Please help me understand

[Paige2009]

Hello, everyone.

I’m a Protestant Christian, and have been considering becoming a Catholic for some time. However, I have some trouble with some Catholic theology and I’m here in the hopes that some Catholic people can help me to better understand your beliefs. Before I list the issues that are giving me trouble, please understand that I’m NOT here to bash your church or your faith. I simply want to state how I feel, and I’m asking you to give me real correction to my misunderstandings. Please do not take my views as an attack.

Before you read, please join me in a prayer that God will open all of our eyes to His authentic truth, and will lead us all to Him.

Also, this is going to be rather long. I apologize for that in advance.

(1) Virgin Mary. As you all probably already know, Protestants do not hold to the perpetual virginity of Mary. I’m not sure about it, but I can submit to church teachings on this. However, I do not see in the Bible where Mary is born free of sin, assumed into heaven, and crowned Queen of Heaven.

As a Protestant, I believe that if it’s not in the Bible (i.e., God’s true word ), then even if it’s beneficial, I can only accept it as completely reliable if it is compatible with the Bible.

My understanding of the Catholic view of Mary is that she is a mediatrix between us and Jesus, and this is my major stumbling block. My view is that Jesus came to us in order to bring us to God; He is our mediator and our advocate. When he died, the veil in the temple was torn from top to bottom (Mark 15:38), signifying that there was no longer a division between God and us, and that we are able to be in His presence directly. Even though I do believe that Mary is a saint and worthy of our admiration, I don’t believe that she has anything to do with whether or not Jesus hears my prayers, or the final disposition of my soul when I die (… pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.) I don’t understand why we *need *her intercession, when Jesus died for us and the Holy Spirit is constantly with us. This leads me to my second problem …

(2) Praying to saints. The actual prayers to saints do not disturb me. Remembering the exceptional examples of the saints is a good thing to do, and emulating their examples is admirable. But the issue I have with Mary is very close to the issue of asking saints to intercede with God for me. Why is this necessary?

(3) Do Catholics HAVE to confess to priests before receiving communion? I have no problem with examining my soul, confessing to the Lord, and asking for forgiveness from Him before coming to receive communion. That’s something that Catholics and Protestants have in common. And I think it’s good to confess to God with another person (priest, deacon, whoever) present, so that we have good accountability and someone to discuss ways to avoid sin in the future, but I don’t understand the absolute requirement of confessing to a priest.

(4) Infallibility of the Pope. I know that this does not mean that the Pope isn’t a sinner or that he doesn’t need Jesus just like every other human being. I do understand it means that when the Pope makes a theological statement, that the Holy Spirit keeps him from making a mistake. Is this an accurate description of the Pope’s infallibility? If so, then please explain to me where this doctrine comes from.

(5) And the last thing today … is it true that to become Catholic, that a person is required to agree with everything the Church teaches? I ask this because I have some reservations and if I’m required to agree with every last thing the Church teaches, then I don’t know if I’m ever going to be able to be a Catholic. I don’t see how anyone can 100% agree with any church, because we’re all fallen, sinful individuals.

Actually, I think that’s enough… for now at least.

God’s blessings on us all,
Paige

 

[TLM08]

Hello, everyone.

I’m a Protestant Christian, and have been considering becoming a Catholic for some time. However, I have some trouble with some Catholic theology and I’m here in the hopes that some Catholic people can help me to better understand your beliefs. Before I list the issues that are giving me trouble, please understand that I’m NOT here to bash your church or your faith. I simply want to state how I feel, and I’m asking you to give me real correction to my misunderstandings. Please do not take my views as an attack.

Before you read, please join me in a prayer that God will open all of our eyes to His authentic truth, and will lead us all to Him.

Also, this is going to be rather long. I apologize for that in advance.

(1) Virgin Mary. As you all probably already know, Protestants do not hold to the perpetual virginity of Mary. I’m not sure about it, but I can submit to church teachings on this. However, I do not see in the Bible where Mary is born free of sin, assumed into heaven, and crowned Queen of Heaven.

As a Protestant, I believe that if it’s not in the Bible (i.e., God’s true word ), then even if it’s beneficial, I can only accept it as completely reliable if it is compatible with the Bible.

