please explain this superstition

[cyprian]

serendipity:

I am sure that your intentions are good, but I find messages like these insulting; that I feel hopelees because I could be praying more or differently. I have been attending daily mass for years. I have been saying daily rosaries too, in addition to other regular prayers and devotions.

Adoration is not available here, but I don’t think it would make that much more of a difference. And, as I said, I have been begging God to help me know what I am meant to be doing for him, as well as applying to hundreds of jobs over the last few years.

I don’t think my debt to Jesus is any greater than any one else’s. Yes, like every one I am a sinner, but at the risk of sounding like the Pharisee here, I have never done anything to harm any one, and find it difficult to swallow the notion that all this pain is necessary for some sort of purification process or to be stronger. The Bible also say to whom much is given, much is expceted of in return, and as I have not been given that much, (or so it seems anything, not even reliable health), it is very difficult to be told again and again “that for everything there is a reason” and “there is some greater good of this.”

Don’t lose hope. I certainly love you because I as well as everyone else struggles daily with it all. Maybe find a good priest to talk to. I love you and will pray for you. For now you can offer up all this suffering for the conversion of sinners, that is doing something. Employed at least in God’s redemptive work.

Peace and Love

 

[jeffreedy789]

yes, a positive attitude definitely makes things change in your life.

it’s easy to see, when you look for it.

a couple ‘for instances’:

one - the other day, i was working (at a bookstore) and an african american lady came in, frowning, scowling, glaring at everyone. DARING anyone to speak to her. she moped around for awhile, giving angry glances to anyone who was unfortunate enough to look her way. she seemed very disturbed and unhappy, almost like she was looking for a fight. most everyone gave her a wide path.

well, when she came to the register to check out, i said ‘hello, ma’am. how are you today?’ and she practically shouted ‘THANK YOU!!! you’re the FIRST person to say ANYTHING to me since i came IN this store!!!’ implying, i think, that no one spoke to her because she was black.

i apologized for my staff not speaking to her - but i honestly couldn’t blame them. she was one of the angriest people i’ve ever met.

do you see what i’m saying? her attitude - her outlook - CREATED the very negativity in her life that she accused it of.

number 2 - i had a young man who worked for me - we’ll call him dave.

dave was upbeat, happy, fun, and obviously loved life and everyone and everything in it. he was quick to smile, quick to laugh, slow to get angry, and made everyone he spoke to feel like they were the most important person in the world to him.

about once a week, someone would offer him a job (fortunately he liked working for me too much, and never left). people would stop and talk to him about their problems, would make a point to come by and see how he was, would ask for him when they came in the store. his presence lit up the room, and made everyone feel special and appreciated. you always felt welcome when dave was around.

see? his very outlook - his attitude - created the thing he expected.

if these two people, the angry woman and dave, went to a job interview, which of them would be hired? dave, 10 times out of 10. he EXPECTED it, and that’s what he got, because his expectations became part of the way he treated people - the way he came across.

that’s how the ‘superstition’ works. it’s not a mantra, or a means of placating some immature deity that will give you what you want if you believe it hard enough. it’s a matter of learning to become the person that you want to be - and seeing how people respond to that.

now - that said - it’s easier for some people to do this than others. i myself am not dave. i’m quiet. i tend toward depression. i get down sometimes. i see the world as a dark place sometimes.

what i’ve found, though, third_servant, is that when i’m FORCED to be positive to people (like when i have to work the register at work, and i MAKE myself be cheery and positive despite my feelings), i start FEELING that way, too. at first it’s totally a show - i’m just faking it. but as cs lewis says, if you fake loving people (and yourself, incidentally) long enough, you’ll start to REALLY love them (and you) after a time.

may God bless you guys as you seek His joy in your lives.

 

[third_servant]

cyprian:

God allows suffering to bring about a greater good, as Jesus willingly entered into suffering to overcome sin.

Right. Read that again: he WILLINGLY entered into suffering. My suffering was imposed on me without my permission. So how is my suffering a good thing?

My suffering is meaningless.

So anyway, what about this superstition?

 

[third_servant]

jeffreedy789:

one - the other day, i was working (at a bookstore) and an african american lady came in, frowning, scowling, glaring at everyone. DARING anyone to speak to her.

do you see what i’m saying? her attitude - her outlook - CREATED the very negativity in her life that she accused it of.

