Pill and abortion

[Karen1960]

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On a “Christian” website (from which I and many other Catholics have been banned already because of this one thread) claim that not only is the pill acceptable, it can not cause an abortion. My point is that of course it is "not documented" as a woman has no clue she is pregnant yet. But they very fact that the pill can make implantation of a fertizlied egg (yes, that can happen too) impossible, thus causing an abortion.

Anyway my question is am I wrong? Can BCP cause abortions or not?

(BTW-this is the cute response I got along with being banned)
Edit per admin: Get your facts straight before posting your catholic propaganda on this forum. The Birth control pill has NEVER been proven to cause a single abortion. There is no scientific study proving it is abortive.

you know what’s a kick, she didn’t bother to read any of my links because it was webMD and a Protestant church’s website (a very pro-life church**)**

 

[survive]

You’re better off without that kind of conversation. It sounds like they 86 anyone who doesn’t toe their party line. By isolating themselves from facts and other people’s views, they are announcing their decision not to debate issues.

 

[Karen1960]

You’re better off without that kind of conversation. It sounds like they 86 anyone who doesn’t toe their party line. By isolating themselves from facts and other people’s views, they are announcing their decision not to debate issues.

very true. I can’t understand how someone can call themselves Pro-life and Pro-birth control at the same time. It’s an oxymoron:shrug:

 

[Karen1960]

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at this statement from a “Christian forum” that begins with a C and ends with a M

And you are still wrong. Women using the lactational method of birth control, “morals” involved, women using microwave ovens, women using NFP are as guilty of “possible” spontaneous abortions morally, as the woman taking a pill

.

Can you believe this nonsense? How does NFP cause a spontaneous abortion?

 

[lwillo]

epm.org/artman2/publish/prolife_birth_control_pill/A_Longer_Condensation_of_Does_The_Birth_Control

When you try to go to this article by clicking on this you will have to type in a search window. Type Does birth control pills cause abortion.

Here is an article written by a protestant that addresses the mechanism of action of the pill. (This is something you don’t see everyday.) He publishes information from the PDR, which states the 3 mechanism of action. 1) suppress ovulation, 2) thicken cervical mucus and lessening the chance of conception, or 3) thin the lining of the uterus to inhibit implantation. The trick with reading this literature, and the whole basis of the argument of the medical (and pro-pill) community is that they do not recognize “pregnancy” until implantation. So they can claim that the pill does not cause an "abortion,’ because it does not typically cause an implanted egg to abort. They aren’t dealing with the fertilized egg issue, they are holding on a technicallity. I’m a protestant convert, and this issue was instrumental in my conversion. There are protestants who are waking up the great lie, but most are just ignorant of the way the pill really works and what that ultimately means.

I should mention that I don’t know anything about the writer of the above ariticle or his other theological views, I just stumbled onto this ariticle and was suprised by a protestant ministry taking this viewpoint, and how inclusive his research on the mechanism of action of the pill was. So the article on contraception is the ONLY thing I have read by this writer.

 

[Karen1960]

So true, Iwillo here is a small sample of their beliefs (I have to cut and paste because I can’t link to the site)

Exactly, I am being kind, as **** ***** says often, the RCC is the greatest cause of sending people to hell… I agree with him, not only does Rome cause people to die in their sin in never teaching the true Gospel, but they are the cause to millions of abortions and deaths because of their stance against birth control…

HERE IS ANOTHER BEAUTY
*

Since it is well known that Rome is anti birth control, the bias and propaganda concerning condoms, or birth control pills is noted and obvious. Sorry but Catholics cannot be trusted to report facts concerning ANY birth control method…Those of us that are truly prolife, and not just anti birth control like the RC’s

and those of us truly against the horrible situation concerning surgical abortions and killing of innocent babies in the womb, ask you to keep your anti birth control “nonsense” to yourself.*

And this is the craziest yet:whacky:
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You are harming the prolife movement. Keep your religious postions against birth control out of it. We are trying to save lives of innocent babies. If and when Science proves the pill causes abortions, we will join you in being against any/all actual true abortion but for now, the RC and extremist propaganda will not make it.

