Please help- marriage advice

[BlueEyedLady]

I am sorry I keep adding, but I have nowhere else to turn. i want to save my marriage and I want to be a good Catholic but I need help. I would follow any plan if I knew it would work, but I seem to be spinning my wheels. I need to make him feel loved and respected and valued but he feels the opposite.

If you tell your cancer survivor husband that you are cutting him off from sex because despite the promises that you guys made in front of all your friends and family, you no longer consider yourself “really” married to him, you are going to run the serious risk of him leaving you. If I were you, I would have a priest or theologian there when you explain this one, just so he understands that it’s actually a religious thing, and you aren’t just making up excuses.

Even then, he may not have the patience for this and may decide that he’s better off finding a wife who will mean and stand by her vows the first time. I would.

I’m not telling you what to do, but I do want you to be aware of the real world consequences that you’re risking. If you take out the Catholicism, then what you’re doing to him is a cruel joke, and he may not be willing to see things through a catholic lens.

 

[BlossomingFaith]

If you tell your cancer survivor husband that you are cutting him off from sex because despite the promises that you guys made in front of all your friends and family, you no longer consider yourself “really” married to him, you are going to run the serious risk of him leaving you. If I were you, I would have a priest or theologian there when you explain this one, just so he understands that it’s actually a religious thing, and you aren’t just making up excuses.

Even then, he may not have the patience for this and may decide that he’s better off finding a wife who will mean and stand by her vows the first time. I would.

I’m not telling you what to do, but I do want you to be aware of the real world consequences that you’re risking. If you take out the Catholicism, then what you’re doing to him is a cruel joke, and he may not be willing to see things through a catholic lens.

This is why I feel so devastated. I completely agree with your perspective. I consider myself married to him. We have been together almost 13 years. I cannot bear doing this to him everyday. I just dont know what to do. Does God really want me to put myself and my salvation first before my husband? I feel like It comes down to me or him and if I ruin his life to save my own soul, maybe I deserve Hell more than if I have sex with my husband. If he hurt himself, I don’t know how I could live with myself.
I go to work, I talk to people, but inside I feel like I am battling with the Devil. I dont know what to do.

 

[underacloud]

Are you receiving advice from a trusted priest regarding your courses of action?

You seem confused on a few issues. You need to seek clarification on them, rather than leaping to assumptions.

a) You don’t seem to know that dispensations from mass are possible. Why didn’t you discuss the situation with a priest before getting into such a pickle with your husband over this?

b) You aren’t currently having sex with your husband and don’t seem to intent to. In that case, you do not need a convalidation before going to confession. You would only need to wait for a convalidation to confess if marital relations were continuing.

c) Have you considered a radical sanation?

Your husband is understandably frustrated with the changes you are imposing on him. Don’t compound this with misunderstandings and outright errors regarding the faith. You need the advice of a good priest on these matters.

PS Yes, God and your own salvation come first. But it should not be an either or situation. A good priest can guide you through this difficult time.

 

[Alix1912]

Couple thoughts from the non-catholic in a mixed marriage……

You said your vows once, and presumably you meant them. In God’s eyes you are married, thus having sex with your husband is not going to land you a first class ticket to hell. The Catholic Church needs to you make it square with them. It was hugely hurtful to me to have my husband and his priest tell me that the day I had spent 8 months planning, and had gone through hoops to make beautiful, holy, and meaningful was meaningless in their eyes. The priest even had the audacity to tell me we could just resay our vows today in front of him and it would all be good. Seriously……words said spontaneously in my torn jeans and a t shirt are OK, but a day 8 months in planning, in a church, officiated by two pastors was not. Needless to say that meeting did not end well. I literally told him if he wanted to watch me say my vows he could watch the wedding video. I was STEAMING MAD. Hence radical sanation…….because hell was going to freeze over before I called a redo on my wedding day.

You husband probably feels the same way. To be told you wedding day, one of the most important days in your life was meaningless feels pretty horrible. Really horrible actually.