My understanding of the Catholic view of Mary is that she is a mediatrix between us and Jesus, and this is my major stumbling block. My view is that Jesus came to us in order to bring us to God; He is our mediator and our advocate. When he died, the veil in the temple was torn from top to bottom (Mark 15:38), signifying that there was no longer a division between God and us, and that we are able to be in His presence directly. Even though I do believe that Mary is a saint and worthy of our admiration, I don’t believe that she has anything to do with whether or not Jesus hears my prayers, or the final disposition of my soul when I die (… pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.) I don’t understand why we *need *her intercession, when Jesus died for us and the Holy Spirit is constantly with us. This leads me to my second problem …

(2) Praying to saints. The actual prayers to saints do not disturb me. Remembering the exceptional examples of the saints is a good thing to do, and emulating their examples is admirable. But the issue I have with Mary is very close to the issue of asking saints to intercede with God for me. Why is this necessary?

(3) Do Catholics HAVE to confess to priests before receiving communion? I have no problem with examining my soul, confessing to the Lord, and asking for forgiveness from Him before coming to receive communion. That’s something that Catholics and Protestants have in common. And I think it’s good to confess to God with another person (priest, deacon, whoever) present, so that we have good accountability and someone to discuss ways to avoid sin in the future, but I don’t understand the absolute requirement of confessing to a priest.

(4) Infallibility of the Pope. I know that this does not mean that the Pope isn’t a sinner or that he doesn’t need Jesus just like every other human being. I do understand it means that when the Pope makes a theological statement, that the Holy Spirit keeps him from making a mistake. Is this an accurate description of the Pope’s infallibility? If so, then please explain to me where this doctrine comes from.

(5) And the last thing today … is it true that to become Catholic, that a person is required to agree with everything the Church teaches? I ask this because I have some reservations and if I’m required to agree with every last thing the Church teaches, then I don’t know if I’m ever going to be able to be a Catholic. I don’t see how anyone can 100% agree with any church, because we’re all fallen, sinful individuals.

Actually, I think that’s enough… for now at least.

God’s blessings on us all,
Paige

The Catholic Church considers “traditions” (s) of the Church to be on par with scripture itself. This is why there is so much of catholic teaching that at least in appearance seems to have no significant biblical foundation. My issue with catholicism is the fact that the Catechism of the Catholic Church doesn’t really come close to resembling the teachings of the apostles as written in the New Testament. There are many other issues as well. The Book of Hebrews for example declares that there is no longer any sacrificial offering for sin. By his once for all sacrifice Christ has made us perfect forever. Yet, the sacrifice of the Mass continues and catholics must be purified in purgatory. For me, I have returned to my non-denominational bible based church after reflecting on Paul’s warning to the Galatians about embracing “another” gospel… which is no gospel at all.

Your questions will take pages, maybe even entire chapters to answer properly from a catholic persepective. If you are truly seeking to become catholic, I would encourage you to study the issues one at a time.
Peace & God Bless.

 

[kleine_katerine]

Hey,

I converted to Catholicism back in April this year from no religious background and I have had lots of questions like yours. These are the answers I was given, hope they help.

First off I didn’t understand asking the saints for intercession either. The little I’d learned about Christianity through school had always said that when you pray, you pray to God and God alone. (I have grown up in a Protestant country though.) The way I had this explained to me was that Catholics believe that they are in a continual communion with the saints. Our prayers can be united to theirs before God. By asking a saint to pray for us it is like asking someone here on earth to do so except that they of course are in heaven and much closer to God. In James 5:16 it says; Therefore, make it your habit to confess your sins to one another and to pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. (Those in heaven could certainly be described as righteous!) We use their prayers as a weapon against evil (the rosary is often described as one of the most potent weapons against evil) and as something to help our cause. Through the saints we pray to Jesus, they simply help us present our case.

With regards to Mary, she was someone Jesus listened to. The wedding feast at Cana is one example. We ask for her help because she was “favoured” by God, by having her ‘on side’ as it were we hope we can be successful in what we are praying for. The notion of asking something of a king through his mother is found in 1 Kings (2:19-20). We ask her to pray for us when we die in the hope that God will have mercy on us. Again it’s like asking someone to pray for you on your deathbed. Also, we call her the queen of heaven because she is the mother of God (the King of kings), making her the queen mother.

This site can explain the immaculate conception better than me. Click here to read it.