**

 

[lwillo]

So true, Iwillo here is a small sample of their beliefs (I have to cut and paste because I can’t link to the site)

HERE IS ANOTHER BEAUTY
**

And this is the craziest yet:whacky:

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Karen,
Is that a quote from the link I found that article at? Because if it is, let’s get that off here!

 

[Karen1960]

Karen,
Is that a quote from the link I found that article at? Because if it is, let’s get that off here!

No it’s not from what you posted I’ll PM you with the site it is from

 

[Arwen037]

Although I’d have to say, there really shouldn’t be an issue about the pill causing an abortion. If you are using it right, then you won’t ovulate, therefore can’t conceive. If you aren’t using it right, how likely is it that you’re going to use it perfectly to conceive but not implant?

 

[Karen1960]

Although I’d have to say, there really shouldn’t be an issue about the pill causing an abortion. If you are using it right, then you won’t ovulate, therefore can’t conceive. If you aren’t using it right, how likely is it that you’re going to use it perfectly to conceive but not implant?

The point is that there is that possiblility, however slim.

Any form of ABC is morally wrong and against the Teachings of The Catholic Church and up until a few decades ago it was morally wrong for most Protestants,

 

[survive]

Microwave ovens?:bigyikes:Is there something I should know?

 

[Karen1960]

Microwave ovens?:bigyikes:Is there something I should know?

Naw That quote is from a rant fom some loony protestant (on another website-not here) who is trying to justify Birth control

Her entire rant on that website makes no sense. :whacky::whacky:

 

[By_His_Mercy]

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at this statement from a “Christian forum” that begins with a C and ends with a M

Karen, which thread on C----M? I started one there about a week or so ago…something like “Do Protestants still refuse to teach agains the Pill?”.
I got similar feedback…just rants about how our side can’t prove the pill causes abortions. But the Physician’s Desk Reference (PDR), many doctors, and the data in the pill packaging itself says that if ovulation and fertilization occurs, the pill works to prevent or hinder implantation! That’s the death of a human being with an eternal soul! Since human lives are at stake, you’d think the burden to prove this wouldn’t happen would be on them, right?

EDIT: I just checked over there and the thread has been deleted. It got really big, really fast. I’m sure it raised a lot of eyebrows, which is a good thing! We’ve got potential abortions going on with the pill, and for some reason, it’s being withheld from the pulpits…well, some pulpits.

 

[puzzleannie]

well I spent all weekend web-searching on this topic, I eschewed religious or political sites and looked only at medical sites, including FDA, PP, and the drug Mfgs themselves, and all the web md type of advice sites, and general answers.com type sites. search on the topic you will get all the hits I did, and they amount the to same thing. the drug mfg official warnings tell you not to take the pill or use the patch while pregnant because effect on fetus (note the language, not conceptus, not embryo, but fetus) have not been studied, but no direct harm to fetus has been documented. the harm they are referring to is a live infant born with detectable defects directly linked to mother’s use of contraceptive drugs and their effect on a developing fetus.

ALL the official warnings state that one action of contraceptive drugs is to directly prevent implantation of conceptus, or to make the uterine and tubal environment hostile to the conceptus. NONE of these sources concede that the conceptus, or even embryo (several days after conception) is a human being or even a fetus, so obviously none admit that failure to implant constitutes grave harm to the fetus.

It is all in the language.

I also looked only at pills, patches and injections intended as periodic birth control, not “emergency contraception” or “morning after” products, but do note that periodic bc (pill and patch or injections) also can be used in certain cases and dosages for that purpose.

the biggest victory the pro-deathers have achieved in the propaganda war, and the debates OP refers to on what should be pro-life sites bears this out, is denial of human status to conceptus or embryo before the fetal stage. Our war is one of language and to date the pro-life movement has largely ignored that battle, to our shame and detriment.

 

[By_His_Mercy]

ALL the official warnings state that one action of contraceptive drugs is to directly prevent implantation of conceptus, or to make the uterine and tubal environment hostile to the conceptus.

There’s evidence that the uterine pregnancies are affected more that tubal ones.