No, her ACTIONS (those negative actions) made her life the way it was. Her attitude was something else. Her attitude was that she was misunderstood. Not a good example.

If she had a ‘positive attitude’ but acted mean the same way as above, nothing would change.

I don’t do such actions toward people. I keep my emotions very reserved - the only place I can vent my emotions is on the internet. I don’t do like that woman does.

dave was upbeat, happy, fun, and obviously loved life and everyone and everything in it. he was quick to smile, quick to laugh, slow to get angry, and made everyone he spoke to feel like they were the most important person in the world to him.

see? his very outlook - his attitude - created the thing he expected.

Again, his actions, not his attitude. If he had a “positive attitude” but didn’t act nice toward others, nothing good would happen to him. The actions matter.

if these two people, the angry woman and dave, went to a job interview, which of them would be hired? dave, 10 times out of 10. he EXPECTED it,

If he expected it without doing anything, he’d get nothing. The superstition doesn’t work. That’s my point.

and that’s what he got, because his expectations became part of the way he treated people - the way he came across.

His actions are what mattered.

it’s a matter of learning to become the person that you want to be - and seeing how people respond to that.

It is not the attitude, but doing good things for others. The superstition fails.

but as cs lewis says, if you fake loving people (and yourself, incidentally) long enough, you’ll start to REALLY love them (and you) after a time…

Then those politicians on TV really do love me (yeah right! I don’t believe that for a second )

 

[Catholic_Mike]

“if you think positive, things will get better”

Frankly, this looks like some kind of superstition, as if “positive thoughts” are some kind of talisman that wards away evil.

I don’t believe that a positive attitude WILL make things get better. But certainly different modes of thinking are more or less likely to allow a person to find a solution in many situations.

I don’t think a person should be so positive as to be irrational (that’s kind of annoying), but neither should they be so negative as to be irrational… such as the “I’m worthless” stuff in your profile.

Obviously people who keep trying are more likely to eventually overcome problems than those who give up.

In terms of the spiritual, I believe that by having hope, one avoids despair - and despair is a sin and a major problem. ( newadvent.org/cathen/04755a.htm )

I’ve known quite a few people who habitually sin and try to excuse themselves by saying “well, I’m going to screw up anyway, I’m just too weak.” If they thought less about their inevitable failure, and tried to focus on temporary success, they would sin less often and get better at resisting temptation.

 

[third_servant]

Catholic_Mike:

I don’t believe that a positive attitude WILL make things get better.

this is what I was thinking.

but neither should they be so negative as to be irrational… such as the “I’m worthless” stuff in your profile.

It is hard not to feel worthless after all the garbage I am going through.

Obviously people who keep trying are more likely to eventually overcome problems than those who give up.

Where to get this hope to keep going? God hasn’t provided it to me yet. Why is he delaying?

 

[SPOKENWORD]

third_servant:

this is what I was thinking.

It is hard not to feel worthless after all the garbage I am going through.

Where to get this hope to keep going? God hasn’t provided it to me yet. Why is he delaying?

Yes He has. You are the one delaying. The problem is that all you do is talk instead of taking action. Change has got to begin with you. Seek ye first the kingdom of heaven and all His rightiousness and All these things shall be added unto you. God Bless

 

[Exporter]

I can tell you from coaching Track and Field for 30+ years that the attitude does have an effect on the results! It’s NOT superstition!

If you THINK you can do something, you have a good chance of doing it.

If you DONT think you can do a thing, then you probably will not do it.

This IS NOT superstition, it is a FACT.

 

[third_servant]

SPOKENWORD:

Yes He has. You are the one delaying. The problem is that all you do is talk instead of taking action. Change has got to begin with you. Seek ye first the kingdom of heaven and all His rightiousness and All these things shall be added unto you. God Bless

how am I delaying? It is God that has waited 4 years and counting to help me. That looks like delaying to me!

What action am I supposed to take? How do I do what you’re talking about?

 

[third_servant]

Exporter:

I can tell you from coaching Track and Field for 30+ years that the attitude does have an effect on the results! It’s NOT superstition!

If you THINK you can do something, you have a good chance of doing it.

If you DONT think you can do a thing, then you probably will not do it.

This IS NOT superstition, it is a FACT.

What I’m going through is not about athletics.

OK, I’ll put what you say to the test.