Catholics have to confess all mortal sins to a priest to receive communion. They can receive communion in a state of venial sin I believe. Confession is a sacrament and by visiting the confessional you are celebrating the fact you are reconciling yourself to God.

You’re right about papal infallibility. An example of it’s origins are John 16:13, this site again explains it very well. Click here for the info.

And with your last question…I don’t know. I personally am trying to learn as much as I can and when I come across something I don’t agree with I question myself as to whether it’s my understanding that’s incorrect or my interpretation of what’s meant etc. If that fails I ask my parish priest. He’s excellent at answering my questions.

Hope this helps and good luck in your journey.

God bless,

Katherine

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Hi Paige
There is alot here probably too much and this will take you some years to understand. the key is to undersand you see the issues backwords. Consider the athism who says “Show me god first, then explain to me why it is god, then I’ll have faith” Their problem is to gain faith without a need of faith (seeing it first), so it does not work.

I am going to ask you to think through it rather than read answers which it seems are being rejected

Hello, everyone.
…Please do not take my views as an attack.

(1) Virgin Mary. As you all probably already know, Protestants do not hold to the perpetual virginity of Mary. I’m not sure about it, but I can submit to church teachings on this. However, I do not see in the Bible where Mary is born free of sin, assumed into heaven, and crowned Queen of Heaven.

As a Protestant, I believe that if it’s not in the Bible (i.e., God’s true word ), then even if it’s beneficial, I can only accept it as completely reliable if it is compatible with the Bible.

My understanding of the Catholic view of Mary is that she is a mediatrix between us and Jesus, and this is my major stumbling block. My view is that Jesus came to us in order to bring us to God; He is our mediator and our advocate. When he died, the veil in the temple was torn from top to bottom (Mark 15:38), signifying that there was no longer a division between God and us, and that we are able to be in His presence directly. Even though I do believe that Mary is a saint and worthy of our admiration, I don’t believe that she has anything to do with whether or not Jesus hears my prayers, or the final disposition of my soul when I die (… pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.) I don’t understand why we *need *her intercession, when Jesus died for us and the Holy Spirit is constantly with us. This leads me to my second problem …

If Mary was a carrier of sin would Jesus also have sin?

(2) Praying to saints. The actual prayers to saints do not disturb me. Remembering the exceptional examples of the saints is a good thing to do, and emulating their examples is admirable. But the issue I have with Mary is very close to the issue of asking saints to intercede with God for me. Why is this necessary?

It is not necessary but wise. First do you believe there are saints? and do you understand what a saint is?

(3) Do Catholics HAVE to confess to priests before receiving communion? I have no problem with examining my soul, confessing to the Lord, and asking for forgiveness from Him before coming to receive communion. That’s something that Catholics and Protestants have in common. And I think it’s good to confess to God with another person (priest, deacon, whoever) present, so that we have good accountability and someone to discuss ways to avoid sin in the future, but I don’t understand the absolute requirement of confessing to a priest.

Since god knew your sin when you commited it to him why do you confess? and is confession all you do? Before Christ people gave a sacrifice for sins, why? Why would they burn their best animal their thing of highest value then yet you consider silence a better confession?

(4) Infallibility of the Pope. I know that this does not mean that the Pope isn’t a sinner or that he doesn’t need Jesus just like every other human being. I do understand it means that when the Pope makes a theological statement, that the Holy Spirit keeps him from making a mistake. Is this an accurate description of the Pope’s infallibility? If so, then please explain to me where this doctrine comes from.

Would that be doctrine or dogma? I think it is in Matthew 16 when Peter recieves the keys? Then in Acts 10 (?)when Peter is visited about the clean and unclean. So explain to me how every person recieves that visit. See without the visitation others cannot know unless Peter tells them. But if Peter tells them and they refuse to listen well, what good is that? If Peter holds the keys then how can they ignor the keys and expect the door to be open?

(5) And the last thing today … is it true that to become Catholic, that a person is required to agree with everything the Church teaches? I ask this because I have some reservations and if I’m required to agree with every last thing the Church teaches, then I don’t know if I’m ever going to be able to be a Catholic. I don’t see how anyone can 100% agree with any church, because we’re all fallen, sinful individuals.

Actually, I think that’s enough… for now at least.

God’s blessings on us all,
Paige

We tell our people to look at the creed if they agree with that then they are pretty much good to go, now the problems you already list do need to be worked out.

 

[mark_a]

Hello, everyone.

