Please, Catholics, tell me you disagree with the Pope on this!

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Melchior

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VATICAN CITY, NOV. 30, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith, says Benedict XVI.
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On a rainy morning in Rome, the Holy Father …addressed …more than 23,000 people gathered in St. Peter’s Square, (saying):
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(A)mong the inhabitants of Babylon there are people who are committed to peace and the good of the community, despite the fact that they do not share the biblical faith, that they do not know the hope of the Eternal City to which we aspire… They have a spark of desire for the unknown, for the greatest, for the transcendent, for a genuine redemption… (A)mong the nonbelievers, there are people with this spark, with a kind of faith, of hope, in the measure that is possible for them in the circumstances in which they live… With this faith in an unknown reality, they are really on the way to the authentic Jerusalem, to Christ… God will not allow them to perish with Babylon, having predestined them to be citizens of Jerusalem, on the condition, however, that, living in Babylon, they do not seek pride, outdated pomp and arrogance.
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It seems as if the invincible ignorance thing keeps getting broader and broader. I mean how is this not simply salvation by works alone? Statements like these make me wonder when universalism will start to be okay in Rome.

I find this greatly troubling. I thought Benedict would balance out some of these JPII ideas. Whatever happened to faith in and following Christ as the only way (or normal means) of Salvation, except for the possibility of certain exceptions known only to God?

When did the possible exception become the rule?

Mel
 
I don’t see anything new in this statement.

It might be a good idea to point out the difference between vincible and invincible ignoranc, though! A person couldn’t deliberately remain ignorant in order to have a lower standard applied to them; God can’t be decieved.
 
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Superstar905:
mel, I don’t quite see it either, care to be specific?
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He is saying all that is required for salvation is a commitment to peace and the good of the community. How is that even Christian? Thank God it is only and opinion and not ex cathedra. But it’s the pope for crying out loud!

Mel
 
In First Corinthians 12:5-6 St.Paul says he cannot judge “those without”(Non Christians) because, for them, “God will judge”. How does the Pope’s statement square with that?
Edgar Davie
 
John 14:6 - “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
Seems clear to me. :o
 
The Pope is speaking about folks who have never heard the good news…never read the Gospel…through no fault of their own
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BenedictXVI:
that **they do not know ** the hope of the Eternal City to which we aspire… They have a spark of desire for the unknown,
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This is not anything new…
 
Edgar Davie:
In First Corinthians 12:5-6 St.Paul says he cannot judge “those without”(Non Christians) because, for them, “God will judge”. How does the Pope’s statement square with that?
Edgar Davie
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*1 Corinthians12:5-6

and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.*

:confused:

Mel
 
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Lillith:
The Pope is speaking about folks who have never heard the good news…never read the Gospel…through no fault of their own

This is not anything new…
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This is new:
Whoever **seeks peace and the good of the community ** with a pure conscience
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Where was that ever taught in scripture or Tradition?

Mel
 
This is for people who have never heard the gospel, and do not know the lord, there is nothing new about this. I think you are misreading this.

God Bless.
 
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smelton:
John 14:6 - “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
Seems clear to me. :o
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This is often quoted as meaning one must believe in Jesus to get to heaven. But it doesn’t say that.
 
Acts 4:8-12

*8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers and elders of the people,

9 if we are on trial today for a benefit done to a sick man, as to how this man has been made well,

10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by this name this man stands here before you in good health.

11 “He is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which became the chief corner stone.

12 “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.*” 😦
 
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Lillith:
The Pope is speaking about folks who have never heard the good news…never read the Gospel…through no fault of their own

This is not anything new…
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I would agree that Paul discusses this issue in Romans. At the same time, we live in a different world than Paul. With today’s technology I would think a bunch of people have more access to the Gospel (Good News) than did back then. I’m not saying everyone has heard of Jesus today but for the Pope to come out and make that claim is a little far reaching for me, of course I’m protestant so that could be the reason.
 
John 14:6 - “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

it is clear… Jesus is our salvation… how He decides to offer that
salvation, is entirely up to Him… He is eternally merciful…

ignorance isn’t necessarily rejection…

i’d hope my Church, offers hope to any who have not deliberately
shut themselves off by rejecting Jesus…

Merry Christmas …

🙂
 
I don’t see anything new here. Those who haven’t heard the Gospel, but yet desire the good of their neighbors and seek peace are, in fact, responding to the spark (grace) of God that is in all men. I don’t see why your undies are in a bunch.
 
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Superstar905:
This is for people who have never heard the gospel, and do not know the lord, there is nothing new about this. I think you are misreading this.

God Bless.
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Yeah but if it is hard for those who believe the Gospel to be saved why does it seem to be easy for those who haven’t? Who without the teachings of scripture, could ever truly live up to that standard anyway? Who has a pure heart? It seems so misleading to give hope to unbelievers and it sends a message to every Buddhist and Muslim that they are okay if they are really really good people. This is not the Gospel message!

Mel
 
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Melchior:
Yeah but if it is hard for those who believe the Gospel to be saved why does it seem to be easy for those who haven’t. Who without the teachings of scripture, could ever truly live up to that standard anyway? Who has a pure heart? It seems so misleading to give hope to unbelievers and it sends a message to every Buddhist and Muslim that they are okay if they are really really good people. This is not the Gospel message!

Mel
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I don’t see that message being sent. I really don’t think you’re thinking this one through. The desire on your part to think the worst is not charitable.
 
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smelton:
John 14:6 - “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
Seems clear to me. :o
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It is clear for sure. What isn’t said is: No one comes to the Father except he that recognize me as Lord and Savior by the English derivative of my name only.

If it’s by Grace alone, why not leave that Grace to God alone.
 
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Mijoy2:
This is often quoted as meaning one must believe in Jesus to get to heaven. But it doesn’t say that.
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How else would one enter Heaven? How can the fallen created being enter the heaven of a Holy God unless he is covered by the Grace of God? How is that grace dispensed to the fallen? I think if you truely look at scripture the logical conclussion is that Jesus is the only way. Jesus is the one that said it. What does it mean if it doesn’t mean Jesus is the path to God?
 
My dear friends, let us love each other, since love is from God and everyone who loves is a child of God and knows God. Whoever fails to love does not know God, because God is love.

1 John 4:7-8

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

The pope, to me, sounds consistent with the Gospel and with the teachings of the Catholic Church.
 
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