I THINK I CAN MAKE A MILLION DOLLARS.

checks wallet

Nope. Didn’t work.

I THINK I CAN GET A JOB.

checks email box

Nope. Didn’t work.

It is a superstition.

 

[Ignatius]

“if you think positive, things will get better”

Frankly, this looks like some kind of superstition, as if “positive thoughts” are some kind of talisman that wards away evil.

In this life you’ve got to accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative and avoid focusing on the things which will discourage you.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

third_servant:

how am I delaying? It is God that has waited 4 years and counting to help me. That looks like delaying to me!

What action am I supposed to take? How do I do what you’re talking about?

Hi Third servant. Are you seeking the Face of God? You have to be honest with yourself. Are you putting God first in your life? Are you obeying what He tells you to do?. What action are you taking when God speaks to You? Or are you doing it your way? God Bless

 

[Augustine]

serendipity:

The Bible also say to whom much is given, much is expceted of in return, and as I have not been given that much, (or so it seems anything, not even reliable health), it is very difficult to be told again and again “that for everything there is a reason” and “there is some greater good of this.”

Perhaps Our Heavenly Father gives His ungrateful children the cold shoulder… Not out of some petty vengeance, but out of love, nudging you in His own way.

 

[Augustine]

third_servant:

This makes it sound like I gotta lean on my own strength instead of on God…

He does want you to use your strength serving Him, not the other way around.

 

[Augustine]

third_servant:

Right. Read that again: he WILLINGLY entered into suffering. My suffering was imposed on me without my permission. So how is my suffering a good thing?

Ask Him. He doesn’t really need your permission, as He is your Father and you are His child. He may use even suffering to teach you. We’re typically not good students, so suffering helps breaking our pride and bringing us humility to trust in God in all things.

 

[Augustine]

third_servant:

how am I delaying? It is God that has waited 4 years and counting to help me. That looks like delaying to me!

4 years out of a 80 years life span? That’s nothing! He’s got all the time in eternity, but you’ve got just your life span.

Read Job.

 

[Augustine]

third_servant:

What I’m going through is not about athletics.

OK, I’ll put what you say to the test.

I THINK I CAN MAKE A MILLION DOLLARS.

checks wallet

Nope. Didn’t work.

I THINK I CAN GET A JOB.

checks email box

Nope. Didn’t work.

It is a superstition.

You lazy person! So you want it the easy way, don’t you? I do too, but, as you said, it doesn’t work. After “making a wish”, what did you do towards that wish? You can’t take the first step without a wish, but not taking you is a sure way that the wish will be nothing more than that.

 

[Augustine]

third_servant:

How is an evil thing (pain,suffering) being done for good? It is like slapping a wife, there’s no good reason for it. And why would God do evil? I thought God only does good. I can’t believe that God would do evil. How does “thinking positive” make the evil that is imposed on me, go away?

You say it’s evil, but God is doing you good. A good parent will admonish or punish a child, as hurtful as it is, but it’s for the child’s good. Why do you think that your Heavenly Father would be less than an earthly parent? He’s got His own plain to save you, it’s not yours. So shut up and fall to your knees in thanking for God’s love.

Have you read St. Therese’s “Story of a Soul” lately? Rent “The Song of Bernadette”. And then medidate why God would give them so much suffering at the end of their lives.

 

[serendipity]

third_servant:

how am I delaying? It is God that has waited 4 years and counting to help me. That looks like delaying to me!

What action am I supposed to take? How do I do what you’re talking about?

I agree with you, in this sense. Hope is a virtue, and as such somewhat of a gift. My experience has been even with the best of our efforts, it can be elusive at times. People telling us not to lost hope is not sufficient to help. But still, we have to try, and we have to realize at the same time it is not always possible, it requires grace.

It is terrible not having a job. Very easy to feel worthless. we are commanded to do all we can to help each other, and then we are in a position where by no faulots of our own we can barely survive, let alone help any one else.

Persoanlly, I try my best not to think about why things happen. It doesn’t always work, but needs to be done ebcuase only God knows why things happen. Wewill never understand his will. Pondering why so many immoral people who deliberately offend God or deny his existance are able to have jobs and plan for the future and have families does not help us. I have applied to hundreds of jobs over the last two years. Have had so many people revise my resume, had so many cases where people told me the interview was great, only to find out that I was the second best, or the project’s funding was terminated, or that the things I were working on went overseas. Once in a while I get stuck in the “why me” trap, and it is difficult to crawl out of it. It would be so much easier if I at least had my own family, so I was not so alone through all of this.

