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holdencaulfield
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I really like Pope Benedict XVI so I think he is the best thing that has happened for the Church in a long time.
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bkovacs
Guest
Look at the Jesuits!. Why is it that there are no TLMs within 10 miles of my area (Philadelphia Archdiocese). I asked every priest at all the local parishes, when they would use the EF and they all basically laughed at me. They don’t care what the Pope wants. Hence why I now go to an Orthodox Church!. And will probably stay there.
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teadough
Guest
Do you “bail” anytime things don’t go the way you want them to? Do you not believe that God is in control?
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childofmary1143
Guest
While Solemn exorcism should be left to the Holy Orders, as lay people we can pray the Exorcism prayer that Pope Leo XIII composed. However when I read this story I don’t see any compelling evidence that the wife was possessed. How do we really know that demons were actually at play here. If I were to bet on demonic influence, I would say that they were in the husband to do what he did.
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LaLucia
Guest
Most priests don’t want to do exorcisms because it is very dangerous. Some exorcisms take hours and hours to get rid of the demons. It takes a toll on the priests who are specialists. Yes, they do need extra training. Plus they spend a few days fasting and confess as many sins as they can remember because any sin that they forgot to confess… the devil will throw it in their face and shame them. The devils goal is to weaken them. Some priests have gotten into car accidents caused by the demons before they even get to the house where the exorcism takes place.
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CatholicCid
Guest
An exorcist I’ve heard before and I believe in Fr. Amorth’s book, they state that they would never perform the Ritual for over 20 minutes or so at a time due to the strain of it. So, while it may take many hours, they would actually be broken up over repeat visits, in possibly weeks and months.
Any sins not willfully omitted during a Confession are still forgiven. The devil does not know them because of the Absolution of the Confession, even if the Priest forgets to confess them. Any penitent should of course bring up past forgotten sins in confession as a sign of humility, but the sins were still forgiven after the past confession.
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bkovacs
Guest
Well if I want to go to church on Sundays and pray at the Saturday Vespers yes. And go to a church that is traditional and believes in what I believe to be a great liturgical life yes. I’m not going to sit through a Mass, that shows no reverence and thinks guitar music is so great. As well as no incense, not many candles, people wanting to run up to the altar to do the job of a priest. Yes I will bail for what I think is right.
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catharina
Guest
Are you saying too that if only a non-TLM were available to you, maybe while you were traveling, you’d stay away from Mass? (No one has to LIKE guitars and many mission parishes can’t afford incense.)Well if I want to go to church on Sundays and pray at the Saturday Vespers yes. And go to a church that is traditional and believes in what I believe to be a great liturgical life yes. I’m not going to sit through a Mass, that shows no reverence and thinks guitar music is so great. As well as no incense, not many candles, people wanting to run up to the altar to do the job of a priest. Yes I will bail for what I think is right.
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LaLucia
Guest
Cid, I think that Fr. Amorth is doing the right thing on just spending 20min. at a time for the exorcisms.
But I know for a fact that some other exorcists priests have taken hours to perform an exorcism.
I do believe that Fr. Amorth has learned from experience that it is better to take a little bit at a time because sometimes the demons do return even after hours of doing the exorcism.
That man that killed his wife trying to do an exorcism… we still don’t know his whole story. I can’t tell yet what really happened.
Most likely some writer will be able to tell the true story of what really happened. Then… after all the facts are in we can decide for ourselves if the man was really telling the truth.
It is so easy for a demon to possess sp a person and tell that person to kill someone. But usually it happens to people who have been exposing themselves to demons for months. A house that has demons can take a toll on the people who live there.
Some people choose to stay and fight the demons… while others just move away from the haunted house.
But I know for a fact that some other exorcists priests have taken hours to perform an exorcism.
I do believe that Fr. Amorth has learned from experience that it is better to take a little bit at a time because sometimes the demons do return even after hours of doing the exorcism.
That man that killed his wife trying to do an exorcism… we still don’t know his whole story. I can’t tell yet what really happened.
Most likely some writer will be able to tell the true story of what really happened. Then… after all the facts are in we can decide for ourselves if the man was really telling the truth.
It is so easy for a demon to possess sp a person and tell that person to kill someone. But usually it happens to people who have been exposing themselves to demons for months. A house that has demons can take a toll on the people who live there.
Some people choose to stay and fight the demons… while others just move away from the haunted house.
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bkovacs
Guest
No. I would probably then look for a local Greek or Russian Orthodox Church. If I couldn’t find any of those than yes I would probably not be able to go to Mass.
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bkovacs
Guest
There are also many Orthodox mission parishes. And they make sure that they have incense present. Even if it donated to them.
