for eternity.

are you saying you dont believe in hell? And if people who believe in Jesus peace be upon as a savior and the people who dont BOTH enter Paradise…then who is in Hell besides satan?
 
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Faith101:
Yes, God has PROMISED certain types of people Jahanam for eternity.

are you saying you dont believe in hell? And if people who believe in Jesus peace be upon as a savior and the people who dont BOTH enter Paradise…then who is in Hell besides satan?
There are people out there who reject Christ. I do not mean reject Him as you do.
It is the islamic equivalent of a Kafir

And ahl-al-kitab.

You are simply misinformed, there are others who outright reject in words, actions and thoughts.
 
My point is God does not forbid any substance, He forbids the abuse of such substances.
It is a common practice in some faiths, to consume an intoxicant to seek a closer relationship with the creator. Careful use of these intoxicants can lead to deeply spiritual experiences. If one can follow these traditions carefully and resposibly, I see no wrong in the consumption of the substance.
wow…i used to work in a psychiatric hospital…and one of the main reason those people were there was because of their abuse of certain types of drugs. It has literally messed them up for life…and they walk around talking to themselves. THey have even lost the ability to know when they need to use the bathroom or what is goin on aroung them. So your comment, to me, is just psycho…pun intended.
As I expalined food is a poison too, when you cannot control your desire for it.
thats right…that is why the Prophet peace be upon him commanded us not to overfill our stomaches…and to eat only in moderation.
So is choclate, and every other substance.
there is a huge difference between alcohol/drugs and chocalate/food.
 
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hawk:
There are people out there who reject Christ. I do not mean reject Him as you do.
It is the islamic equivalent of a Kafir

And ahl-al-kitab.

You are simply misinformed, there are others who outright reject in words, actions and thoughts.
you havent answered the question. Do you believe in hell?

you said i will be saved to…but i reject that Christ has the power to save me and i reject any form of divinity given to him and i reject the notion that he is the son of God. So who is gonig to go to hell besides satan?
 
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Faith101:
wow…i used to work in a psychiatric hospital…and one of the main reason those people were there was because of their abuse of certain types of drugs. It has literally messed them up for life…and they walk around talking to themselves. THey have even lost the ability to know when they need to use the bathroom or what is goin on aroung them. So your comment, to me, is just psycho…pun intended.
It is a common practice in eastern religions, for a highly disciplined adherent to seek a higher level with the controlled uses of intoxicants.

I am not talking about degenerates.

Wa’salam
 
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hawk:
It is a common practice in eastern religions, for a highly disciplined adherent to seek a higher level with the controlled uses of intoxicants.

I am not talking about degenerates.

Wa’salam
oh ok. so it ok…but once you become a “degernate” then its not ok. ofcourse, it will never be not ok…until its too late

alhamdulialh for Islam
 
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Faith101:
oh ok. so it ok…but once you become a “degernate” then its not ok. ofcourse, it will never be not ok…until its too late

alhamdulialh for Islam
alhamdulillah brother.

Alhamdulillah for Isa ibnu Allah.

🙂 👍
 
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hawk:
Ah the promise of Jahanam,

It doesnt bother me, Jesus saves me, and you too, even if you deny Him.

🙂

My point is God does not forbid any substance, He forbids the abuse of such substances.

It is a common practice in some faiths, to consume an intoxicant to seek a closer relationship with the creator. Careful use of these intoxicants can lead to deeply spiritual experiences. If one can follow these traditions carefully and resposibly, I see no wrong in the consumption of the substance.

As I expalined food is a poison too, when you cannot control your desire for it.
So is choclate, and every other substance.

Inshallah I am more clear

Wa’salam
I believe actually, Jesus said very clearly that if you deny him, he will also deny you. check it out.
 
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stillsearching:
I believe actually, Jesus said very clearly that if you deny him, he will also deny you. check it out.
I believe I cleared up what I meant by rejection.

Christianity is imprinted in our souls, we are the very “ruach” of God.

Christ is the embodiment of God.

If we listen to our souls, and are true to its murmurings, we are not rejecting Christ, but accepting Him.

Original sin clouds our sight, yet God created us in His image, and some non-catholics are acceptors of Christ.

When they stand before Christ, they will say “I did not know you, yet my entire life I sought you”

And the saving blood of Christ will wash them clean of their sins.

Dont be quick to pass judgement, that is the domain of the Lord.
 
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hawk:
I believe I cleared up what I meant by rejection.

Christianity is imprinted in our souls, we are the very “ruach” of God.

Christ is the embodiment of God.

If we listen to our souls, and are true to its murmurings, we are not rejecting Christ, but accepting Him.

Original sin clouds our sight, yet God created us in His image, and some non-catholics are acceptors of Christ.

When they stand before Christ, they will say “I did not know you, yet my entire life I sought you”

And the saving blood of Christ will wash them clean of their sins.

Dont be quick to pass judgement, that is the domain of the Lord.
Interesting philosophy… very greek in nature. Jesus was a hebrew.
 
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Faith101:
According to your Bible, at one point in time, God made it a point to forbid certain food on people.

It’s really interesting how people dont think food should be such a big deal. But what did Adam and Eve do to be removed from Paradise? Murder? Steal? No, God said “dont eat this” and they did.