Also in the last several years we have rearranged family plans, disrupted holidays and bent over backwards to accommodate my husband’s need for mass each week. On holidays it’s really annoying to have to plan around my family’s Lutheran service that everyone goes to AND making sure he gets to mass. He ends up doing a lot of Christmas and Easter vigil masses which go on FOREVER and get done very late making him tired and cranky the next day. Super fun. Asking him after the deposit has been put down to rearrange a vacation for mass is kinda selfish. Asking a cruise ship alter their port schedule to accommodate your need for mass…….really?!?!?!?! Come on Even my uber follow the rules Catholic husband would not ask that.

Do not even get me started on NFP. Which is being resolved once and for all by me with a Tubal in about 4 weeks.

You have basically changed the entire game on your husband at a time when he was fighting a life-threatening illness, and you are upset with him!!! What you have done is unfair. It may be right in your eyes and following your conscience, but it is very unfair. I feel really bad for your husband.

You mentioned above that you were wondering if you were being selfish……then you mention you first put your own family and career before him and now are doing the same with the Catholic Church. You also say you love him and can’t live without him…….but you can’t seem to make him a priority in your life. If I was him I’d be questioning your love too. Add in denying him sex because you want to wait until your convalidation ……….can you blame him for thinking you don’t care.

Praying for your marriage is good. Praying for his conversion in the same breath is not. He may never convert, and continually hoping for it is just setting you up for future heart ache. Also is will put huge pressure on him, and will reinforce his questioning of your love for him. It has for me. I constantly live with the feeling that my husband would love me more if I was Catholic. From personal experience that feeling totally, and completely sucks.

You have to decide if your marriage is worth possibly having to make small compromises in your PRACTICE of your faith. If you cannot or will not occasionally be willing to work with your husband or compromise you will break your marriage. You need to make this call BEFORE getting a convalidation or radical sanation, because getting an annulment after that is REALLY hard. You also need to think long and hard about if bringing children into this is a good idea, because it will be one more aspect of your faith divide to argue about.

There are no easy, simple, or quick solutions to the situation you have created. I wish you best of luck.

 

[BlossomingFaith]

Are you receiving advice from a trusted priest regarding your courses of action?

You seem confused on a few issues. You need to seek clarification on them, rather than leaping to assumptions.

a) You don’t seem to know that dispensations from mass are possible. Why didn’t you discuss the situation with a priest before getting into such a pickle with your husband over this?

b) You aren’t currently having sex with your husband and don’t seem to intent to. In that case, you do not need a convalidation before going to confession. You would only need to wait for a convalidation to confess if marital relations were continuing.

c) Have you considered a radical sanation?

Your husband is understandably frustrated with the changes you are imposing on him. Don’t compound this with misunderstandings and outright errors regarding the faith. You need the advice of a good priest on these matters.

PS Yes, God and your own salvation come first. But it should not be an either or situation. A good priest can guide you through this difficult time.

Thank you for this post. Your advice makes a lot of sense. I went from an all-religions lead to Heaven person to having an intense feeling to go back to the Catholic Church. I jumped in with both feet and got a lot of information from the internet. I can see that this is not good. I want my husband to revert as well and I know I am doing the opposite with my actions.

I dont know if I should have sex with my husband or not. I wouldnt be doing it for myself. I would be doing it to meet his emotional and physical needs and out of love for him. Would that be a sin? I dont know, but honestlh I am imagining talking to God and I am having a harder time justifying my selfishness if I keep denying him. I have heard of radical sanation but I am not sure I qualify. I was on birth control when we married. Although we planned on children, I dont know if that invalidates the marriage according to the rules? I used God’s name in my wedding and I considered that a real promise. I wasnt Catholic at the time.

I Am a little embarrassed to talk to a priest… Maybe my Catholic therapist could put me in touch with someone? i guess I should talk to my Parish Priest, though?

 

[underacloud]

i guess I should talk to my Parish Priest, though?

YES!

He can answer all your questions and advise you on a good approach to the various challenges you and your husband face.

No need to feel embarrassed. I’m not even sure why you would.