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bkovacs
Guest
Anyway back to the main topic of this post. It is inadvisable!. Demons are more cunning than most people are. You need to ask God to send his holy angels for protection. For they are even more cunning than demons. I believe a holy angel could also posses a person to do battle against a person who is possessed by a demon. But only God can allow that. And it has to be someone that God sees fit.
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FrRJBoyd
Guest
It is truly appalling that you received laughter as your response to requesting the EF in your area. I know I received the response that the TLM is the “Mass of lunatics and schismatics” from one of my brother priests. But how can we have Tradition without the Pope; or Christ without the Church He established? Please don’t allow the bad example of some priests to drive you into schism. How far are you from Norristown? Or from Mater Ecclesia in Berlin, NJ?
Even if every priest in your area were setting a bad example, that could never be an excuse for committing the sin of schism. Look at St. John Fisher. He was alone among all his brother bishops in Tudor England in that he did not have a mistress. He did not give up, and that is why we call him a saint today! Or look at St. Francis of Assisi, who kissed the hands of an adulterous priest, because he was still able to receive the Eucharist and absolution from his hands.
While it is true that many priests do not believe in evil spirits or even angels in general today, it is not true that the Church no longer believes in them. The Pope obviously believes in them; the many priests who perform exorcisms believe in them. I believe in them. Don’t let the bad examples you have encountered discourage you.
An exorcism may only be performed by a bishop or by a priest duly delegated by the bishop. The introduction to the ritual states that the priest should be of mature years, known for his holiness of life, and have some experience with exorcisms (some training, including witnessing the rite being performed). Usually there is only one exorcist per diocese, so most priests cannot perform this ritual. Proof, such as speaking in foreign languages one has not studied, having knowledge of hidden events, levitation (all done apart from God’s power), and/or inhuman strength must be exhibited by the person to be exorcised before a major exorcism is authorized. Before the ritual begins, the priest is exhorted to fast, pray, go to confession, and offer Mass. Demons can, indeed, know people’s sins, not because they can read souls, but because there are so many of them in the world that, basically, they probably witness nearly all of our actions. They also lie, so the priest is exhorted not to pay any attention to what the demon or demons may say, but only to ask them two questions: how many of them are in the person, and what are their names. I read an interview with Rome’s chief exorcist a couple of years ago, and it is interesting to note that most exorcists do not use the 1999 rite, but prefer the traditional one according to the 1962 rubrics.
God bless,
Fr. Boyd
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FrRJBoyd
Guest
No; there is really no need for this. Holy angels have no desire to possess people, nor would they have permission from God. Satan and his minions like to possess people because they are great counterfeiters. While the Holy Spirit dwells within us and gives uw greater freedom, the demons are jealous of this, and so they would like to be worshiped, too, and want to indwell in a person. The result is the horror of demonic possession.
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CathFaith1
Guest
It seems actual diabolical possession is quite rare, so that may offer some anecdotal evidence it’s difficult for a demon to possess a person. One would think especially difficult for one who is baptised - and the added Renewal of Baptismal Promises.
The demon didn’t need to possess Adam and Eve for the first violation against God. So it seems temptation and obsession are the *‘easiest’*routes?
Exorcists say real Satanic possession is rare - What are Possession and Obsession by the Devil?
Adam
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FrRJBoyd
Guest
Exactly. Many of the saints believe that satan lost a lot of his power over man after our Lord’s passion and death, so that, while it seems in Biblical times possession was not that unusual, today it is. There is actually a minor exorcism of a person at baptism, and usually, in order for someone to become possessed after baptism, it is due to their own sins opening a door. Things like playing with ouija boards, tarot cards, psychic readings or necromancy, other forms of divination, casting of spells and witchcraft, devil worship, etc., can open the door to demonic possession. So stay away from these things!
Places can be infested with demons as well, especially if they were sites of demon worship or witchcraft, and they can be exorcised as well.
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
Somewhere I read that about 60% of our sins are due the the flesh - our inherent weakness - 30% to the world - outside temptations - anjd 10 % to the devil - diabolic temptations. Most of the time the demons can just sit quietly and let people come to them.
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holdencaulfield
Guest
He does have a point that the Church has gotten too unorthodox. I will pray that Pope Benedict XVI will restore things to how they should be. Or maybe better yet we go back to the way things were at the Council of Trent.
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bkovacs
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Norristown about 45 miles one way, and Mater Ecclesia in Berlin, NJ about 2 1/2 hours one way. Thanks for your kind words.
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FrRJBoyd
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45 min. seems to be standard; I usually drive over an hour one way each week to say the TLM either in Poughkeepsie, NY or New Haven, CT. Most of the people who attend travel for similar amounts of time. I believe it will eventually get better, but we need people who have the faith and an appreciation for reverence --like you-- to hang in there! Please be assured of my prayers.
God bless,
Fr. Boyd
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