Planned Parenthood senior official caught discussing business in fetal organs [CWN]

[Jeanne_S]

Egg-zactly. It’s the intentionally part which I took issue with in Jeanne’s statement.

Who knows?

Really?Did you bother to read a prior post by me on this thread re PP doing abortions on women who weren’t even pregnant?I saw a video of testimonies to this fact by doctors and nurses who were involved in this practice.So considering this,why is it so hard for you or EstesBob to believe that PP would intentionally provide inferior contraceptives.No need to shoot the messenger

 

[PRmerger]

Really?Did you bother to read a prior post by me on this thread re PP doing abortions on women who weren’t even pregnant?

I don’t see how you can conclude from that (if it’s even true) that PP intentionally gives substandard condoms out.

I saw a video of testimonies to this fact by doctors and nurses who were involved in this practice.So considering this,why is it so hard for you or EstesBob to believe that PP would intentionally provide inferior contraceptives

Because it’s, thus far, an unsubstantiated assertion.

Saying someone intentionally commits ill-will is a very dangerous assertion that’s against the 8th commandment.

So if one is going to do this, one ought to be very very sure about it.

I’m not saying that you have violated the 8th commandment, BTW. I am simply saying that you ought to be very, very, very, very certain that it’s true if you’re going to assert it.

.No need to shoot the messenger

Disagreeing with your, or. rather, simply questioning if what you’re saying is correct…is not at all “shooting the messenger.”

 

[Jeanne_S]

I don’t see how you can conclude from that (if it’s even true) that PP intentionally gives substandard condoms out.

Because it’s, thus far, an unsubstantiated assertion.

Saying someone intentionally commits ill-will is a very dangerous assertion that’s against the 8th commandment.

So if one is going to do this, one ought to be very very sure about it.

I’m not saying that you have violated the 8th commandment, BTW. I am simply saying that you ought to be very, very, very, very certain that it’s true if you’re

Oh gee,how very charitable of you

 

[PRmerger]

Oh gee,how very charitable of you

Sarcasm is the protest of the weak, Jeanne.

I rarely use it.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Sarcasm is the protest of the weak, Jeanne.

I rarely use it.

That is pretty obvious !

 

[_Abyssinia]

The real scandal is that his kind of badly-edited video is used as a pretext for doing something immensely damaging.

What goes through the minds of people who have a mindset that says “I’ll defund major health organisation that helps millions of women every year, is widely supported by a majority of Americans, and gives serious medical attention to women who need it, for me - because less than 5% of their money is spent on abortion, an issue which, like it or not, was settled by the Supreme Court over 40 years ago?”

Instead of thinking about an issue, this thread, the others on CAF and lots of other places, in the media, and in general conversation, isn’t about thinking at all. it’s just a feeling. A reaction.

Yes this is a Catholic site, and yes there is a teaching on contraception (let’s not split hairs about abortifacient contraceptives for now, nor bring up the fact that getting on for 70% of ‘faithful’ Catholic women, married or not, in reputedly excellent standing with the Church, are using non-natural contraception). But if you put a condom on, 15% of 98% of the time, you will literally not conceive (which is to say, pretty much always). If you don’t conceive, you very rarely tend to want to get an abortion.

Planned Parenthood has quite probably prevented more abortions than everyone who opposes the organisation put together.

**

Random thoughts, and I’m not saying I actually necessarily agree with all of the above, but sometimes the bigger picture is important.

You bring up the issue of contraception being abortifacient, and this issue should be part of the debate. Although there is not a unified view on this, the issue is out there. From The Association of Pro Life Obstetricians and Gynaecologists:

Included here are two papers, carefully researched and compiled by several members of the AAPLOG board (Birth Control Pill: Abortifacient and Contraceptive and Hormone Contraceptives Controversies and Clarifications). These papers come to different conclusions about the possible abortifacient effect of oral contraceptives, reflecting in a microcosm the controversy that has recently surrounded this issue in the larger pro-life community.

aaplog.org/position-and-papers/oral-contraceptive-controversy/

Where do you get you get the statistic that 5% of Planned Parenthood’s money is spent on abortion?

 

[estesbob]

Where do you get you get the statistic that 5% of Planned Parenthood’s money is spent on abortion?

I know that this bogus statistic is of quoted but what if it were true? THEY ARE KILLING 400,000 CHILDREN A YEAR!!! What can possibly mitigate such consummate evil?

 

[grotto]

Egg-zactly. It’s the intentionally part which I took issue with in Jeanne’s statement.

Who knows?

---

Planned Parenthood does not deserve “fairness”, accidentally or on purpose!

They slaughter babies and cut them apart, while they are ALIVE AND GROWING!! Do you REALLY think a person must be very, very, very certain they are totally accurate before mentioning they have been known to pass out defective/cheap condoms to predominately teens and other candidates for their abortion mills? Wanna remind me that you are a strong poster who disdains the use of sarcasm because you think its a tool of the weak? :frighten:

Premeditated murder and conspiracy to commit murder, slavery (sale of human body parts
taken from live infants) - no sarcasm here! Drop the petty political correctness please.