 

[BlossomingFaith]

Couple thoughts from the non-catholic in a mixed marriage……

You said your vows once, and presumably you meant them. In God’s eyes you are married, thus having sex with your husband is not going to land you a first class ticket to hell. The Catholic Church needs to you make it square with them. It was hugely hurtful to me to have my husband and his priest tell me that the day I had spent 8 months planning, and had gone through hoops to make beautiful, holy, and meaningful was meaningless in their eyes. The priest even had the audacity to tell me we could just resay our vows today in front of him and it would all be good. Seriously……words said spontaneously in my torn jeans and a t shirt are OK, but a day 8 months in planning, in a church, officiated by two pastors was not. Needless to say that meeting did not end well. I literally told him if he wanted to watch me say my vows he could watch the wedding video. I was STEAMING MAD. Hence radical sanation…….because hell was going to freeze over before I called a redo on my wedding day.

You husband probably feels the same way. To be told you wedding day, one of the most important days in your life was meaningless feels pretty horrible. Really horrible actually.

Also in the last several years we have rearranged family plans, disrupted holidays and bent over backwards to accommodate my husband’s need for mass each week. On holidays it’s really annoying to have to plan around my family’s Lutheran service that everyone goes to AND making sure he gets to mass. He ends up doing a lot of Christmas and Easter vigil masses which go on FOREVER and get done very late making him tired and cranky the next day. Super fun. Asking him after the deposit has been put down to rearrange a vacation for mass is kinda selfish. Asking a cruise ship alter their port schedule to accommodate your need for mass…….really?!?!?!?! Come on Even my uber follow the rules Catholic husband would not ask that.

Do not even get me started on NFP. Which is being resolved once and for all by me with a Tubal in about 4 weeks.

You have basically changed the entire game on your husband at a time when he was fighting a life-threatening illness, and you are upset with him!!! What you have done is unfair. It may be right in your eyes and following your conscience, but it is very unfair. I feel really bad for your husband.

You mentioned above that you were wondering if you were being selfish……then you mention you first put your own family and career before him and now are doing the same with the Catholic Church. You also say you love him and can’t live without him…….but you can’t seem to make him a priority in your life. If I was him I’d be questioning your love too. Add in denying him sex because you want to wait until your convalidation ……….can you blame him for thinking you don’t care.

Praying for your marriage is good. Praying for his conversion in the same breath is not. He may never convert, and continually hoping for it is just setting you up for future heart ache. Also is will put huge pressure on him, and will reinforce his questioning of your love for him. It has for me. I constantly live with the feeling that my husband would love me more if I was Catholic. From personal experience that feeling totally, and completely sucks.

You have to decide if your marriage is worth possibly having to make small compromises in your PRACTICE of your faith. If you cannot or will not occasionally be willing to work with your husband or compromise you will break your marriage. You need to make this call BEFORE getting a convalidation or radical sanation, because getting an annulment after that is REALLY hard. You also need to think long and hard about if bringing children into this is a good idea, because it will be one more aspect of your faith divide to argue about.

There are no easy, simple, or quick solutions to the situation you have created. I wish you best of luck.

I appreciate the honesty. Trust me, I feel every bit as horrible about myself as hour comments portray. I am willing to do anything to save my marriage. I wouldn’t love him more if he were Catholic, but obviously I would love it if he were, and it would bring me joy and relief. But, I do love him just as he is. I know he is a good person. Better than me in some ways. I am sure your husband loves you too and not less for not being Catholic.

Just to clarify, I am not asking a cruise line to change their port schedule, as no one woukd ever do that, but we have a few dates we can pick from. If a dispensation is possible, that might be my answer. But i guess it did bring me to where I am.

Since my reversion/his diagnosis I was finally able to realize my selfishness. I did not realize this until then- actually a few weeks before I started to gradually realize…

I never expected to have the conversion experience I did. I dont want to hurt anyone because of it. Least of all my husband.

