Plan would eliminate tuition to UC's benefit

[TheTrueCentrist]

sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=%2Fc%2Fa%2F2012%2F01%2F18%2FBAF11MR30P.DTL

It’s not every day that University of California students tell UC President Mark Yudof to abolish tuition - and he says he’ll consider it.

But that’s exactly what happened at Wednesday’s regents meeting at UC Riverside, as Yudof praised the students’ tuition plan as “a constructive idea.”

“We will give it a close look,” he said. “I have directed Executive Vice President Nathan Brostrom and our best number crunchers to review it thoroughly.”

Read more: sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/01/18/BAF11MR30P.DTL#ixzz1jxPqMMLJ

 

[Ridgerunner]

Who, exactly, do they think should pay it for them?

 

[MugenOne]

I’m the product of UC education. I’m glad I turned out right.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Who, exactly, do they think should pay it for them?

Graduates would pay 5% of their wages to the university for a period of 20 years. So, each graduating class pays for the education of the next.

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

Graduates would pay 5% of their wages to the university for a period of 20 years. So, each graduating class pays for the education of the next.

It would also give the university incentive to produce graduates capable of achieving high-paying jobs.

 

[rlg94086]

It would also give the university incentive to produce graduates capable of achieving high-paying jobs.

I’ve had a little time to chew on this idea, and I’m struggling to see the downside. There would be no upfront costs to getting a degree, so the barrier to education would be removed. I guess there could be some abuse by perpetual students.

 

[Cascadian]

At first glance it seems silly, but on closer inspection it’s pretty interesting and creative, definitely gonna have to look into this more.

 

[Dale_M]

Hm… collecting money from the graduates, year after year, would be difficult. I think collection agencies would benefit greatly. Would a personal bankruptcy eliminate the obligation?

The program would likely cut into donations to the university from graduates, although I am unsure how much the UC system solicits from its grads.

Plus, the amount being suggested is staggeringly disproportionate to tuition cost. Putting together a loan package would probably be cheaper. If all students were forced into this 20 year debt program, I think applications to UC would drop.

And if students were given the option of paying tuition or being saddled with a 20 year debt, I could see where it would become a two-track system with only the poorest taking the debt. That would lead to political pressures to subsidize the unfair burden.

I dunno, perhaps UC President Mark Yudof can play around with the numbers and come up with something less onerous than what was proposed. But the idea is fairly radical. It might make sense to test it at one college or university before applying it to the entire UC system.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Plus, the amount being suggested is staggeringly disproportionate to tuition cost. Putting together a loan package would probably be cheaper. If all students were forced into this 20 year debt program, I think applications to UC would drop. ]

Tuition for a four year degree costs a total of $48,768 plus room and board. The median income in the United States is $49,777. So, the average amount of money they would contribute to the school over 20 years is $49,777. The difference is actually less than they would be paying in student loan debt (with interest).

 

[rlg94086]

Hm… collecting money from the graduates, year after year, would be difficult. I think collection agencies would benefit greatly. Would a personal bankruptcy eliminate the obligation?

The program would likely cut into donations to the university from graduates, although I am unsure how much the UC system solicits from its grads.

Plus, the amount being suggested is staggeringly disproportionate to tuition cost. Putting together a loan package would probably be cheaper. If all students were forced into this 20 year debt program, I think applications to UC would drop.

And if students were given the option of paying tuition or being saddled with a 20 year debt, I could see where it would become a two-track system with only the poorest taking the debt. That would lead to political pressures to subsidize the unfair burden.

I dunno, perhaps UC President Mark Yudof can play around with the numbers and come up with something less onerous than what was proposed. But the idea is fairly radical. It might make sense to test it at one college or university before applying it to the entire UC system.

Yeah. One problem would be that there is no way to pay off early. There isn’t a set amount, so you pay for 20 years…no exceptions.

 

[Trader]

Yeah. One problem would be that there is no way to pay off early. There isn’t a set amount, so you pay for 20 years…no exceptions.

Could I retire first and then work after the 20 years were up?

What if I get a job working outside the US?

Under this plan UC would benefit most from selecting only the best students. Admitting less qualified students in the name of diversity would be costly to the University.

It is an interesting idea, but there never was a system that could not be abused.

 

[Trader]

It would also give the university incentive to produce graduates capable of achieving high-paying jobs.

Yes, it could cause the university to prioritize the colleges of business, medicine, law, and engineering, but neglect the colleges of education and liberal arts.

There would also be huge transitional costs going from a pay now to a pay later model and the State of California is not exactly rolling in surplusses now.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I think this raises a lot of questions, but it’s useful to consider options.

What is owed by a student who starts college then drops out after a year or two?

What is owed by a student who graduates from UC but transferred there after starting someplace else?

When does a student start paying? After graduation? After attending a certain number of years? How do you deal with a part-time student who takes many years to graduate? How do you deal with someone who changes his major repeatedly and never quite progresses to graduation?

How do you deal with a student who doesn’t want to go into debt for an education? I managed to get through both undergraduate and graduate programs without loans and wouldn’t want to be obligated to pay for 20 years.