 

[PRmerger]

---

Planned Parenthood does not deserve “fairness”, accidentally or on purpose!

This is 100%, categorically, without a doubt FALSE.

Not to mention contrary to the Christian ethos.

We are not to bear false witness, even if its against an organization that…[fill in the blank with whatever vile activity you wish].

 

[Jeanne_S]

---

Planned Parenthood does not deserve “fairness”, accidentally or on purpose!

They slaughter babies and cut them apart, while they are ALIVE AND GROWING!! Do you REALLY think a person must be very, very, very certain they are totally accurate before mentioning they have been known to pass out defective/cheap condoms to predominately teens and other candidates for their abortion mills? Wanna remind me that you are a strong poster who disdains the use of sarcasm because you think its a tool of the weak? :frighten:

Premeditated murder and conspiracy to commit murder, slavery (sale of human body parts
taken from live infants) - no sarcasm here! Drop the petty political correctness please.

Thank you!My thoughts exactly!

 

[Jeanne_S]

This is 100%, categorically, without a doubt FALSE.

Not to mention contrary to the Christian ethos.

We are not to bear false witness, even if its against an organization that…[fill in the blank with whatever vile activity you wish].

First and foremost ,what do you think you are doing towards me?If nothing else,you have strongly implied that I am putting forth falsehoods about PPHow did you come to this conclusion?Just because you don’t want to believe what I stated,then it must be a falsehood?Really?

 

[PRmerger]

First and foremost ,what do you think you are doing towards me?If nothing else,you have strongly implied that I am putting forth falsehoods about PPHow did you come to this conclusion?Just because you don’t want to believe what I stated,then it must be a falsehood?Really?

I am simply asking if you have some info that PP knew that they were knowingly deceiving their clients with regard to giving them defective condoms.

You have yet to provide a source for this. In fact, the source provided says the OPPOSITE of what you assert.

So if you have some info that demonstrates that PP knowingly and deliberately offers defective condoms, I’ll review it.

And, if it’s credible, I will then go on record, here, and in my RL conversations, saying, “PP knowingly deceives its clients into thinking they are giving them non-defective condoms!”

Show me the source, and I’ll be with you on this.

Right now…you’ve offered…NOTHING.

 

[Jeanne_S]

I am simply asking if you have some info that PP knew that they were knowingly deceiving their clients with regard to giving them defective condoms.

You have yet to provide a source for this. In fact, the source provided says the OPPOSITE of what you assert.

So if you have some info that demonstrates that PP knowingly and deliberately offers defective condoms, I’ll review it.

And, if it’s credible, I will then go on record, here, and in my RL conversations, saying, “PP knowingly deceives its clients into thinking they are giving them non-defective condoms!”

Show me the source, and I’ll be with you on this.

Right now…you’ve offered…NOTHING.

Actually the report stated that in fact PP used inferior condoms,it was only after this was brought to PP attention did they feign ignorance and improve the quality of their condoms.Having said that,if you google facts supporting inferior condoms PP there are numerous articles supporting that.In the meantime,I would appreciate you not shaking your virtual finger at me for what you perceive as my possible sin against the eighth Commandmants.Thank you.

 

[PRmerger]

Actually the report stated that in fact PP used inferior condoms,it was only after this was brought to PP attention did they feign ignorance and improve the quality of their condoms.

Ok. So can you offer the source how you know they feigned ignorance?

As I said, I will convert to your position if you offer a source.

Otherwise, what I am doing is bearing false witness…and I try my best not to ever do that, it being a mortal sin and all that.

At this point I have NO IDEA what PP knew and what they didn’t know.

So give me the way you know what PP folks know, and I’ll be with you on this.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Ok. So can you offer the source how you know they feigned ignorance?

As I said, I will convert to your position if you offer a source.

Otherwise, what I am doing is bearing false witness…and I try my best not to ever do that, it being a mortal sin and all that.

At this point I have NO IDEA what PP knew and what they didn’t know.

So give me the way you know what PP folks know, and I’ll be with you on this.

You are just being nit picky re this issue.So,we will have to just let this rest.I think that if it walks like a duck,quacks like a duck…you get the picture.PP has been exposed for the vile entity that they are.Why it is such a stretch for you to believe that abortion is their bottom line,they were ,at least until the whistle was blown on them,perform phones abortions.Resulting in clients having to get another test outside of PP,before they can now do abortions.Why wouldn’t the distribute inferior contraceptive as well?Usually,where there is smoke,there is fire.These issues usually are brought to light because they are factual.

 

[PRmerger]

You are just being nit picky re this issue.So,we will have to just let this rest.I think that if it walks like a duck,quacks like a duck…you get the picture.PP has been exposed for the vile entity that they are.Why it is such a stretch for you to believe that abortion is their bottom line,they were ,at least until the whistle was blown on them,perform phones abortions.

