Pittsburgh Bishop Rejects Common Core Standards

[PietroPaolo]

The effects of a bad education take too long to show to have real feedback.

By the government - yes. Not by parents. You know when your child isn’t receiving the education they deserve quite quickly when it’s your child. Under a privatized system, you can move your child. Under the current system it takes far to long for a bad school to be corrected.

And how do the parents find out what is a good school?

The same way they find out which is a good pediatrician, a good plumber, a good restaurant, a good lawyer, a good anything else that isn’t dominated by a state imposed monopoly.

I’m not anti-choice, I just don’t worship freedumb or the -]golden calf/-] bronze bull by -]the temple of Mammon/-] Wall Street

Neither do I worship freedom. Of course, I also don’t offer incense on the altar of the Almighty State.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

By the government - yes. Not by parents. You know when your child isn’t receiving the education they deserve quite quickly when it’s your child. Under a privatized system, you can move your child. Under the current system it takes far to long for a bad school to be corrected.

Currently I can easily see which public schools provide a good educate through looking at state testing scores, it is a lot murkier when trying to examine the quality of private schools.

The same way they find out which is a good pediatrician, a good plumber, a good restaurant, a good lawyer, a good anything else that isn’t dominated by a state imposed monopoly.

A good restaurant has quick feedback, you know by the time you are done whether it was good or not, likewise for a lawyer. For a pediatrician and plumbers it is also straight forward. On the other hand for schools sometimes issues don’t show up until you try to move to on to another school or university.

Neither do I worship freedom. Of course, I also don’t offer incense on the altar of the Almighty State.

You substantially overestimate the competence of parents

 

[PietroPaolo]

…
You substantially overestimate the competence of parents

And here is the crux. You don’t trust parents to make these decisions for their own children, you’d rather see the government do so (showing that you “substantially overestimate the competence of” the gov’t). Thus, we shall never agree. I think, following the Catholic doctrine of subsidiarity, that the parents can and ought to be entrusted with making choices for their children. I’m Pro-Choice for parents (as long as it doesn’t involve homicide). You would rather see the gov’t make those choices. Of course the government has nothing but a failing record when it comes to so doing, but that is an ideological divide between us. Which is yet another reason to support vouchers. Those parents that think the government knows best, like you do, can keep their kids in the public schools. Those parents that realize no one knows the needs of their children better than the parents themselves would be free to move their children to another school.

 

[commenter]

Currently I can easily see which public schools provide a good educate through looking at state testing scores, it is a lot murkier when trying to examine the quality of private schools.
A good restaurant has quick feedback, you know by the time you are done whether it was good or not, likewise for a lawyer. For a pediatrician and plumbers it is also straight forward. On the other hand for schools sometimes issues don’t show up until you try to move to on to another school or university.
You substantially overestimate the competence of parents

Public school teachers are teaching to the tests - this has nothing to do with actual learning. The test scores tell nothing about the quality of the teaching. Teaching to the test means they figure out how they can boost students scores’ in a few months. It does not reflect any development of critical thinking skills, which are not measured on their kind of tests.
The purpose of education is not what happens in school, but life.
Parents are by far the most important teachers. What happens in school builds on the learning that happens in the home. Parent (name removed by moderator)ut is not in the Common Core. Public schools have been proven to be incompetent, and Common Core expands the worst elements of it, and stifles teacher and parent initiative and creativity.

 

[PietroPaolo]

Public school teachers are teaching to the tests - this has nothing to do with actual learning. The test scores tell nothing about the quality of the teaching. Teaching to the test means they figure out how they can boost students scores’ in a few months. It does not reflect any development of critical thinking skills, which are not measured on their kind of tests.
The purpose of education is not what happens in school, but life.
Parents are by far the most important teachers. What happens in school builds on the learning that happens in the home. Parent (name removed by moderator)ut is not in the Common Core. Public schools have been proven to be incompetent, and Common Core expands the worst elements of it, and stifles teacher and parent initiative and creativity.

 

[tunemerajana]

Sounds good, but what does it mean? Most states establish SOME sort of minimum curriculum requirements that tend to dictate how the textbooks get written. I’ve yet to come across a diocesan catholic school that doesn’t use the same sorts of Science, Social Studies, English and Math textbooks used by the public schools.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

I’ve got to say, IMHO, the headline is greatly misleading. Nowhere in the letter does the Bishop reject anything. He simply says that they are not currently using common core nor do they have plans to use it in the future. He points out that the local public schools aren’t even using it. He spends as much time in the letter addressing privacy concerns as he does orthodoxy.

Its a letter that appears to be in reply to concerned parents that don’t want Common Core. Nowhere in the letter does the Bishop make any judgment about Common Core, he merely states that diocesan schools don’t currently use it and have no plans to use it. The same could be said of any number of proposed education curriculums.