Hello Paige!

As a Protestant, I believe that if it’s not in the Bible (i.e., God’s true word ), then even if it’s beneficial, I can only accept it as completely reliable if it is compatible with the Bible.

As Catholics see it, there is nothing about Catholic theology that is incompatible with the bible. There is explicit text (Jesus was born of a virgin) and implicit text (the Trinity).

(3) Do Catholics HAVE to confess to priests before receiving communion? I have no problem with examining my soul, confessing to the Lord, and asking for forgiveness from Him before coming to receive communion. That’s something that Catholics and Protestants have in common. And I think it’s good to confess to God with another person (priest, deacon, whoever) present, so that we have good accountability and someone to discuss ways to avoid sin in the future, but I don’t understand the absolute requirement of confessing to a priest.

I don’t know about you, but the sins that I don’t want to confess are the ones in most need of confession. Confession is required for mortal sins only.

People go to their minister for marriage, communion, baptism, and confirmation (ie all the nice stuff) so shouldn’t they go to confession? (special thanks to LilyM for that jewel).

(4) Infallibility of the Pope. I know that this does not mean that the Pope isn’t a sinner or that he doesn’t need Jesus just like every other human being. I do understand it means that when the Pope makes a theological statement, that the Holy Spirit keeps him from making a mistake. Is this an accurate description of the Pope’s infallibility? If so, then please explain to me where this doctrine comes from.

Partially accurate.

Conditions that must be met for a papal statement to be infallible

• Must teach or in some way clarify
• Can’t contradict previous teachings
• Must involve faith and morals
• To be held by all
• Statement made of his own free will
• He must invoke the full authority of his office

(5) And the last thing today … is it true that to become Catholic, that a person is required to agree with everything the Church teaches?

One cannot deny any doctrine. Which is much different than being in 100% in agreement and understanding.

I ask this because I have some reservations

Join the club. I find the whole dogma of the Trinity very difficult.

and if I’m required to agree with every last thing the Church teaches, then I don’t know if I’m ever going to be able to be a Catholic. I don’t see how anyone can 100% agree with any church, because we’re all fallen, sinful individuals.

One last thing: Be sure to check out the morals teachings of the Church. Especially abortion, contraception, marriage, etc. These are much more difficult to live than the faith teachings and is, in fact, where most of us Catholics fall short.

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

Paige asks:
(5) And the last thing today … is it true that to become Catholic, that a person is required to agree with everything the Church teaches? I ask this because I have some reservations and if I’m required to agree with every last thing the Church teaches, then I don’t know if I’m ever going to be able to be a Catholic. I don’t see how anyone can 100% agree with any church, because we’re all fallen, sinful individuals.

Actually, I think that’s enough… for now at least.

God’s blessings on us all,
Paige

Hi Paige.

Five is the only thing that matters. To be Catholic, one believes everything the Catholic Church teaches. You are Catholic when you become convinced that Christ began and started the One Catholic Church, and belief in everything that Church teaches comes not from taking every controversy one by one and discerning that the better argument is made by the Catholics.

That is way too hard. If examination of every argument were the way to the one Church Christ founded, where does that leave those of us who lack the time, not to mention lacking the philosophical and theological acumen to decide between brilliant, clever, and subtle arguments on every side?

I believe that the Apostolic Church founded at Rome, where Sts. Peter and Paul ministered and finished their earthly courses with glorious martyrdoms is the place that preserved the teachings of all of the Apostles. I say this because it is pre-eminently at Rome that the earliest martyrs, whose blood was the seed of the Church, fell.

Don’t mistake my meaning here, I care about what the Church has taught through the ages, how doctrine has developed in the Church, and how practices have appeared based on finer understandings of doctrine. But how I arrive at the trust I place in the Church’s teaching is very simple. I am following an apostolic line of continuity that is traceable that reaches from Pope Benedict XVI to the Apostles and back again.

I want to believe whatever it was that made the second and third century martyrs cling to Christ. St. Irenaeus already said in the second century that the way to decide what to believe was not by examing every argument but this way:

…we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the who exist everywhere.

