Please Don't Support My Troop

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abcdefg:
The title says it all. liberals don’t support troops. remember discussions some time ago when some liberals(can’t remember exact names) said they support troops?
Keep in mind that the writer is a veteran of Viet Nam and other theatres of war. His father was KIA in Korea. His son is on leave from Iraq. Maybe he is liberal, maybe he is not. One cannot tell simply by his position on Iraq. However, he and his family have a long military background.
 
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abcdefg:
The title says it all. liberals don’t support troops. remember discussions some time ago when some liberals(can’t remember exact names) said they support troops?
To paraphrase Lenin, leftists support the troops like the rope supports the hanged man.
 
vern humphrey:
To paraphrase Lenin, leftists support the troops like the rope supports the hanged man.
As I explained earlier, libertarians (such as found at LewRockwell.com), are not leftist nor liberal in the sense commonly used nowadays. The are more choices then simply left - right, liberal - conservative.

Be that as it may, I find the simile particularly ironic in light of who wants the troops brought home and who wants to continue to keep them in harms way.
 
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ChrisR246:
As I explained earlier, libertarians (such as found at LewRockwell.com), are not leftist nor liberal in the sense commonly used nowadays. The are more choices then simply left - right, liberal - conservative.

Be that as it may, I find the simile particularly ironic in light of who wants the troops brought home and who wants to continue to keep them in harms way.
The issue is not who wants to continue to keep them in harms way, but who wants to increase the risks they face and prolong the war.

We lost 58,000 soldiers of my generation in Viet Nam because self-serving people back in the states encouraged the enemy to hang on and wait for a political victory in the streets of America.

You may have noted that al Qaeda’s second-in-command Ayman al-Zawahiri just published a letter in which he says al Qaida is hurting badly, but he goes on to say:
However, despite all of this, I say to you that we are in a battle, and that more than half of this battle is taking place in the battlefield of the media.
 
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ChrisR246:
I find the simile particularly ironic in light of who wants the troops brought home and who wants to continue to keep them in harms way.
In what way do you find the simile ironic? What do your comments have to do with the job for which the troops exercise their free will to undertake? Does ‘wanting the troops brought home’ trump the choice of the troops to complete their job away from home? Who exactly wants to keep the troops in harm’s way?

Clarity would be good.
 
vern humphrey:
We lost 58,000 soldiers of my generation in Viet Nam because self-serving people back in the states encouraged the enemy to hang on and wait for a political victory in the streets of America.
And the US is not going to make that same mistake again! Why? Because Nam taught you at what cost your enemies can be allowed to wage war on the streets of America.
 
Ani Ibi:
And the US is not going to make that same mistake again! Why? Because Nam taught you at what cost your enemies can be allowed to wage war on the streets of America.
Amen.

To those on the anti-war side, I recommend you read al-Zawahiri’s letter carefully and ask yourself this, “If the enemy is pinning his hopes on me, can I possibly be in the right?”
 
Ani Ibi:
And the US is not going to make that same mistake again! Why? Because Nam taught you at what cost your enemies can be allowed to wage war on the streets of America.
I don’t recall seeing any NVA or Viet Cong waging war in the streets of America.
 
Elaine's Cross:
I don’t recall seeing any NVA or Viet Cong waging war in the streets of America.
Nor did they. It was all done for them, by the anti-war movement.

And it cost us 58,000 American lives. Plus another 3,000,000 in Southeast Asia when they finally took over.
 
vern humphrey:
Nor did they. It was all done for them, by the anti-war movement.

And it cost us 58,000 American lives. Plus another 3,000,000 in Southeast Asia when they finally took over.
What business did we have there in the first place? It would have been nice if Germans & Japanese had demonstrated against their government during WWII.
 
Elaine's Cross:
What business did we have there in the first place?
Relevance?
Elaine's Cross:
It would have been nice if Germans & Japanese had demonstrated against their government during WWII.
How can you know that they did not demonstrate and were ‘silenced’?

Are you suggesting that American democracy and the WOT are equatable to German fascism or Japanese bushido?
 
vern humphrey:
Nor did they. It was all done for them, by the anti-war movement.

And it cost us 58,000 American lives. Plus another 3,000,000 in Southeast Asia when they finally took over.
Where are the peace protestors during these genocides? Am I to assume that legitimate self-defence is not OK but genocide is OK?
 