Randy Alcorn responded to an article which denied the risk of abortions with the pill…(see link and brief extraction below). In his response, he cited five studies that showed that the ratio of extrauterine (e.g., tubal) to interuterine pregnancies rose as a result of the pill. That means that either the pill is helping tubal pregnancies, or hurting uterine pregnancies. I think it very well could be the latter since we know it affects the endometrium in a negative way.

From here: epm.org/artman2/publish/prolife_birth_control_pill/Prolife_Ob_Gyn_s_January_1998_Statement.shtml

Dr. Walter Larimore is an Associate Clinical Professor of Family Medicine who has written over 150 medical articles in a wide variety of journals. Dr. Larimore, in a February 26, 1998 email to me, stated that if the Pill has no negative effect on the implantation process, then we should expect its reduction in the percentage of normal intrauterine pregnancies to equal its reduction in the percentage of extrauterine or ectopic (including tubal) pregnancies.

However, Dr. Larimore pointed out something highly significant–that published data from all of the studies dealing with this issue indicate that the ratio of extrauterine to intrauterine pregnancies among Pill-takers significantly exceeds that of non-Pill-takers. The five studies cited by Dr. Larimore show an increased risk of ectopic pregnancies in Pill takers who get pregnant is 70% to 1390% higher than non-Pill takers who get pregnant.

[The respective rates of increase in the five studies are 70%, 80%, 330%, 350% and 1390%. The studies, cited by Dr. Larimore in his email, are as follows:

(1) “A multinational case-control study of ectopic pregnancy,” *Clin Reprod Fertil

1985;3:131-143;
(2) Mol BWJ, Ankum WM, Bossuyt PMM, and Van der Veen F, “Contraception and the risk of ectopic pregnancy: a meta analysis,” Contraception 1995;52:337-341;
(3) Job-Spira N, Fernandez H, Coste J, Papiernik E, Spira A, “Risk of Chlamydia PID and oral contraceptives,” *J Am Med Assoc *1990;264:2072-4;
(4) Thorburn J, Berntsson C, Philipson M, Lindbolm B, “Background factors of ectopic pregnancy: Frequency distribution in a case-control study,” *Eur J Obstet Gynecol Reprod Biol *1986;23:321-331;
(5) Coste J, Job-Spira N, Fernandez H, Papiernik E, Spira A, “Risk factors for ectopic pregnancy: a case-control study in France, with special focus on infectious factors,” Am J Epidemiol 1991;133:839-49.]

What accounts for the Pill inhibiting intrauterine pregnancies at a disproportionately greater ratio than it inhibits extrauterine pregnancies? Dr. Larimore, who is a member of Focus on the Family’s Physicians Resource Council, believes the most likely explanation is that while the Pill does nothing to prevent a newly-conceived child from implanting in the wrong place (i.e. anywhere besides the endometrium) it may sometimes do something to prevent him from implanting in the right place (i.e. the endometrium).

What do you think?

 

[Rach620]

I know exactly which website you’re talking about, Karen. I got banned there for participating in the threads on birth control and NFP…the management doesn’t like to be told that they are wrong. The threads were butchered to the point that the original intent of the different posts relating to birth control/the Pill/NFP were all merged into one big anti-NFP party.

I was especially outraged by the line of argument that “NFP causes abortions, because NFP is so unreliable that that when women conceive while using NFP by following the Church’s teachings, they often go get abortions.” And you posted the fact that apparently the possibility of very early, Pill-induced miscarriages are not, according to them, “true abortions”.

I believe BHM was the one who made the clear argument that since there are doctors on both sides of the issue of whether the Pill causes early abortions, a sincere pro-life person should err on the side of caution and avoid risking harming their newly-conceived children through their chosen birth control method. This is the case even apart from discussing contraception vs. NFP, and it is demanded by a consistent pro-life ethic which regards human life as sacred from conception until natural death.

I believe that the reason most pro-choice websites say that there is no risk of abortion from using the Pill or Plan B is because they define pregnancy differently. They/the medical establishment consider pregnancy as beginning at implantation. But pro-lifers do not believe that life begins with pregnancy, but at conception. A mechanism which prevents a newly-conceived child from implanting in its mother’s womb is a chemical abortifacient–that’s just the honest truth.