 

[PietroPaolo]

I’ve got to say, IMHO, the headline is greatly misleading. Nowhere in the letter does the Bishop reject anything. He simply says that they are not currently using common core nor do they have plans to use it in the future. He points out that the local public schools aren’t even using it. He spends as much time in the letter addressing privacy concerns as he does orthodoxy.

Its a letter that appears to be in reply to concerned parents that don’t want Common Core. Nowhere in the letter does the Bishop make any judgment about Common Core, he merely states that diocesan schools don’t currently use it and have no plans to use it. The same could be said of any number of proposed education curriculums.

I think it’s a bit more than that. He unequivocally states that the diocese is not using CC, which is itself a brave stand as increasing pressure is brought to bear for Catholic schools to adopt CC. He notes that the diocesan schools have higher standards already in place (which leaves little room to later move to CC), clearly states the overarching importance of orthodoxy in the school system, and repudiates reporting student data to the gov’t (which would be required to fully adopt CC). I see little room for CC to be adopted in Pittsburgh after this letter, that alone is cause for rejoicing.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

I think it’s a bit more than that. He unequivocally states that the diocese is not using CC, which is itself a brave stand as increasing pressure is brought to bear for Catholic schools to adopt CC. He notes that the diocesan schools have higher standards already in place (which leaves little room to later move to CC), clearly states the overarching importance of orthodoxy in the school system, and repudiates reporting student data to the gov’t (which would be required to fully adopt CC). I see little room for CC to be adopted in Pittsburgh after this letter, that alone is cause for rejoicing.

It doesn’t suggest to me any rejection of Common Core, he simply seems to prefer whatever model they are currently using. He’s directly addressing the concerns of parents who have contacted him expressing that they don’t want Common Core and have objections to it. He says they’re not using it and then points out that no one else in the area is even using it and that Catholic Schools can’t be forced to use it. It looks to me like he’s simply addressing this particular concerns of this specific group of parents. He says nothing really negative about Common Core nor does he give any indication that he agrees with the assessment of Common Core given by the parents. A more accurate headline would be: “Diocese says its not using Common Core” or “Diocese has no plans to use Common Core.” To say that the Bishop “rejects common core standards” is quite a reach, imho.

And I would also counter that he did in fact leave wiggle room to take up Common Core at a later time. Saying that he considers the current standards to be higher than Common Core’s is meaningless because he says earlier in the letter that Common Core sets minimum standards.

 

[PietroPaolo]

It doesn’t suggest to me any rejection of Common Core, he simply seems to prefer whatever model they are currently using. He’s directly addressing the concerns of parents who have contacted him expressing that they don’t want Common Core and have objections to it. He says they’re not using it and then points out that no one else in the area is even using it and that Catholic Schools can’t be forced to use it. It looks to me like he’s simply addressing this particular concerns of this specific group of parents. He says nothing really negative about Common Core nor does he give any indication that he agrees with the assessment of Common Core given by the parents. A more accurate headline would be: “Diocese says its not using Common Core” or “Diocese has no plans to use Common Core.” To say that the Bishop “rejects common core standards” is quite a reach, imho.

And I would also counter that he did in fact leave wiggle room to take up Common Core at a later time. Saying that he considers the current standards to be higher than Common Core’s is meaningless because he says earlier in the letter that Common Core sets minimum standards.

The difference between “we will not be using Common Core” and “we are rejecting Common Core” are so infinitesimally small as to make your comment seem to be nothing more than quibbling over semantics. At the end of the day, Pittsburgh will not be implementing the Common Core Standards. Catholic education in Pittsburgh will remain committed to both the privacy of the students and transmitting the Catholic Faith and the values that flow from it. If you feel more comfortable with a less strident word than reject, so be it, but it amounts to the difference between “half a dozen” and “six”, at least that’s my humble opinion.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

The difference between “we will not be using Common Core” and “we are rejecting Common Core” are so infinitesimally small as to make your comment seem to be nothing more than quibbling over semantics.

No, they are quite distinct. There’s a reason that the title of the blogpost used the word “reject.” There’s a great debate about Common Core and its “compatibility” with Catholic education. One side of the debate is trying to make it seem that this Bishop agrees with them. But there’s quite a bit of difference between saying I prefer Method A to Method B and saying Method B is terrible or unacceptable.

 

[ARSpade]

You substantially overestimate the competence of parents

Your apparent faith in the competence of the state amuses me.

I’d take the competence of parents over the competence of local, state, or Fed officials about, oh, 90% of the time.

And I work for the Feds.

 

[pnewton]

It is kind of ridiculous for an education system that is clicking on all cylinders to switch to something proposed in a different culture just for the sake of standardization. If Common Core was good, it should still not be accepted unless the local citizens deemed it good for them. Or, if they find it mostly helpful, adapt it to the local situation.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Your apparent faith in the competence of the state amuses me.