 

[Alix1912]

I appreciate the honesty. Trust me, I feel every bit as horrible about myself as hour comments portray. I am willing to do anything to save my marriage. I wouldn’t love him more if he were Catholic, but obviously I would love it if he were, and it would bring me joy and relief. But, I do love him just as he is. I know he is a good person. Better than me in some ways. I am sure your husband loves you too and not less for not being Catholic.
Just to clarify, I am not asking a cruise line to change their port schedule, as no one woukd ever do that, but we have a few dates we can pick from. If a dispensation is possible, that might be my answer. But i guess it did bring me to where I am.

Since my reversion/his diagnosis I was finally able to realize my selfishness. I did not realize this until then- actually a few weeks before I started to gradually realize…

I never expected to have the conversion experience I did. I dont want to hurt anyone because of it. Least of all my husband.

You bolded sentence contradicts itself. You would be happier and relieved if he just simply converted…but also love him as he is??? You can say you love him the way he is, but as long as you pray for him to be something else you have a contradiction.

We often never sent out to or intend to hurt people with our actions. However, we often do. Since you changed the responsibility lies with YOU to make the change and transition as easy as possible on him. You might also find a simple…“I’m sorry I have hurt you with all this, how can we work together through this” might go a LONG way.

 

[BlossomingFaith]

You bolded sentence contradicts itself. You would be happier and relieved if he just simply converted…but also love him as he is??? You can say you love him the way he is, but as long as you pray for him to be something else you have a contradiction.

We often never sent out to or intend to hurt people with our actions. However, we often do. Since you changed the responsibility lies with YOU to make the change and transition as easy as possible on him. You might also find a simple…“I’m sorry I have hurt you with all this, how can we work together through this” might go a LONG way.

I appreciate your advice but I dont agree with the first part. What about anyone who prays for a loved one’s conversion? They dont truly love the person? St. Monica didnt really love her son?

I completely agree with the second part, though. I’ve said it already and I mean it.

 

[BlossomingFaith]

I did talk to my husband tonight. Hes still not onboard with convalidation. He doesnt understand why I need religion to be the wife I should have been. He says it is all in me, etc.

We were physically affectionate (not sex), which was nice and I hope will begin the road of improving our marriage.

I am trying. I regret so much of what I have done, but either there is a way out or there isn’t. I pray that there is and that one day I can find a normal life.

 

[without]

-recent revert

Why are you doing this? What made you change your mind?

You changed the contract by reverting so you need to be the one who makes the concessions… No sex for months, changing vacation plans, husband both talking divorce and suiside?

Please get help from someplace other than a web forum. Your husbands life could be on the line.

 

[underacloud]

You bolded sentence contradicts itself. You would be happier and relieved if he just simply converted…but also love him as he is??? You can say you love him the way he is, but as long as you pray for him to be something else you have a contradiction.

When you love someone, you want what’s best for them. This is the motivation behind those who pray for the conversion of their spouse or children (eg St Monica).

IMO there is no contradiction. No more so than say the OP praying that her husband would overcome his cancer. Or should she just have loved him “the way he is”? Of course not. In a similar way, lack of faith is spiritual illness and she prays for his spiritual health.

 

[Gliggle]

No Specific advice, but keep praying every day as God can use your suffering and this difficult time to bring you and your husband closer to him (and hopefully eachother).

 

[Alix1912]

When you love someone, you want what’s best for them. This is the motivation behind those who pray for the conversion of their spouse or children (eg St Monica).

IMO there is no contradiction. No more so than say the OP praying that her husband would overcome his cancer. Or should she just have loved him “the way he is”? Of course not. In a similar way, lack of faith is spiritual illness and she prays for his spiritual health.

There is a contradiction:

I love you the way you are…but for me to be happiest and relieved it would be better if you converted.

I love you the way you are…but our marriage means nothing because a priest did not bless it, OH and no sex for us until you agree to said blessing.

I love you the way you are…but I never made you a priority before, and now that I’ve converted I’ve seen the light of my selfishness, so now I will focus on you…except in all things Catholic oriented in which you have to work around my needs…UNTIL of course you convert too, in which case everything will be great.

I love you the way you are…and I used to share your faith, but now I think all non catholics probably won’t be saved so yeah.