—St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 3, ch. 3, para. 2

He isn’t saying that the shepherds, farmers, merchants, and fishermen of the Empire were capable of doing what we imagine we can do today. The Church would never have survived if it was established upon a principle whereby each individual examines the articles of faith and listens to the arguments on both sides and sees straight to the heart of the matter. I’m a truck driver. I see that the Apostolic road leads to and from Rome. What THAT Church teaches, on account of its “preeminent authority”…that’s what I want to believe. That’s my faith. And if I ever say anything accidentally that doesn’t agree with that Church, God knows my heart. I submit to the Church founded by Christ, planted by Peter and Paul, and perpetuated by 264 bishops of Rome. I believe whatever that Church says, because her Founder is God, and He will not fail to keep her.

Rory

 

[Ceil-1]

Paige, Rory is right.

If you do not trut that the Church has the authority to speak for God, there is no point in trying to convince yourself of doctrinal points. You don’t have the background for it.

I suggest that you start at the Old Testament, with an eye to salvation history and the covenantal bond b/w God and man. A good Bible study would be The Great Adventure series by Jeff Cavins. Here is a link:

search.catholiccompany.com/catholic/great%20adventures%20jeff%20cavin

I know that, as a nurse, I am glad the doctor is running the “code blue”. That I am not making the decisions regarding how to bring to life, or preserve the life, of the patient. He must decide the medications, their amounts, when to “shock” him, etc. I may administer the treatment and meds that have been prescribed, but I do not own the results. I am judged by how well I carry out the doctor’s orders.

A Protestant, due to his lack of trust in the Church, takes on the role of the doctor when, at best, even the most learned have no more training than a nurse. Most have next to none. They have neither the knowledge nor the authority to take on this role.

My advice to you, sister, is to study the Bible, first the Old Testament, then the New. You can use both Protestant and Catholic studies (good ones) and compare them. The Truth will be obvious to you, if you are sincerely seeking.

God bless.

 

[Paige2009]

Thank you all … Katharine, Rory, Ceil, Mark, Texas Roofer … for answering me with love and honesty, as befits Christians. I know that Jesus is pleased with you. You all have given me lots to think about and pray about.

The only things I’d like to refer to are these:

If you do not trut that the Church has the authority to speak for God, there is no point in trying to convince yourself of doctrinal points. You don’t have the background for it.

Maybe this is a crucial sticking point for me, because as I read this (and other comments like it), it really struck a cord with me. I know that I sin, and so does every other human being who has ever lived, with the exception of Jesus, of course. Because we sin, we can only have imperfect understanding of what God wants from us. So I fear deliberately choosing something that I believe is wrong. So perhaps I currently don’t trust that the Church has the authority for speak for God. That’s why I’m asking for help, to aid me in discerning what is right and wrong. And that’s precisely the help that you kind folks have tried to give me.

As Catholics see it, there is nothing about Catholic theology that is incompatible with the bible. There is explicit text (Jesus was born of a virgin) and implicit text (the Trinity).

I didn’t mean to imply that Catholic theology is incompatible with the Bible, even though I can see from my words that you might think so. There are elements of the church that I have trouble seeing in the Bible. That’s all that I meant. I’m sorry if it came out wrong.

Again, thank you all for your help.

God bless!

 

[Paige2009]

One last thing: Be sure to check out the morals teachings of the Church. Especially abortion, contraception, marriage, etc. These are much more difficult to live than the faith teachings and is, in fact, where most of us Catholics fall short.

This is what’s odd … I can honestly say that I agree with and can live with the teachings on abortion, contraception, and marriage. I believe that abortion is an absolute evil, and must be avoided at all costs. I believe that contraception is tantamount to abortion and causes us to deny what God may have planned for us, and the denial of God’s will should also be avoided at all costs. The Catholic rules on marriage are good, if sometimes a little strict, but Jesus holds marriage up as an example of God’s relationship with his people, and Christian marriage should reflect that. Therefore, I can live with what the Church teaches on marriage.

But you’re right that I should familiarize myself with ALL the Church’s teachings. Thanks for reminding me of that.

 

[Timothysis]

As a Protestant, I believe that if it’s not in the Bible (i.e., God’s true word ), then even if it’s beneficial, I can only accept it as completely reliable if it is compatible with the Bible.

If this is your belief, then you will always be protestant. The beliefs of the Catholic Church are based on it’s own history, traditions and theology. The Bible is not the end all of Christian theology; it wasn’t until the 16th century protestant revolt that this concept came into being. And what was the result? Today, there are over 30,000 denominations in the world. There is a reason why the Catholic Church is reviled by those who despise it (when was the last time you heard criticisms of the Lutheran, Episcopalian or Methodist churches); it is because they recognize the legitimacy of the Catholic Church.

