Plea to Catholics of a Liberal Persuasion

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While some of the agenda of the Liberal movement may seem to coincide with our Catholic teachings, the ultimate goal is a secular world ruled by government. I plead with all Catholics to learn from the latest attempt to undermine our religious freedoms in the HHS bill that the secular agenda will keep creating battles which will eventually erode the foundations of our fatih. Enclosed is an article which includes such a warning from the Pope.

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=44578
 
Unfortunately, I don’t expect you will find many, if any, of your intended audience here. :o
 
Unfortunately, I don’t expect you will find many, if any, of your intended audience here. :o
Oh, I disagree totally. There are alot of them, the “intended audience”, here. Will it persuade them? Don’t know. Keep praying.
 
Ten years ago would you have thought that gay marriage would ever be so legitimized by society or the government? Today, the courts of Minnesota is challenging the sanctity of the confessional. What next? They nibble away at the Christian based norms on which our country and society is based upon. Little by little we see basic norms and beliefs brought up in a challenge as to the fairness of a minority of the population. they may loose the initial battle but now the issue is brought up as challengable. Over time plp choose sides based on what information we are presented by a secular news with agendas. Eventurally people become accepting of society changes over time eroding time honored norms of soicety .
 
what are the demographics of this board anyway? any poll threads on that?
 
Cardinal George’s letter in our last weekend bulletin put it even more convincingly. This isn’t an isolated event. The government is intruding further and further into religious liberties of Americans.

Please use your votes to STOP the erosion of our liberty and conscience rights.
 
It just hurts to know that liberals are so bent on destroying the Catholic Church. I mean, I lean liberal on politics (lean slightly, much more moderate), but when the true liberals (i.e socially liberal modern day liberals) show how much they don’t like the Church and western civilization, it’s just so maddening.:mad:
 
Me too. I have to politically choose between people who want to murder babies or treat desperately poor Mexicans like animals.

For now, I have to vote against the murderers. But I want better options.
 
It just hurts to know that liberals are so bent on destroying the Catholic Church. I mean, I lean liberal on politics (lean slightly, much more moderate), but when the true liberals (i.e socially liberal modern day liberals) show how much they don’t like the Church and western civilization, it’s just so maddening.:mad:
I was once regarded as a liberal. I haven’t changed my thinking to speak of, but the whole notion of liberalism has changed.

Back when I was a Democrat officeholder, I was a “true believer” in the “liberalism” of the time, and not without some justification. My particular focus was on the truly poor, particularly those who could not help themselves; the disabled needy. Long ago, the Dem party really did stand for that. That, of course, was back when things could be done at the “grass roots” and not everything came out of Washington in broad policy moves.

But, not since Ronald Reagan’s Earned Income Credit has either party done anything for the truly poor. Both parties, but the Dem party more than the Repub party, has spent a lot of money on middle class and uber-upper class welfare. But what did the disabled needy get? Nothing.

So here we are in a system in which Warren Buffet and his like can get Social Security and Medicare, when a disabled person with nothing has to get by on $600/month. This administration has increased the Medicaid recipients and emphasized the 'well care" mostly utilized by the middle and upper classes, which crowds out the most needy Medicaid recipients and makes it increasingly difficult to get care for the chronically ill, most especially the disabled.

This government has loaned $2 billion to a Brazilian oil company in which George Soros has a major stake. Nancy Pelosi’s nephew gets a multimillion loan guarantee and worthless Solyndra gets tax credits and government loan guarantees.

None of that squares with the “liberalism” of my earlier days. What “liberalism” stands for now is abortion, homosexual marriage, middle class welfare and “pay to play”. Nothing else.
 
Me too. I have to politically choose between people who treat desperately poor Mexicans like animals.
I would dispute that. Establish who you think is treating them as such, and what the details of that claim are.
 
Progressivism has nothing to do with Liberalism in the literal or classical sense. You’ll find a larger base for that among the Libertarians and the Conservatives than the Progressives. Progressives are Statists, first and foremost. Progressives are Libertines, not Liberals, and their “Progress” is a jackboot forced-march right off a cliff.
  • Marty Lund
 
Me too. I have to politically choose between people who want to murder babies or treat desperately poor Mexicans like animals.

For now, I have to vote against the murderers. But I want better options.
You need to study Catholism more. Much more.
 
While some of the agenda of the Liberal movement may seem to coincide with our Catholic teachings, the ultimate goal is a secular world ruled by government. I plead with all Catholics to learn from the latest attempt to undermine our religious freedoms in the HHS bill that the secular agenda will keep creating battles which will eventually erode the foundations of our fatih. Enclosed is an article which includes such a warning from the Pope.