Ani Ibi:
How can you know that they did not demonstrate and were ‘silenced’?

Are you suggesting that American democracy and the WOT are equatable to German fascism or Japanese bushido?
There were those that did and were “silenced”. However, if more had demonstrated to the magnitude of the Viet Nam demonstrations, maybe history would have been different.

I am suggesting that there is a difference between the WOT and our invasion of Iraq.
 
Ani Ibi:
Am I to assume that legitimate self-defence is not OK but genocide is OK?
Oh, get real, please.

Is it our job to militarily stop genocide the world over? If so, why don’t we take on the big boys or help those without oil or other vital resources? I see a lot of duplicity in our government’s pick-and-choose attitude about this, regardless whether it is the Dems or the 'publicans in power.
 
Elaine's Cross:
Oh, get real, please.

Is it our job to militarily stop genocide the world over? If so, why don’t we take on the big boys?
Wait! You’re missing the point. First of all, Iraq was not a case of intervening in genocide. The mass killings were not current; they’d happened years and decades prior. Genocide is worthy of any nation getting involved to stop it, but genocide after the fact is just a political tool used by our government.

Second of all, the point is that if a leader wants to go throughout the world helping oppressed people they need to tell the American people up front what they want to do and how much it will cost. A lot of people, including me, would say let’s do it. You can use the US military for whatever you want but the people who are governed just need to be dealt with honestly. The problem is that we have a government that has lied and deceived its own people for war and that’s okay with some and totally not okay with others.
 
Ani Ibi:
How can you know that they did not demonstrate and were ‘silenced’?
Some Germans did protest – and went to concentration camps.
Ani Ibi:
Are you suggesting that American democracy and the WOT are equatable to German fascism or Japanese bushido?
In the end, that’s what it comes down to – people ignore the horrors committed by terrorists and brutal dictators and attack the United States.
 
Elaine's Cross:
Oh, get real, please.
To which I reply: oh, remember your courtesy, please. When people forget their manners, they have conceded the point being discussed, in this case that a double standard is being imposed between war and genocide.

Catholic teaching does not endorse genocide and while Catholic teaching does not endorse war, it does allow that some wars may be just. What genocide do you propose may be viewed as just? By anyone who purports to support peace? By the Church?

Perhaps we are having a problem with specificity. Perhaps the term ‘peace’ really means ‘peace at any cost’ for those who would stop war but not genocide.
Elaine's Cross:
Is it our job to militarily stop genocide the world over?
Is there a credible distinction between stopping war and stopping genocide?
Elaine's Cross:
If so, why don’t we take on the big boys
Elaine, who are ‘the big boys’?
Elaine's Cross:
or help those without oil or other vital resources?
Are you suggesting that ‘we’ are not helping those without oil or other vital resources? Or are you laying the foundation for airbrushing Hugo Chavez’s ‘charitable’ intentions toward the governance of the Americas?
Elaine's Cross:
I see a lot of duplicity in our government’s pick-and-choose attitude about this, regardless whether it is the Dems or the 'publicans in power.
Duplicity? Along the lines of being not ok with war but ok with genocide? Before changing the subject, please make a credible distinction between stopping war and stopping genocide.
 
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Thekla:
Wait! You’re missing the point. First of all, Iraq was not a case of intervening in genocide. The mass killings were not current; they’d happened years and decades prior. Genocide is worthy of any nation getting involved to stop it, but genocide after the fact is just a political tool used by our government.
Murder and rape were happening all the time. Mass killings were episodic, orgies of blood every now and then.
Prosecutor: “Your honor, this man is charged with being a serial killer.”

Judge: “Has he killed anyone** today**?”

Prosecutor: “Well . . . no. Not today.”

Judge: “Case dismissed.”
 
vern humphrey:
In the end, that’s what it comes down to – people ignore the horrors committed by terrorists and brutal dictators and attack the United States.
Because they buy into:

a) the seductive – but doomed – error that might (alone) is right and

b) the consequent truth that freedom does not reside in might (alone) and

c) that they themselves will always be included within the ranks of the might-alone club, no matter how wrong, unfree, and irrational might-alone is ultimately shown to be.
 
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