 

[Paige2009]

If this is your belief, then you will always be protestant. The beliefs of the Catholic Church are based on it’s own history, traditions and theology. The Bible is not the end all of Christian theology; it wasn’t until the 16th century protestant revolt that this concept came into being. And what was the result? Today, there are over 30,000 denominations in the world. There is a reason why the Catholic Church is reviled by those who despise it (when was the last time you heard criticisms of the Lutheran, Episcopalian or Methodist churches); it is because they recognize the legitimacy of the Catholic Church.

sigh And it was going so well…

 

[Timothysis]

sigh And it was going so well…

I don’t intend to be mean, but you express your desire to become Catholic and then undermine everything that the Church teaches and believes. You even ask "is it true that to become Catholic, that a person is required to agree with everything the Church teaches?" The short answer is, yes, you do. If you cannot accept the doctrines and dogmas about the Blessed Virgin Mary then that is a hurdle you will probably never overcome.

I’m sorry to sound so blunt, that’s just the way it is; to truly be Catholic, one must believe what the Church teaches.

 

[ricmat]

Paige, it might be useful to you to explore how the Bible “came to be.” For over 300 years after Christ, there was no “bible.” The reason it was created was to provide a set of scripture readings for Mass across the entire Christian world. It was the Catholic church that determined which of the documents, many with opposite meanings, were divinely inspired and would be included in the Bible. And the Bible translated by St. Jerome was the ONLY one in use from about the year 400 until the Reformation.

It is actually the Tradition of the Catholic Church which engendered the book we call the bible, and the power of the Holy Spirit working through the power given to Peter and his successors which allows a proper interpretation of it.

A good book to start with is “Where We Got the Bible” by Rev. Henry G. Graham (a non-Catholic BTW). I’m sure there is also a lot of info elsewhere on this site as well (but I don’t have the links handy.)

Also, those above who mentioned that your #5 is the only “important” one did hit the nail on the head. But that being said, it is obviously more fulfilling to find answers to your other questions as well.

Good luck with your search.

God bless.

LATE EDIT: My understanding of “must one believe what the church teaches” is that you must at least “conditionally” believe. You may have doubts - that is normal. You may need more information - that is normal. But to be Catholic you must at least agree to work towards a better understanding of those things which you have some doubt in.

 

[Ceil-1]

Paige, this is going to sound mean as well, but not to you.

You might as well know that there is a faction of Catholics who consider themselves “more Catholic than the pope”.

They do everything better than anyone else, and they are holier to boot. Mass must be done in, not just Latin, but using a **very ** specific formula at that. I could go on and on, but, that would not be nice There is little, if any, Christian charity in any of their interactions unless you are one of “them”. It is unfortunate, but, we love them, and pray for their souls just the same. Ignore their tirades. It’s the only way to deal with it. :

 

[wisdomseeker]

This is what’s odd … I can honestly say that I agree with and can live with the teachings on abortion, contraception, and marriage. I believe that abortion is an absolute evil, and must be avoided at all costs. I believe that contraception is tantamount to abortion and causes us to deny what God may have planned for us, and the denial of God’s will should also be avoided at all costs. The Catholic rules on marriage are good, if sometimes a little strict, but Jesus holds marriage up as an example of God’s relationship with his people, and Christian marriage should reflect that. Therefore, I can live with what the Church teaches on marriage.

But you’re right that I should familiarize myself with ALL the Church’s teachings. Thanks for reminding me of that.

welcome to the Catholic forum.

here are some good info for you to learn something about the Church.

and may Our God open your eyes and ears to His Truth. i understand you come from a complete different belief.

scripturecatholic.com/

 

[RoryMcKenzie56]

Hi again Paige.

You know, Catholics are not required to cultivate a personal Marian devotion or pray to any of the saints. Many serious Catholics do. However, you should know that this is by permission, not command. One can fulfill their obligations as a Catholic without doing this, although you cannot contend that others may not. Concerning prayers to the saints you ask, “Why is this necessary?”. Strictly speaking then, it is not necessary, except in those instances where the liturgy obliges us as a community to certain intercessions to the saints.