To paraphrase St. Anselm:​

If God had commanded them, “Look to the left”, and they looked to the right instead, they would have sinned. It is never justifiable or right to disobey God - even though one does this a hundred times a day. It is not the material thing done - the eating, or drinking, for instance - but the disobedient self-will, that is the evil thing. Yet the will itself is not evil, for God is its Creator.

Another point, of great importance: Christians do not live by laws - laws are not the vital principle of our lives. We live, not by laws or codes of law, but, before all else, by the Spirit of God: laws are not nearly as important - not because we are morally free to do any old thing we like, but because we are meant, through the power of the Spirit of Christ and of God dwelling within us, to be transformed into the likeness of the Christ Whom we adore.

Since the Spirit of God is God, He has the moral character of God, which is a gracious character - so, living in Him Who dwells in us, we live by grace, which is poured into our hearts through this same Spirit.

And all this, comes to us purely from the unceasing self-giving Love of God, Who is alone truly Good. Not because we are anything, but because we are nothing, and less than nothing. ##
Perhaps this is another form of that kind of test. And some people are ignoring those verses and making the same mistake. Just an opinion
 
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BrJimC:
Interesting philosophy… very greek in nature. Jesus was a hebrew.
Its biblical my freind, and for that matter Quranic.

Can you explain what it means to have the “ruh” of God inside you, as described in the Quran?
Surely it has some significance or it would not have been mentionend there.
 
Wine- Fruit of the vine and the work of human hands! Oh yes!😃

Stouts- a good drink with your close friends in your favourite pub.👋

Spirits- on occasion can lift your spirits, don’t go overboard though. 😉
 
biblical doesnt mean that christ sanctioned it… Christ never saw the bible.

and no… you embodiment theory is not Qur’anic.
 
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BrJimC:
biblical doesnt mean that christ sanctioned it… Christ never saw the bible.

and no… you embodiment theory is not Qur’anic.
Christ is God incarnate, He inspired the writers.
🙂
 
I am a Catholic:

I know I’ve gotten in this conversation WAY late, but I have to disagree with my fellow Catholic on this one:
Yeah, getting intoxicated is a sin. But consuming a quantity of marijuana to a point where there is not intoxication would not be sinful per se. Marijuana in and of itself is not intrinsically evil.
Actually, eating Marijuana for a Catholic is a sin and is intriniscally evil because Marijuana is an illegal drug. Simply having Marijuana on your possession is breaking the law, and it is part of the Catholic Way to “obey the law of the land.” Eating brownies laced with “Mary Jane” is a violation of the Fourth Commandment. The Catholic Catechism, This is the Faith, states on page 78, under heading of fourth commandment, “We are commanded to obey, not only our parents, but also our bishops and pastors, the civil authorities and lawful superiors.”

The exception would be if you had a prescription for “Medical Marijuana” and if you were using the Marijuana in the manner prescribed by your doctor. Most medicinal Marijuana needs to be smoked to get to the proper pharmocological level to relieve pain, so therefore, there is no excuse to eat it in a brownie.

Besides … YUCK!!!

And about being forbidden to eat stuff … Catholics can pretty much eat anything in moderation. That is, it isn’t a sin to eat one slice of Chocolate cheese cake with luscious strawberries and whipped cream on top; however, eating five pieces could be considered gluttony, one of the seven deadly sins. Basically, you can eat anything to moderation that does no harm to your body.

Me? I’m allergic to milk, so I can’t indulge myself in a piece of Chocolate cheese cake topped with strawberries and whipped cream, for if I did, I’d break out in hive, get a migraine, have diarrhea for three days and would probably puke my guts out. I am simply fantasizing about it.

My milk allergy is a recent development. I used to have lustful dreams about men. But now, my dreams consist of walking into pastry shops and sampling cakes, ice cream, mousse, cheese cakes. In my last dream, I ate this chocolate brownie that was just to DIE for!!! I don’t dream about men anymore though. I lust after food. LOL!!!

So yes, we Catholics aren’t perfect. I think that lusting after food is probably less sinful than lusting after the opposite sex though. So … I’m making progress … I guess.

By the way … I’m open to ANYTHING tasty that’s milk-free from other cultures! SO … if you have an Islamic Desert Recipe (if there is such a thing) that has no milk, I would LOVE even more than I already do love you. (I love everybody).

In America, everything has milk in it, so I have to cook everything, and I’m really getting tired of Matzos, Ezekiel bread, and Rye crisps, as they all taste like cardboard. My diet is actually very close to the old diet of the Jewish Mosaic law, well, except for that occasional pork chop. LOL!!! God forced me into this diet. That’s OK though. I’m eating healthier because of it, and if it’s His Will, I say, Amen, so be it. Also, this strict diet is also a sort of perpetual fasting, albeit, forced, as I can no longer eat the things I like. It’s like a sacrifice. It is good for me. I’ve lost weight, too.

I find that I have to look to other cultures to get food without the involvement of cows. If anyone has a recipe they’d be willing to share, I’ll share with you, and as a reward, my recipe for Chocolate Tofu “Ice Cream.” Really, it’s not that bad. It ALMOST tastes like milk, if you use your imagination. LOL!!! Plus, it’s virtually free of calories.

However, I expect a “YUCK,” response, especially from the Dudes of the board. I have found that men have an aversion to Tofu. It’s just soybeans! IT won’t suck the testosterone out of your body! HA.

God Bless!!!
 
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