Planned Parenthood senior official caught discussing business in fetal organs [CWN]

[jediliz]

Right.

That brings up an issue that a pro-abortion coworker of mine mentioned recently :
that if abortion is to be outlawed, birth control has to be widely provided.

I know the Church is against birth control and I don’t
expect the Church to change it’s stance on birth control.

But can we (personally) agree that birth control would be a far less evil than abortion?
To say to these pro- abortionists that we don’t want birth control, either,
would make them close their minds to the evils of abortion, I think.

You do know the pill is a level one carcinogen? And that schools in the Seattle area were recently inserting IUDs in girls as young as 12 without their parents knowing? How would artificial hormones be BETTER?

We need to get rid of P.P. style sex ed. And then talk about self control and monogamous relationships. Commitments not casual.

 

[sarah_j]

Yes, we can acknowledge that contraception is a lesser sin than killing a child, but it is still a GRAVE evil.

Thank you for answering my question. That’s what I thought, but wanted
to make sure that’s correct.

And thanks for all the other replies. I do know the stand of the Church on contraceptives,
and about abortifacients, Humanae vitae, etc. and I have no argument with any of that.

These hard-core supporters of abortion whom I am talking about think it’s crazy to limit abortion
if you are also against birth control. They are largely NOT Catholics, or even Christians!

• so quoting Humanae Vita to them will go exactly nowhere.

So I am wondering how to answer their point : “Well, if you limit abortion then
you have to support birth control” - while staying true to the Church’s teachings and
at the same time not turning them completely off to the idea of further limits on abortion.
I guess, as zz912 said, I could acknowledge that it would be better than abortion.

 

[estesbob]

Thank you for answering my question. That’s what I thought, but wanted
to make sure that’s correct.

And thanks for all the other replies. I do know the stand of the Church on contraceptives,
and about abortifacients, Humanae vitae, etc. and I have no argument with any of that.

These hard-core supporters of abortion whom I am talking about think it’s crazy to limit abortion
if you are also against birth control. They are largely NOT Catholics, or even Christians!

• so quoting Humanae Vita to them will go exactly nowhere.

So I am wondering how to answer their point : “Well, if you limit abortion then
you have to support birth control” - while staying true to the Church’s teachings and
at the same time not turning them completely off to the idea of further limits on abortion.
I guess, as zz912 said, I could acknowledge that it would be better than abortion.

It would be better if they not had sex in the first place

 

[anthony022071]

thefederalist.com/2015/07/20/feds-paid-baby-organ-harvesting-doc-for-advice-on-healthy-baby-births/

EXCLUSIVE: Feds Paid Baby Organ-Harvesting Doc For Advice On ‘Healthy Baby’ Births

Deborah Nucatola—the Planned Parenthood doc with the stone-cold heart and the lucrative skill of “crushing” babies in just the right spot—has been advising the Obama administration on family planning policy since 2010.

From April 2010 through April 2014, Nucatola was one of several experts the U.S. Health and Human Services Office of Population Affairs (OPA) and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Division of Reproductive Health tasked with creating federal guidelines for “quality family planning services.” A member of the “Expert Work Group” and the “Technical Panel on Clinical Women’s Services,” Nucatola was actively engaged in the “multistage process” that produced the government’s 2014 report, “Providing Quality Family Planning Services” (QFP).

Her responsibilities as a “technical” consultant and an “expert” included analyzing research summaries and professional advisories, providing “individual feedback” on the government’s initial recommendations, “reviewing” the CDC-OPA staff’s “core recommendations,” giving her expert “opinion,” and then approving the recommendations. (See the report’s appendices for the names of Expert Work Group members and technical experts, and detailed descriptions of the experts’ involvement in formulating the report’s recommendations.)

What’s the goal of those government recommendations? To help “clients…achieve their desired number and spacing of children and increase the likelihood that those children are born healthy.”

Leave it to the Obama administration to tap an abortionist for “expert” advice on ensuring that children are “born healthy”—an abortionist, mind you, who relishes butchering a “17-weeker” and bagging up a tiny infant’s “heart, lung, liver” to sell for a few extra bucks…>

 

[oneofmany]

PP has always said they need abortions as a back up to their birth control… One woman on youtube even said they give a less strong dose of BC so the girls come back for an abortion. That is where the money is.

Also, in the second tape did you notice the woman answered about the baby/fetus feeling pain. She said she thought the patient didn’t care one iota about that. OF COURSE, THEY NEVER TELL THE PATIENTS ANYTHING ABOUT THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Really evil people.

Interesting if we did a search on how these body parts are being used. I know a poster said it is used in some immunizations so she didn’t get those for her child.

So what other places are they used?

 

[PRmerger]

These hard-core supporters of abortion whom I am talking about think it’s crazy to limit abortion
if you are also against birth control.

Well, since the Birth Control Pill doesn’t always prevent a new little life from forming (because an egg is still released often), it does cause an abortion when it prevents the new little person from implanting.