Ummmm…because bearing false witness is a big deal to me. I don’t want anyone doing it to me, and I surely don’t want to do it against anyone else.

Resulting in clients having to get another test outside of PP,before they can now do abortions.Why wouldn’t the distribute inferior contraceptive as well?Usually,where there is smoke,there is fire.These issues usually are brought to light because they are factual.

What is probably factual is that they gave out some defective condoms.

What’s in question is whether they knew about it.

And it really sounds like, from your posts here and after repeated questions from me, that you have no source for your claim that they delibertely offered defective condoms.

Now, give me something that I can use when someone asks me, “How do you know that PP was aware of these defective condoms but chose to give them out anyway, because they want the girl to get pregnant so they can offer her an abortion and make money?”

and I will be able to say, "Oh…here is the evidence for that. I try to never make accusations, esp. with something as horrific as that, without evidence. So here it is: an email from the PP director to all of her affiliates that says, ‘We want defective condoms. We give them out intentionally so the girls get pregnant. It’s good for business, ha, ha!’ "

Or something like that.

Now, all I’ll have when someone asks me (and rightly so, I might add!): how do you know that they did this deliberately…

is my cute little smiley face and a shrug to go with it.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Ummmm…because bearing false witness is a big deal to me. I don’t want anyone doing it to me, and I surely don’t want to do it against anyone else.

What is probably factual is that they gave out some defective condoms.

What’s in question is whether they knew about it.

And it really sounds like, from your posts here and after repeated questions from me, that you have no source for your claim that they delibertely offered defective condoms.

Now, give me something that I can use when someone asks me, “How do you know that PP was aware of these defective condoms but chose to give them out anyway, because they want the girl to get pregnant so they can offer her an abortion and make money?”

and I will be able to say, "Oh…here is the evidence for that. I try to never make accusations, esp. with something as horrific as that, without evidence. So here it is: an email from the PP director to all of her affiliates that says, ‘We want defective condoms. We give them out intentionally so the girls get pregnant. It’s good for business, ha, ha!’ "

Or something like that.

Now, all I’ll have when someone asks me (and rightly so, I might add!): how do you know that they did this deliberately…

is my cute little smiley face and a shrug to go with it.

Let’s not beat a dead horse .You need absolute ,undeniable proof that PP hands out inferior contraceptives.I guess for me their track record is such,they have been caught in soooo many deceptive practices,that I feel pretty confident in thinking,yeah,I wouldn’t put it past them.So,there you have it.You want to err on the side of caution give them the benefit of the doubt.I on the other hand come from the school of ,fool me once…shame on you,foolme twice shame on me!

 

[Murmurs]

You bring up the issue of contraception being abortifacient, and this issue should be part of the debate. Although there is not a unified view on this, the issue is out there. From The Association of Pro Life Obstetricians and Gynaecologists:

aaplog.org/position-and-papers/oral-contraceptive-controversy/

Where do you get you get the statistic that 5% of Planned Parenthood’s money is spent on abortion?

Well in 2009 and 2013 it was more like 3% but let’s say 5% anyway.

%between%

issuu.com/actionfund/docs/annual_report_final_proof_12.16.14_/0

Abortion represents about 3-5% of PP’s total services (it may be more than 5% of its costs, I’m not sure, but that’s largely irrelevant). Roughly 1/10 of PP clients received an abortion. While PP does of course get federal funding (and lots of it), by law those funds can’t be used for abortions anyway.

(As has been pointed out, we can factor in something like a million rounds of emergency contraception if we like, which would bring it to about 15-16% of total services. Which still doesn’t make PP all and only about abortion).

I know that this bogus statistic is of quoted but what if it were true? THEY ARE KILLING 400,000 CHILDREN A YEAR!!! What can possibly mitigate such consummate evil?

Nothing, but that’s not the point. For supporters of abortion, it’s a philosophical question of when the life of the unborn child starts to take precedence over the rights of the living mother. The vast majority of pro-life people support abortion in cases of medical emergency, if pregnancy is the result of rape, etc which means that nearly everyone is actually in favour of killing children, just under different circumstances. Conversely, you’d be extremely hard pressed to find someone who is pro-choice and advocated sex selective abortion under any circumstances whatsoever (ok so someone will write back and find a nutjob who argues just that, but I mean a reasonable person). So actually, everyone is in favour of abortion restrictions.

The abortion debate is about where to draw the line, not whether or not it should be ever allowed…that is something I think you will find few people tend to point out.

 

[PRmerger]

Let’s not beat a dead horse .You need absolute ,undeniable proof that PP hands out inferior contraceptives.

You need to re-read my posts, Jeanne.

I have already stated, multiple times, that I do believe that they gave out defective condoms.

What I have stated also, multiple times as well, is that I would like some source that says that they KNEW about this.

Please go over our entire conversation again so you have some clarity about my position.

At any rate, it’s clear you have no idea that they knew about this.

 

[Elizium23]

nearly everyone is actually in favour of killing children, just under different circumstances.

If 99 people jump off a cliff, are you going to be the 100th to follow?