You may love him the way he is and tell him everyday…but what he is really hearing and seeing based on your actions is I love you the way you are…BUT…

The cancer comparison doesn’t work either…Nobody wants to have cancer, anyone with cancer would ask you to pray for their recovery. However, someone who is happy in their faith is not going to ask you to pray for their conversion to something else. I’m assuming the OP’s husband wants to be cancer free…however, it’s fairly clear that he doesn’t want to be Catholic. Basically you are praying for him to become something he doesn’t want to be so that you can be happy and relieved, and he has expressed an abject wish not to be…expresses you love him the way he is how???

Also I cannot blame your husband for being suspect of your sudden conversion. You don’t seem to have spoken much with a priest or anyone IN the actual church. You even said you have gotten most of your information from the internet. If I was him I would doubt your seriousness too.

I really don’t like agreeing with someone who is an atheist on matters of faith…but “without” is right. You need to get help for your family from somewhere other than an internet forum. Actually, you need to go and talk to a REAL marriage therapist and a REAL priest or authority on your new found faith. REAL meaning an actual life person face to face. If you are enforcing rules or such that are not actually rules or in the wrong way because you read it online…you may be doing unnecessary damage to your marriage. I would also advise against a Catholic Marriage counselor as that is going to come off as a passive aggressive attempt to convert.

If you want your marriage and your new faith to have even a small degree of harmony get real live help.

Last thing…DO NOT bring children into this AT ALL, until you have dealt with the faith thing. Trust me, kids only made my husband’s and I’s faith divide worse not better.

 

[1ke]

You changed the contract

Marriage isn’t a contract. A valid marriage is a covenant, and a sacrament between the baptized.

by reverting so you need to be the one who makes the concessions… No sex for months, changing vacation plans,

God comes first. We can make many concessions, but we cannot sin.

husband both talking divorce and suiside?

A person trying to blackmail another person by threatening divorce or suicide has something wrong with them. It is a manipulative tactic, and this person needs professional help, perhaps for depression.

Please get help from someplace other than a web forum.

If she wanted secular advice, I believe she would have gone to a secular board. But, she wants Catholic advice, hence her post on a Catholic board.

Your husbands life could be on the line.

Her husband should speak to a mental health professional.

 

[underacloud]

Alix,

I am sorry that your own experiences with your husband’s reversion have been so negative. But I believe you are projecting those issues onto the OP, and all Catholics really.

There is a contradiction:

I love you the way you are…but **for me to be happiest and relieved **it would be better if you converted.

There’s a contradiction if you presume selfish motives, as you have done here.

But when praying for the conversion of a loved one, it is (or should be) about their best interests.

The cancer comparison doesn’t work either…Nobody wants to have cancer, anyone with cancer would ask you to pray for their recovery. However, someone who is happy in their faith is not going to ask you to pray for their conversion to something else. I’m assuming the OP’s husband wants to be cancer free…however, it’s fairly clear that he doesn’t want to be Catholic. Basically you are praying for him to become something he doesn’t want to be so that you can be happy and relieved, and he has expressed an abject wish not to be…expresses you love him the way he is how???

Nobody wants to be spiritiually unwell…whether they know it or not. People lacking faith do not know that they would be better off with faith, but we don’t abandom them to their ignorance.

Again, it’s about wanting what is best for them. As a fellow Christian I’m surprised that this is so contraversial for you.

That said, I generally agree with the rest of what you’ve said…the OP does need to meet with a priest ASAP…

Also I cannot blame your husband for being suspect of your sudden conversion. You don’t seem to have spoken much with a priest or anyone IN the actual church. You even said you have gotten most of your information from the internet. If I was him I would doubt your seriousness too.

I really don’t like agreeing with someone who is an atheist on matters of faith…but “without” is right. You need to get help for your family from somewhere other than an internet forum. Actually, you need to go and talk to a REAL marriage therapist and a REAL priest or authority on your new found faith. REAL meaning an actual life person face to face. If you are enforcing rules or such that are not actually rules or in the wrong way because you read it online…you may be doing unnecessary damage to your marriage. I would also advise against a Catholic Marriage counselor as that is going to come off as a passive aggressive attempt to convert.