So I guess these hard-core supporters of abortion are really talking about condoms and surgical mutilation?

 

[_Abyssinia]

Governor Sam Brownback calls for inspections of Planned Parenthood and abortion facilities in Kansas

governor.ks.gov/media-room/media-releases/2015/07/21/governor-sam-brownback-calls-for-inspections-of-planned-parenthood-and-abortion-facilities-in-kansas

 

[sarah_j]

Well, since the Birth Control Pill doesn’t always prevent a new little life from forming (because an egg is still released often), it does cause an abortion when it prevents the new little person from implanting.

So I guess these hard-core supporters of abortion are really talking about condoms and surgical mutilation?

It’s been my experience that when a pro-abortion person says,
“Well, if you want to outlaw abortion, it only makes sense to support birth control”
what they mean by birth control is the pill, condoms, IUD, etc.
All of the contraceptive measures that the Church opposes.
Abortion advocates make a distinction between surgical abortion and contraception,
as does the Church.

When the Church says that participating in an abortion will earn you excommunication,
it isn’t talking about the birth control pill. An IUD also prevents implantation, and so
does the morning after pill. But, unless I am wrong, the Church makes a distinction
between those forms of contraception and a surgical abortion.

Contraception is a sin for a Catholic, but participating in a surgical abortion causes you to

be excommunicated.

"Paul VI was courageous. He was a good pastor, and he warned his sheep about the wolves that were approaching, and from the heavens he blesses us today.”
From all that’s happened recently,it looks like the wolves are at the doorstep.

catholicnewsagency.com/news/paul-vi-was-right-to-warn-against-contraception-pope-francis-says-71589/

 

[PRmerger]

It’s been my experience that when a pro-abortion person says,
“Well, if you want to outlaw abortion, it only makes sense to support birth control”
what they mean by birth control is the pill, condoms, IUD, etc.

And you should say to her, “Well, you can see how it makes sense that a person who’s against abortion would be against the Pill, right, since it can cause a new little person to be killed when it can’t implant?”

Abortion advocates make a distinction between surgical abortion and contraception,

But they shouldn’t, at least in the case of the Pill causing abortions.

as does the Church.

Well, yes and no. She doesn’t make a distinction between abortion and the Pill as far as saying one kills a new life and one doesn’t. She says, “Both kill a new person. There is no distinction there!”

When the Church says that participating in an abortion will earn you excommunication,
it isn’t talking about the birth control pill.

This is correct. But if you take the Pill with the intent to kill your new human person, it would indeed earn you an excommunication.

An IUD also prevents implantation, and so
does the morning after pill. But, unless I am wrong, the Church makes a distinction
between those forms of contraception and a surgical abortion.

Again, see above.

Contraception is a sin for a Catholic, but participating in a surgical abortion causes you to
be excommunicated.

Indeed.

And so would contracepting with the intent of killing that new person you just made.

 

[sarah_j]

And you should say to her, “Well, you can see how it makes sense that a person who’s against abortion would be against the Pill, right, since it can cause a new little person to be killed when it can’t implant?”

Thank you! That’s a good explanation for not supporting use of the IUD or
morning after pill.
However, I thought the pill stopped ovulation, not implantation.

This is correct. But if you take the Pill with the intent to kill your new human person, it would indeed earn you an excommunication.
And so would contracepting with the intent of killing that new person you just made.

But it’s not possible to know that an egg had been fertilized and a new person just made.
How could someone have the intent of killing the little fertilized egg, when
they couldn’t know that it exists?

On the other hand, use of an IUD is intended to stop implantation,
as is the morning after pill.
The Church considers those to be cause for excommunication?
I have never heard that use of any contraceptives will cause excommunication.

The Cathecism talks about a “procured abortion” :

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

 

[PRmerger]

Thank you! That’s a good explanation for not supporting use of the IUD or
morning after pill.
However, I thought the pill stopped ovulation, not implantation.

Because women experienced so many horrible side effects from the hormones in the Pill, the manufacturers decreased the chemicals, and because of that, there is the chance that ovulation occurs, but implantation is thwarted.

From the package insert of Yasmin

“COCs lower the risk of becoming pregnant primarily by suppressing ovulation. Other possible mechanisms may include cervical mucus changes that inhibit sperm penetration and endometrial changes that reduce the likelihood of implantation.”
accessdata.fda.gov/drugsa…098s019lbl.pdf

 

[PRmerger]

But it’s not possible to know that an egg had been fertilized and a new person just made.
How could someone have the intent of killing the little fertilized egg, when
they couldn’t know that it exists?

Egg-zactly. (Ha!)

So that’s why no woman is excommuncated for using the Pill, but could be for procuring a surgical abortion.

Even if both do indeed kill new baby human beings.

On the other hand, use of an IUD is intended to stop implantation,
as is the morning after pill.
The Church considers those to be cause for excommunication?

If the intention is to kill that human person, then yes.

 

[zz912]

Thank you for answering my question. That’s what I thought, but wanted
to make sure that’s correct.