I’d take the competence of parents over the competence of local, state, or Fed officials about, oh, 90% of the time.

And I work for the Feds.

There is a Protestant private high school in my area that is substantially worse by most metrics than the public charter high school here and yet people still send their kids to that private school in droves.

With a public education system you at least can know the curriculum and see how well that is taught by the standardized testing that measures it. The major reason public schools do so poorly is lack of parental involvement.

 

[commenter]

There is a Protestant private high school in my area that is substantially worse by most metrics than the public charter high school here and yet people still send their kids to that private school in droves.

With a public education system you at least can know the curriculum and see how well that is taught by the standardized testing that measures it. The major reason public schools do so poorly is lack of parental involvement.

If the public schools were graded by the Protestant school’s “metrics” they likely would fail too. Why assume the public school’s metrics are the right ones for all?
A public school curriculum is not any more “knowable” than any private curriculum. It may be less knowable in a large district - you don’t always know what agendas the
State ed dept is pushing, as well as several layers of accountability. Or unaccountability, within the school.
The public schools in my area talk about “parent involvement” a lot. But that means warm bodies for various activities that help the school. It means nothing in terms of parent influence on the school. The Common Core reduces parent influence even more, because parents will be told “we have no choice; the Common Core process is controlled in Washington.”

 

[manualman]

There is no unsolvable conflict between vouchers and public schools. BOTH can flourish if implemented intelligently.

Here’s the absurdity of the current scenario. I send my three kids to catholic schools from k-8 and it costs me about $3,100 each per year. So by the time they are done, I will have spent about $83,700. The local public school district spends a total of somewhere around $9,000 on elementary ed kids apart from special ed (Overall gross is about $14k per kid, so I’m giving quite a bit of leeway for the special ed budget). Had I sent my three kids to public schools, they would incur another $243,000 in taxpayer costs that they now spend ZERO on since I chose catholic schools. In return I get a measly couple hundred dollars a year in state tax credits, but I’m charged around $7,000 PER YEAR on my real estate taxes to support the public schools (yes that’s JUST the schools portion).

This is insane and unjust. BOTH me AND the public schools would benefit from a LIMITED voucher program that reimbursed private school parents for $1,000 per student per year as long as that student scored at grade level on the same standardized tests the public schools use or met the remedial path goals set for the year by a district special ed specialist. Now if the public district was like mine and currently has about 5% of kids in private schools and the private school enrollment increased to fill all vacant seats it might rise to 7%. If there are 10,000 total kids in the district limit that means that the district currently spends 9,700 * $9,000 = $87million in annual operating costs. Under my partial voucher plan, the district enrollment would drop to 9,300 and (long term) annual costs would drop to 9,300 * $9,000 + (700*$1,000) = $84.4 million. Alternately, the district has an extra $2.6 million that they can use to restore stuff previously lost to budget cuts: art programs, music, vocational, etc.

Instead, they stubbornly insist on the current policy of increasing costs and de facto double taxation of private school parents, which results in steadily decreasing private school enrollment, increasing public school enrollment and subsequent tax increases to pay for the increased public school enrollment. Madness.

 

[pnewton]

This is insane and unjust. BOTH me AND the public schools would benefit from a LIMITED voucher program that reimbursed private school parents for $1,000 per student per year as long as that student scored at grade level on the same standardized tests the public schools use or met the remedial path goals set for the year by a district special ed specialist.

Here, we get no credits of our taxes. Yes, it is very unjust, especially to the poor or lower class who have no opportunity for choice in education.

 

[Dulcinea2721]

Can someone clarify this point…
1.Are catholic schools considered private in the USA?
2. You automatically pay a portion of your property taxes to the public system (IOW you do not get to choose public or catholic)

 

[zz912]

There is a Protestant private high school in my area that is substantially worse by most metrics than the public charter high school here and yet people still send their kids to that private school in droves.

With a public education system you at least can know the curriculum and see how well that is taught by the standardized testing that measures it. The major reason public schools do so poorly is lack of parental involvement.

Please name the schools involved. I’d like to see the metrics you claim.

It seems to me the “droves” of parents have access to the same info you do, and they still pay thousands of dollars out of their own pockets. So they have skin in the game, where you do not. I’m real curious to see what you base your supposedly superior wisdom on while looking down your nose at the stupid protestants.

 

[zz912]

Can someone clarify this point…
1.Are catholic schools considered private in the USA?
2. You automatically pay a portion of your property taxes to the public system (IOW you do not get to choose public or catholic)

1. Yes.
2. Yes, a portion of your property taxes fund the public school system. None of this money goes to Catholic or private schools.