You are correct in understanding the very serious need to distinguish between Christ as Mediator with God and Our Lady as Mediatrix with her Son. Properly understood, the defined Marian doctrines are prerogatives stemming from the extraordinary life of grace which was suitable unto one who had been prophesied about first in Genesis, foreshadowed by Isaias, and who was privileged to be the one who would carry God’s only begotten Son inside of her body.

Serious reflection upon what it means to have almighty God inside of our bodies through Holy Communion for perhaps twenty minutes brings the fully recollected soul to realizations about created and uncreated reality that has limitless potential to sanctify the soul.

But the Blessed Mother, didn’t just consume the Son as we do in Holy Communion. Mary carried God in her womb for nine months. The Sacred Humanity which Christ possessed came from the Mother alone of course. The Precious Blood of Jesus Christ flowed through the Mother of God through this entire time, and then for thirty years she lived with Him. Even apart from being “full of grace” before the Incarnation, how much more must the Woman of Genesis 3 have been sanctified by such proximity to her Saviour.

Why did St. John the Baptist leap in Elizabeth’s womb at Mary’s visitation? Because of the effects of the near proximity of Christ of course. But the Scripture says that it was actually the voice of Mary, at which the babe was affected:

And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.

—Luke 2:43-45

What follows is the Magnificat where Our Lady affirms, as recorded in inspired Scripture, what Elizabeth said, about how she is “Blessed among women”. Not only that but in verse 48 she says that “all generations will call me blessed”. Ordinarily blessed, as many others, or extraordinally blessed among women? What about “the full of grace” spoken of by Gabriel? Do we think it is an ordinary amount of grace? Not me. Extraordinary. Way extraordinary as the kids might say!

Mary is spoken of in the Church Fathers as the Second Eve and it certainly seems an appropriate comparison. The first Eve, when approached with a proposition by an angel, Satan, in the form of a serpent, she fell, bringing her posterity with her. When the Second Eve said yes to the Angel Gabriel, it set into motion all of the events which redeem fallen humanity. Just as Eve is our mother unto death. Mary is our mother unto life.

I am not trying convince beyond a shadow of doubt. But I suggest that the Immaculate Conception, the Assumption, and even the undefined coronation of Mary as Queen of Heaven, follow from serious reflection on alternative points of view. Should we be comfortable with the idea that Christ took His Sacred, sinless Humanity from a person who carried the taint of original sin? Why is it impossible that God by grace preserved her sinless?

It is indisputable that there is a wonderful sanctification process taking place in the lives of some saints that extends beyond the spiritual and actually affects the physical. Not only are some bodies of saints preserved after death against the elements incorruptible, but they give off heavenly odors. This has been attested to time and again, and we also have photographs now of many of these miraculous phenemona. The Assumption dogma follows from a positive answer to the Immaculate Conception. Although the Scripture is almost silent, there is an ancient oral tradition in favor of the event. But in addition, why would a completely sinless person’s body be left to rot in the grave? Chronologically, the declaration in favor of Mary’s Assumption body and soul was inevitable after her holy and Immaculate Conception was understood.

I merely suggest that apart from the authority of the only Church to proclaim these teachings, the Marian dogmas are plausible on the slight evidence of Scripture alone. If Protestants are upset that we should think Mary assumed into heaven, I think we have a right to ask why they think her rotten bones, which gave the Son His body, was consumed by decay. The Scripture certainly doesn’t say that!

We also would ask who among us fulfills Mary’s declaration that “all generations shall call me blessed”? Of course, you can say that the Protestants who honor and accept her as the sinful woman from whom Christ took His sinless humanity, are those who are calling her blessed. That just doesn’t seem adequate to what Mary was saying. I think she has to mean that her memory and role in salvation history is going to be more prominent than what can be derived from the limitations and outright negative aspects of the usual Protestant position. Besides that, we even fulfill the prophecy literally! Catholics literally refer to her as Blessed Mother frequently.

I am just saying that the Catholic positions on the matters you raise, while not spelled out in Scripture are at least plausible on the basis of Scripture alone. We need the official Interpreter. But when one includes the teachings of the Roman church as suggested by St. Irenaeus to ratify what the Scriptures allow, they become acceptable on the authority of the Apostles in whose Church we are sure we reside.

With best wishes and blessings for you on your journey Paige, may you find all your satisfaction in the good God who alone can make us happy.