And thanks for all the other replies. I do know the stand of the Church on contraceptives,
and about abortifacients, Humanae vitae, etc. and I have no argument with any of that.

These hard-core supporters of abortion whom I am talking about think it’s crazy to limit abortion
if you are also against birth control. They are largely NOT Catholics, or even Christians!

• so quoting Humanae Vita to them will go exactly nowhere.

So I am wondering how to answer their point : “Well, if you limit abortion then
you have to support birth control” - while staying true to the Church’s teachings and
at the same time not turning them completely off to the idea of further limits on abortion.
I guess, as zz912 said, I could acknowledge that it would be better than abortion.

Or you could respond that sex promiscuity, STD’s and out of wedlock births skyrocketed with contraception usage. So you can oppose both simply from a naturalistic viewpoint for atheist friends to understand.

Contraception and abortion both flow from the same mindset, that there should be no consequences from my sexual actions, which is a myth and lie. There always will be. The promises of contraception don’t always pan out, and there are other harmful consequences that arise instead.

 

[sarah_j]

Or you could respond that sex promiscuity, STD’s and out of wedlock births skyrocketed with contraception usage. So you can oppose both simply from a naturalistic viewpoint for atheist friends to understand.

Contraception and abortion both flow from the same mindset, that there should be no consequences from my sexual actions, which is a myth and lie. There always will be. The promises of contraception don’t always pan out, and there are other harmful consequences that arise instead.

Thank you, zz912 and PRmerger, et al. for the helpful info and suggestions.

 

[PRmerger]

Contraception and abortion both flow from the same mindset, that there should be no consequences from my sexual actions, which is a myth and lie. There always will be. The promises of contraception don’t always pan out, and there are other harmful consequences that arise instead.

Indeed.

Contraception is the theory. Abortion is the practice.

They are the fruit (or perhaps the seed) of the lie: “We all get to have sex without a baby ever entering the picture”.

 

[_Abyssinia]

DOJ to review Planned Parenthood videos

thehill.com/policy/healthcare/248868-doj-to-review-information-around-planned-parenthood-videos

Pelosi urges DOJ probe into group targeting Planned Parenthood

thehill.com/policy/healthcare/248946-pelosi-joins-call-for-doj-probe-into-group-targeting-planned-parenthood

AG Maura Healey will review Planned Parenthood practices

bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_politics/2015/07/ag_maura_healey_will_review_planned_parenthood_practices

 

[oneofmany]

Matt Walsh

On July 28th there will be rallies around the country calling for the immediate defunding of Planned Parenthood. I’ll be speaking at the DC event, along with many others. Please come out if you can, if not to DC then one of the other cities. Follow the link to find out more about the rally and the other locations.

If we can’t finally take funding away from this indefensible, evil, rotten, despicable organization after these latest revelations, then we never will. The time is now. Enough is enough. Hope to see you all there:

womenbetrayed.com

 

[Path_Finder]

Matt Walsh

On July 28th there will be rallies around the country calling for the immediate defunding of Planned Parenthood. I’ll be speaking at the DC event, along with many others. Please come out if you can, if not to DC then one of the other cities. Follow the link to find out more about the rally and the other locations.

If we can’t finally take funding away from this indefensible, evil, rotten, despicable organization after these latest revelations, then we never will. The time is now. Enough is enough. Hope to see you all there:

womenbetrayed.com

Thanks, the family council here as well sent us out an email about this rally so they are around the nation. Nice website I haven’t see as well. Thanks.

 

[Path_Finder]

Actually, the videos are going to get worse:

Undercover Videomaker: ‘Even Worse’ Planned Parenthood Videos Coming

Center for* Medical Progress founder David Daleiden says his group has hundreds or thousands of hours of undercover video of abortion providers that will be released in the coming weeks and months*, and that some of it is “even worse” than the two videos already aired to the public.

Shot over the past two-and-a-half years, the group has “dozens upon dozens” of hours of “the really, really shocking compelling stuff,” Daleiden told Fox News Channel’s “Hannity” on Wednesday.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com newsmax.com/Newsfront/planned-parenthood-undercover-videos/2015/07/22/id/658496/#ixzz3glI0NRNk

!

 

[Cirdan_XII]

If I were hiding Jews during Nazi occupied Germany and had to lie about it, does that make me deceitful or rather have I done something wrong?

p.s. Those who saved Jews despite the enormity of deceit and subterfuge involved are considered heroes for what they did.

I see where you’re going, but I’m not 100% convinced.

To spin the Nazi argument a bit further.

If I were hiding Jews in Nazi Germany and a situation arose where the only way to prevent my secret being discovered was to kill somebody. Would that still be OK?

If your answer is yes, have you just constructed a justification for those who kill PP workers or bomb their premises?

People killed on death row (no matter how evil theri crime) are given time to repent, seek forgiveness, confer with a priest and receive sacraments and can thus still be saved if they so wish. Somebody killed in the middle of an evil act is going straight to Hell. So if you do that you are responsible for sending them to Hell? Am I mistaken?