If you want your marriage and your new faith to have even a small degree of harmony get real live help.

Last thing…DO NOT bring children into this AT ALL, until you have dealt with the faith thing. Trust me, kids only made my husband’s and I’s faith divide worse not better.

 

[Alix1912]

Alix,

I am sorry that your own experiences with your husband’s reversion have been so negative. But I believe you are projecting those issues onto the OP, and all Catholics really.

There’s a contradiction if you presume selfish motives, as you have done here.

But when praying for the conversion of a loved one, it is (or should be) about their best interests.

Nobody wants to be spiritiually unwell…whether they know it or not. People lacking faith do not know that they would be better off with faith, but we don’t abandom them to their ignorance.

Again, it’s about wanting what is best for them. As a fellow Christian I’m surprised that this is so contraversial for you.

That said, I generally agree with the rest of what you’ve said…the OP does need to meet with a priest ASAP…

The happy and relieved reference was the OP’s own words not mine.

Also what if her husband is not lacking in faith…we cannot assume that just because he is no longer a practicing Catholic that he has no faith or is spiritually unwell. He just isn’t Catholic, he may have a strong faith in another denomination. The strong faith = you must be catholic thing is a bit presumptuous. What if someone is not spiritually ill, but they are not catholic either…isn’t praying for them to be Catholic because ti would make your marriage easier…unfair to them.

 

[underacloud]

The happy and relieved reference was the OP’s own words not mine.

Well, this is what she said…

I wouldn’t love him more if he were Catholic, but obviously I would love it if he were, and it would bring me joy and relief. But, I do love him just as he is. I know he is a good person. Better than me in some ways.

Please note she said “…and it would bring me joy and relied”. The word “and” indicating that her own joy and relief were secondary motives. Her primary motive being love for her husband and wanting what’s best for him.

Also what if her husband is not lacking in faith…we cannot assume that just because he is no longer a practicing Catholic that he has no faith or is spiritually unwell. He just isn’t Catholic, he may have a strong faith in another denomination. The strong faith = you must be catholic thing is a bit presumptuous. What if someone is not spiritually ill, but they are not catholic either…isn’t praying for them to be Catholic because ti would make your marriage easier…unfair to them.

You must appreciate that this is a Catholic forum and as such you should appreciate our perspective that the Catholic faith is the fullness of truth and the best approach for everyone.

So yes, Catholics are interested in the conversion of everyone to the faith, and especially those closest to us. And this is not merely about being saved, but about having the fullest relationship with God that any person possibly can. And we believe that this is acheived through practise of the Catholic faith.

…isn’t praying for them to be Catholic because ti would make your marriage easier…unfair to them.

Yes, it is unfair. But let’s not presume that the OP, or anyone praying for the conversion of a spouse or child, has selfish motives.

 

[mommy_k]

I would personally talk to a priest asap.

To lead others to sin in terms of divorce, and creating disharmony, frustration, the feelings of being neglected and so on is not what the church wants when following it’s teachings. That is not the purpose. How can deeply huring your husband not be a sin too?

It sounds like trading one sin for another if the teaching is followed. A lose–lose situation.

Really-talk to a priest asap.

 

[Vico]

Well, he doesnt want the convalidation, although he didnt say no to it. He just doesnt see the need.

I havent told him we should wait until after since we dont have that worked out yet. We just aren’t having sex because we haven’t in months- before I knew I needed a convalidation to confess.

Sometimes I just get so fed up with this and with myself I just think that there is literally no right thing to do.

also it seems you were not Catholic when you married outside the Church, was he Catholic then? The* Catholic form of matrimony* is not required unless one of the couple is Catholic.
BlossomingFaith;:

I used God’s name in my wedding and I considered that a real promise. I wasnt Catholic at the time.

If he was catholic then, you may not be able to get a simple convalidation but may need a retroactive convalidation (radical sanation) instead because of canon 1157 which applies to simple convalidation, because he does not believe it was null (“he just doesn’t see the need”).Can. 1157 The renewal of consent must be a new act of the will concerning a marriage which the renewing party knows or thinks was null from the beginning.