Is a student’s debt canceled if they die or are disabled and unable to work?

This plan assumes that someone will work for 20 years. How do you deal with a family that wants one spouse to stay home with the children?

If someone is independently wealthy and living off a trust fund do they end up owing nothing for their education? If someone works for a company and takes a token salary of $1 a year, with stock options and deferred salary, are they off the hook?

 

[rlg94086]

Could I retire first and then work after the 20 years were up?

That’s a pretty silly question IMO.

What if I get a job working outside the US?

This, on the other hand, is a very good question. What about foreign students who come here on a student visa? How do they attach wages overseas? That is a big flaw.

Trader:

Under this plan UC would benefit most from selecting only the best students. Admitting less qualified students in the name of diversity would be costly to the University.

I don’t think there would be an effect on that…in fact, it would help with minorities who are qualified but can’t afford to go to a University. They could still have quotas, programs, whatever they want to do to discriminate.

Trader:

It is an interesting idea, but there never was a system that could not be abused.

True.

 

[Trader]

Could I retire first and then work after the 20 years were up?

That’s a pretty silly question IMO.

It was meant to be a silly question when I first posted it, but while I was spending two hours shovelling snow from my driveway and from the driveway of my neighbor who almost took out the fire hydrant for the second time in a week, it hit me.

I have two sisters-in-law who both earned masters degrees, one in education and one in speech therapy. Both married and had six children. The teacher retired for almost 20 years and did a magnificent job of home schooling my six nieces. Two of them are now Catholic school teachers themselves, one a nurse married to a teacher, another a CPA married to an X-Ray technician, one a senior in college and the last a class leader in high school. The speech therapist has six younger children and has only worked part time for the last 13 years. Both women have great husbands who work very hard and they do without a lot of the luxuries they could have had as a two income family with no kids. How much would they pay under this plan?

 

[Trader]

It was meant to be a silly question when I first posted it, but while I was spending two hours shovelling snow from my driveway and from the driveway of my neighbor who almost took out the fire hydrant for the second time in a week, it hit me.

I have two sisters-in-law who both earned masters degrees, one in education and one in speech therapy. Both married and had six children. The teacher retired for almost 20 years and did a magnificent job of home schooling my six nieces. Two of them are now Catholic school teachers themselves, one a nurse married to a teacher, another a CPA married to an X-Ray technician, one a senior in college and the last a class leader in high school. The speech therapist has six younger children and has only worked part time for the last 13 years. Both women have great husbands who work very hard and they do without a lot of the luxuries they could have had as a two income family with no kids. How much would they pay under this plan?

The editing time limit expired before I realized how badly worded my first paragraph was. I should have said for the second time in a week, my neighbor almost took out the fire hydrant. She did not actually destroy it either time. I would also add that I am getting way too old to be pushing a minivan uphill through the snow to get it away from the fire hydrant.

 

[rlg94086]

It was meant to be a silly question when I first posted it, but while I was spending two hours shovelling snow from my driveway and from the driveway of my neighbor who almost took out the fire hydrant for the second time in a week, it hit me.

I have two sisters-in-law who both earned masters degrees, one in education and one in speech therapy. Both married and had six children. The teacher retired for almost 20 years and did a magnificent job of home schooling my six nieces. Two of them are now Catholic school teachers themselves, one a nurse married to a teacher, another a CPA married to an X-Ray technician, one a senior in college and the last a class leader in high school. The speech therapist has six younger children and has only worked part time for the last 13 years. Both women have great husbands who work very hard and they do without a lot of the luxuries they could have had as a two income family with no kids. How much would they pay under this plan?

You’re right! Not a silly question. I hadn’t thought of that. There are plenty of women (and some men) who have completed a degree and either never worked or only worked a short time before being a stay-at-home mom (dad).

 

[rlg94086]

The editing time limit expired before I realized how badly worded my first paragraph was. I should have said for the second time in a week, my neighbor almost took out the fire hydrant. She did not actually destroy it either time. I would also add that I am getting way too old to be pushing a minivan uphill through the snow to get it away from the fire hydrant.

Sounds like fun!

 

[Pork_Roll]

I think in the end it just will create more debt for our government and the people of California. There is no guarantee that these graduates will get decent paying jobs. To me, this is like promising people overly generous retirement benefits funded by unrealistic future returns on investments.

Besides, free college education will further the entitlement mentality of our country. Look how entitlements have all become economically unsustainable.

 

[Yerusalyim]

I’ve had a little time to chew on this idea, and I’m struggling to see the downside. There would be no upfront costs to getting a degree, so the barrier to education would be removed. I guess there could be some abuse by perpetual students.

But what is the incentive for a student to perform well and graduate? If GRADUATES pay 5% of their income, what’s to prevent me from taking 3 1/2 years to earn my degree at UC, transfer to UCCS in Colorado and finish my degree only paying for a semester. I’m not a graduate of UC so I don’t owe them a dime…but have gotten a degree all the same.

Further, what’s the incentive to do well? I can blow off that statistics class and take it again next term and it didn’t cost me anything.