Rory

 

[tcm22]

Paige,

I’d like to reiterate what another posted mentioned earlier: If you are looking for explicit proof in Scripture for every aspect of the faith, you are going to be disappointed. That is a uniquely Protestant approach to God, and one that creates the fatal flaws in the myriad Protestant theologies.

I first read it on this forum, but it is probably the best perspective on how Catholics view things – Christ created a Church, not a Bible. It was several hundred years before there was a defined Canon, particularly with regards to the NT.

Having been raised in a Protestant home, this point took some getting used to, but once you grasp the essential concept that the Church is the Bride of Christ, it all fits into place.

Read the Acts of the Apostles and ponder several key points. Look at the explicit authority of the Apostles and understand how they spread the faith with NO reference to anything but oral testimony of the life, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus. That was the early Church, but that same dynamic exists today. The final completion of the Canon didn’t change the Apostolic authority of the Church or the promise of Divine guidance.

Scripture is an essential element in our salvation and is one of God’s most beautiful gifts. However if you want to understand Catholicism from the standpoint of faithful Catholics, you can’t do it using sola sciptura.

You’ve come to the right place if you want answers. I can’t measure the increase in my own knowledge since I joined here a few months ago.

 

[1catholic]

Hey-

Yeah you’ve got a lot going on here
I’ll start with the papal authority which i think stands by itself due to its minimal use. If the church was not being guided by the holy spirit why haven’t some of our corrupt popes changed doctrine? The reason i start with this is because of John Newman. He was an Anglican who through his research-writing trying to prove that his church had truth realized that the only church whose doctrine couldn’t change and hasn’t changed through history was the Catholic church. In someways, for me at least, this is stronger evidence than any miracles

Then to Mary. This year in my church history class (we had an awesome teacher) we discussed papal infallibility and came to the subject of mary. The immaculate conception was widely accepted by catholics before Pius IX spoke in ex cathedra on it. Church teachings, even the few coming in ex cathedra are based in both Tradition and scripture. I am sorry I can’t give a more thorough explanation on this except for the simple explanations that i’ve been told from time to time, like the woman to carry God had to be pure, and thus being without original sin, she’d better be able to avoid temptation… that what I’ve got there I suggest look to the catholic encyclopedia for clear explanations on all of these topics

On prayers, the more the merrier It is just like asking a friend pray for you, except this friend is already in heaven with God. As to asking Mary to pray for you, Mary is Jesus’ mom, Jesus will listen to her wishes (the water to wine story) She has asked us for our prayers so she can bring them to Christ

Confession is necessary before communion for mortal sins b/c you can’t receive communion with mortal sins on your heart. Confession, like communion, and all the other sacraments is a gift from God. We are human and God knows what is best for us. We need physical signs and physical participation to check ourselves, this is probably why God instituted the sacraments the way he did. Reconciliation ( “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained” (John 20:22-23)) with a priest gives not only the physical assurances of forgiveness but it also gives us a channel for advice and support. A good article on confession: zenit.org/article-15323?l=english

On believing everything…Yes and no. Some good advice i heard once was that as a catholic we are called to recognize the truth in the church. some concepts might be hard to grasp or we might not agree. Rather than turn away or bashing we should look into why the Church teaches what it does, b/c in doing so we will bring ourselves to the truth. Seek and you will find

These are pretty basic answers but I hope they help. If anything i says is unclear (or if someone reads this and sees a misunderstanding) please let me know, I too have room to grow

God bless and good luck

 

[mark_a]

This is what’s odd … I can honestly say that I agree with and can live with the teachings on abortion, contraception, and marriage. I believe that abortion is an absolute evil, and must be avoided at all costs. I believe that contraception is tantamount to abortion and causes us to deny what God may have planned for us, and the denial of God’s will should also be avoided at all costs. The Catholic rules on marriage are good, if sometimes a little strict, but Jesus holds marriage up as an example of God’s relationship with his people, and Christian marriage should reflect that. Therefore, I can live with what the Church teaches on marriage.

It sounds like you are more Catholic than most Catholics. The Catholic Church needs strong folks like you.

Don’t be discouraged by Catholic militants. Every church has them.

Best wishes to you on your faith journey.

 

[ferdie]

Welcome to the forum Paige2009! Don’t be discourage on how people answer your questions here. Most mean well, it’s just that each individual has a way of answering questions. So enjoy your stay.