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=44578
I have not read the entire bill, but I don’t see how my religious freedom would be impacted. And I don’t see how the agenda of a minority, or even a majority of voters can erode the foundations of my faith. If these concerns were real the foundations of faith would have been washed away long, long ago. Look at Poland’s history in the twentieth century. At midcentury it was ruled by a secular, communist, government of immense power, yet the foundations of the faith remained rock solid; Look at Russia, in spite of Lenin, Stalin and others, the Russian Orthodox Church is back in strength. Foundations of faith are not obliterated by the stroke of a legislative pen. Nothing I have read about the HHS bill requires any Catholic to use contraception, or do anything else that violates his or her beliefs.
 
It just hurts to know that liberals are so bent on destroying the Catholic Church. I mean, I lean liberal on politics (lean slightly, much more moderate), but when the true liberals (i.e socially liberal modern day liberals) show how much they don’t like the Church and western civilization, it’s just so maddening.:mad:
No, many of them profess they LOVE their Church…they just want it to change. 😉
 
Define “Catholics”.
Yes, we must do so for the sake of the argument which will go something like this: Someone will say a person baptized Catholic remains a Catholic even if they dissent from all that the Church stands for and have no sacramental participation. (true) Then someone will chime in and say, “Oh, that person is only C-I-N-O.” But this is important because one cannot be un-baptized.

Now why would it be so important for lapsed Catholics to identify with the word “Catholic?” (and there are a lot of them, no doubt.) I know if I did not believe in the tenets of a religion, I’d be out of there in a flash, and engage myself with others of a like-minded persuasion, shaking the dust from my feet as I go. But these “Catholics” who have lost their faith and refuse to submit to any ecclesiastical authority (after all, they are ruled by their conscience and their own brand of truth under the dogma of moral relativism,) remain for a different reason. Their ministry is to sound the message to other weak Catholics that the Church is wrong in all that she teaches and oppressive to women. They hope that their “Catholic” numbers will be large enough to lend credibility to their cause and make the Church capitulate by changing the fundamental truth entrusted to her by God. Their mission is to effect change from within the institution and bring down the patriarchal hierarchy, among other things.

You see, the Catholic Church is the biggest hurdle the liberals have in instituting their radical secularism by placing the State above God. So to the author of this thread, I’m afraid your plea will go unheard.
 
For those who claim that one party treats ‘desperate immigrants like animals:’

Does this mean you support:

Flouting this country’s immigration laws (the most just and lenient in the world)?

Making a mockery of every immigrant who came here the legal way?

Denying those ‘starving masses’ the opportunity to receive the correct medical checks they would get if they came here legally?

Therefore allowing disease to run rampant among them?

The illegal industry that herds people across the border like cattle, with many of them dying in the process?

Allowing criminals and gang members to sneak in?

Encouraging the black market sales of phony IDs?

Overburdening our already-broken medical and immigration system?

The fallacy that need trumps law?

I want to understand what you are calling for.
 
I have not read the entire bill, but I don’t see how my religious freedom would be impacted. And I don’t see how the agenda of a minority, or even a majority of voters can erode the foundations of my faith. If these concerns were real the foundations of faith would have been washed away long, long ago. Look at Poland’s history in the twentieth century. At midcentury it was ruled by a secular, communist, government of immense power, yet the foundations of the faith remained rock solid; Look at Russia, in spite of Lenin, Stalin and others, the Russian Orthodox Church is back in strength. Foundations of faith are not obliterated by the stroke of a legislative pen. Nothing I have read about the HHS bill requires any Catholic to use contraception, or do anything else that violates his or her beliefs.
The HHS mandate would force Catholic employers and Catholic insurors to violate their conscience by providing coverage which they find morally objectionable. Employers who self insure do not get an exemption from providing morally objectionable coverage. Small business owners who object to covering contraception, sterilization, and abortion inducing drugs will be forced to violate their conscience by providing such coverage.

The First Amendment protects the free exercise of religion. The HHS should not impose its religious beliefs on everyone else.

Contraception, sterilization, abortion inducing drugs–those are elective matters. They should not be mandated coverage for everyone including those who have religious objections to them. If people want those things, there are plenty of places to obtain them. Just don’t force employers and insurors and businesses to act in violation of their religion. That’s not only governmental overreach. It violates the First Amendment.

If nothing else, the government has no right to force anyone to violate their conscience.
 
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