Whether the Pill functions in this way is apparently an open question, but as the drug companies themselves state that it can work in this way, we should at least assume that it is a minimal risk. Even a .0001% risk is far too high when human life is on the line.

 

[By_His_Mercy]

I know exactly which website you’re talking about, Karen. I got banned there for participating in the threads on birth control and NFP…the management doesn’t like to be told that they are wrong.

Hi Rach620! Nice to see you over here. Btw, that whole thread has been deleted. First is was under the “RC” section…the board to discuss Catholic doctrine (which this truly is)…then got moved to “RC-other”…then it was deleted. Obviously they can’t handle the issue.

And you-know-who…the person saying embryos can implant anywhere…can’t explain why most do not implant in the tube! And the medical experts say something like 80% don’t implant in the uterus…meaning it’s a very delicate situation…which, in this case, is getting further complicated by artifical hormones at the wrong time that negatively impact the endometrium (thinning it).

I wish I had gotten back to you-know-who earlier…I had to put it off to this morning but the thread was gone.

Anyway, keep up the good fight!
-BHM

 

[Karen1960]

I know exactly which website you’re talking about, Karen. I got banned there for participating in the threads on birth control and NFP…the management doesn’t like to be told that they are wrong. The threads were butchered to the point that the original intent of the different posts relating to birth control/the Pill/NFP were all merged into one big anti-NFP party.

I was especially outraged by the line of argument that “NFP causes abortions, because NFP is so unreliable that that when women conceive while using NFP by following the Church’s teachings, they often go get abortions.” And you posted the fact that apparently the possibility of very early, Pill-induced miscarriages are not, according to them, “true abortions”.

I believe BHM was the one who made the clear argument that since there are doctors on both sides of the issue of whether the Pill causes early abortions, a sincere pro-life person should err on the side of caution and avoid risking harming their newly-conceived children through their chosen birth control method. This is the case even apart from discussing contraception vs. NFP, and it is demanded by a consistent pro-life ethic which regards human life as sacred from conception until natural death.

I believe that the reason most pro-choice websites say that there is no risk of abortion from using the Pill or Plan B is because they define pregnancy differently. They/the medical establishment consider pregnancy as beginning at implantation. But pro-lifers do not believe that life begins with pregnancy, but at conception. A mechanism which prevents a newly-conceived child from implanting in its mother’s womb is a chemical abortifacient–that’s just the honest truth.

Whether the Pill functions in this way is apparently an open question, but as the drug companies themselves state that it can work in this way, we should at least assume that it is a minimal risk. Even a .0001% risk is far too high when human life is on the line.

What that woman on that site does not bother to listen to and gave a violation amd later banned me because I said "of course there is no “actual” proof, because the action (failure to implant/abortion) occurs prior to the woman even knowning that she is pregnant.

Then she demanded “proof” I posted from various websites including webMD and was banned for “spamming”

I

 

[Karen1960]

Hi Rach620! Nice to see you over here. Btw, that whole thread has been deleted. First is was under the “RC” section…the board to discuss Catholic doctrine (which this truly is)…then got moved to “RC-other”…then it was deleted. Obviously they can’t handle the issue.

And you-know-who…the person saying embryos can implant anywhere…can’t explain why most do not implant in the tube! And the medical experts say something like 80% don’t implant in the uterus…meaning it’s a very delicate situation…which, in this case, is getting further complicated by artifical hormones at the wrong time that negatively impact the endometrium (thinning it).

I wish I had gotten back to you-know-who earlier…I had to put it off to this morning but the thread was gone.

Anyway, keep up the good fight!
-BHM

Isn’t that special with those people, it happened before, when they are backed into a corner, they just ban everyone and anyone, then quickly delete the thread when they are through.

 

[Karen1960]

Well the “pill thread” is back up and tailored to their special tastes

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Deleted several of the off topic, propaganda accusatory posts

In other words “Catholic truths have been removed”**