Supposedly there are options every where, we just need to learn how to see them. I still believe that. I don’t know for how much longer I can. I am sure that every thing is meant to be a learning experience for one reason or another, and am trying to figure out what I should be learning. It’s not easy, and no it does not seem fair - but that is something else not to think about. The bet I can do is offer everything up and hope, as an earlier poster noted that the suffering might actually help the conversion of sinners or cut down my purgatory time, because this does feel like hell on earth. I am having severe problems making my student loan financial obligations, and don’t understand how it is that this is God’s plan that I am not able to meet my creditors (then agian I dont’ understand why God lets the rich have so much more access to anythign that brings stability in life).

saint Augustine said something to the effect that we shoudl rpay as if everything counted on God and then work as if everything depended on us. Keep praying for hope, faith, and trustin God, and wisdom to see what you shoudl be doing. pray to to be releived of the paralysing fear, anxiety, and despair that accompanies this situation. I am a big fan of Psalm 88. And for some reasons, prayers that invoke the precious blood of jesus have brought me peace or stilled my mind for times. Maybe search the web and put in a few prayer requests at monasteries and convents too. And keep trying.

 

[serendipity]

You say it’s evil, but God is doing you good. A good parent will admonish or punish a child, as hurtful as it is, but it’s for the child’s good. Why do you think that your Heavenly Father would be less than an earthly parent? He’s got His own plain to save you, it’s not yours. So shut up and fall to your knees in thanking for God’s love.

Have you read St. Therese’s “Story of a Soul” lately? Rent “The Song of Bernadette”. And then medidate why God would give them so much suffering at the end of their lives.

This sounds like condescending rubbish. thank God for lonelieness? Thank God for despair? Thank God for an inability to pay the bills, so you have to keep explaining ad nauseaum why your life is such a failure to so many creditors again and agian, begging them for their compasssion, even though they don’t belive you or care one iota for you. Thank God for insecurity, of not knwoing how long you will be any where?

That is not God’s love, this is the ibaility of peopel to help people out that leads to such suffering. God works through people, if they are open to him. If they are not open to Him, then people feel bereft of God’s love. This is not God punishing anyone, but a symptom of the injustice that is in our world because of greed, and selfishness of those with power, primarily.

Pray that God will move them with compassion, or that he will send you some one as he sent Simon to help Christ carry his corss. Don’t tell people all their suffering is God’s will, when you know nothing about them or their situation. Many people suffer because other people do not fulfill God’s will or listen to his sermon on the Mount; every one has free will. poor use of free wil leads to suffering for others.

Some one recommneded reading Theres’e Autobiography of a Soul to me earlier on, which I did. I felt bad that she had a physical disease which made her suffer, but her life was no help to me at all for inspiration. She had the support of her community. She had a loving and religious family, never wanted for anyhting, and lived a very sheltered life. Straight from the household into the convent.

She always knew what she wanted to do, and though some of it may have been hard, like joining the convent earlier than she allowed, she was able to do so. Not too mention, it didn’t take her too long to do that. She did not have to worry about starving or being homeless or being unable to help other people who needed it, like parents who lose their jobs. There may not have been a medical sure for her, but she was not deprived of medical help because of her situation.

She did experience peridos of spiritual dryness, whcih was slightly helpful to me, becuase f ehr with all her stability and security felt God was ot with her at times, then it made me feel better about wondering the same thing at times. But overall, I would not find the book inspiring if I was ot sure tht God loved me as a premise.

For inspirational purposes, I found Catherine fo Siena’s Dialogues much more helpful. I think she better illustrates how God is love, and how many problems exist because people do not distribute God’s love. She does too write about suffering as being something tht can be offered to God, and the idea that if things are going very poorly for you at this moment, then it might be because if things were going better, due to the way every thing is in the environment, and with your temperment and weeknesses, then your soul might be in more danger, because of decisison that you might make. Not always easy to believe either…but for me, was more helpful. Still, I think a lot of any problems are rooted to the people behave in general that are not rooted to God’s will; nepotisim, selfishness, greed, and that so little of the will of God is promoted by His people. Praying for conversion of souls, helps the world as much as it helps God.