Please help me with a Seven Day Adventist!!!

[Gratias_Grace]

As you know, Seven Day Adventists, want to break the catholic faith down to nothing.

One way of doing that is to try to get people of other christian churches to believe that catholisism is a pagan religion and that we (I am catholic) we have copied Babylonian pagan worship.

I will post a link, so you can look at their madnes yourself.

Usually I find a way to stop their attacks. But this time I am stuck to number eleven at the link. It is the letters IHS. I can’t remember the meaning of these letters. Can somebody help?

The link:

members.tripod.com/sword_of_the_spirit/id3.htm

God luck!

G.G.

 

[Richard_Lamb]

Latin for “Jesus Saviour of Man…”

 

[Sanctus]

From the catholic answers website:

The letters aren’t English at all, but Greek. In fact, they are the first three letters of Jesus’ name in Greek: iota-eta-sigma (capital eta in Greek looks like the English H). This has been a common abbreviation for Jesus throughout Church history.

Responding to the Chick Tracts–Eucharist

Hope that helps,

God Bless,

 

[Maggie]

Gratias Grace - SDA2RC is a recent convert to Catholicism from Adventism and has been extremely helpful regarding their beliefs related to the Church. You might wish to get his (name removed by moderator)ut as well. He’s getting confirmed tomorrow I think, you can find his thread under sacraments/confirmation.

 

[yochumjy]

Some interesting accusations, there…

This doesn’t help on your question, but have you seen the Beginning Appologetics books? They are pretty good for covering some of the basic questions accusations. They are at your local Catholic bookstore or at CA

shop.catholic.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/c-Apologetics_and_Evangelization.html?L+scstore+mszh1327ffbdbcbd+1126299104

Good, luck there is a lot to refute there. Darn good thing we have the Church Father’s and all their writings for most of the answers.

John

 

[Gratias_Grace]

no text

 

[Dave]

Can anyone verify the authenticity of the ‘Isis, Horus and Seb’ reference?

 

[Sanctus]

Verify? It is not true.

As shown on the link I posted above, that is a myth that is put out by several anti-catholics in an attempt to portray the faith as “pagan”.

I’m confused what you mean…I hope that was your question.

 

[SDA2RC]

Gratias Grace:

Usually I find a way to stop their attacks. But this time I am stuck to number eleven at the link. It is the letters IHS. I can’t remember the meaning of these letters. Can somebody help?

I would simply approach it with the following two arguments:

1st - In making such a strong accusation against other Christians or non-Christians, the Bible tells us we should take our complaint to the Church. Your statement is an accusation, for which you have provided no credible sources. To approach this with Biblical integrity, I would expect that you find a credible, (ie. verifieable standing in his field) either Babylonian anthropologist, or archeologist, to substantiate your statement, and then present his study or dissertation on this to the church. If you cannot do so, then I would, in the purisuit of Christians honesty, take down the statement until you can find such a knowledgeable source.

2nd - if you are able to find such a statement, I would expect you to show how the use of the same letters on a wafer as some supposedly did who lived some 2500 years ago detracts from our relationship with God. As you attempt to do this, please address also, why the following Pagan symbols/practices are used within the SDA Church and are not considered a detriment to the SDA’s relationship with God, yet these three letters are?

a. Steeple (well known phallic symbol)
b. Wedding Rings (pagan origin now used by SDA’s to symbolize Christian marriage.
c. Holy Book (pagans also had holy books of writings)
d. Dollar bills, which have the “all seeing eye”, SDA’s often collect money with this pagan symbol and then claim to sactify it with a blessing, to God.
e. baptism, practiced in ancient pagan cultures.
f. Prayer, practiced in acient pagan cultures.
g. symbols of the Cross, often recognized as a sign of Tammuz, who is suggested as being the child of the Sun God, Nimrod.
h. candle light services, often pagans did their ceremonies by firelight/candlelight.
I. Christmas Tree - many SDA Churches put up a tree at Christmas for the purpose of having children and families hang their offerings on.

If you do not claim that the following are an impediment to your serious devotion to God, then can it be intellectually honest that three letters are the same as the first letters of the Transliterated form of the names of three pagan Gods.

Would it not then also be fare to say that SDA stands for, “Satan Does All!” or that EGW stands for “Evil Gargoyles Win!”

LOL

Brandon

 

[thornbristle]

Whenever you are speaking to someone of a different faith, it helps if you already know something about their religious background, theology and history. Here are some websites to
bring you up to snuff:

sdaoutreach.org/

ellenwhite.org/

ex-sda.com/

home.global.co.za/~skorsman/sda/
(a Catholic website on the SDA church, very good)

catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0003chap.asp
The Pagan Influence Fallacy by Jimmy Akin

catholic.com/library/Is_Catholicism_Pagan.asp
Is Catholicism Pagan?

ralphwoodrow.org/books/babylon.htm
Ralph Woodrow offers his book, “The Babylon Connection?” refuting Alexander Hislop’s “The
Two Babylons.” The book is only $8.

Ralph Woodrow’s little book refutes in short order the lie by Alexander Hislop, and repeated by many since, that the Catholic Church is a pagan derivative from the Babylonish culture. Such well known and popular author’s, like Tim LaHaye, still adhere to this old saw.

May the Lord be with you as you attempt to talk sense into your Adventist friend!

–Thornbristle

 

[Gratias_Grace]

no text :yup: :clapping:

 

[Cephas]

just thought it would be interesrting:

SDA’s claim the Pope is the anit-christ because the Pope’s title Vicarius Filii Dei has the numerical value of 666 (using roman numerical system)

Vicarius Filii Dei is NOT an offical title for the Pope. So there goes that, but using the same method the name of the SDA foundress, Ellen Gould White does equal 666

Vicarius Filii Dei = Vicar of the Son of God

 

[phatcatholic]

i have likewise collected the following articles on the SDA’s which may be of some help:

Seventh-Day Adventism and Sabbatarianism
Comprehensive Arguments
–Adventists
–Sabbatarianism
–An Invitation to Sincere Adventists
–Seventh-Day Adventism
–Errors of Seventh-Day Adventism
–Seventh-Day Adventist Church: Who Are These People?
The Sabbath Day
–Why Christians Keep the Lord’s Day and Not the Jewish Sabbath
–Some Thoughts on the Lord’s Day
–Constantine, the Papacy, and the Real Origins of Sunday Worship
–The Sabbath and the 8th Day
–The Lord’s Day
–I’ll Follow the Son: The Lunacy of Seventh-Day Adventism
–note: also see the “Sunday Worship” section of the entryEucharist and the Sacrifice of the Mass
Refuting Soul Sleep
–The Bible Disproves Soul Sleep
–Examination of Conditional Immortality, “Soul Sleep” and “Annihilationism”
–The State of the Dead: Alive in Christ, or Dead and Forgotten?
–What the Hell?: The Biblical Doctrine of Everlasting Punishment for the Wicked
–A Dead Doctrine?
–Rethinking Life After Death
–The Nature of Man and Death
–Paul and the Afterlife in 2 Corinthians 5:1-9
–note: also see the “Heaven” and “Hell” sections of the entryLast Things
The Book of Daniel
–Is the Pope in Daniel’s Prophecies?
–The Three Horns of Daniel 7:8, 24
–and the 1260 Years: An Introduction to the Question**Daniel 7 **
–The Different Methods of Prophetic Interpretation
–Conflicting Interpretations of the 1260 Years of Daniel 7
–The Year 538 and Justinian’s Code: Why It Just Doesn’t Fit
–Did the 16th Century Jesuits Invent Futurism and Preterism?
–: ConclusionDaniel 7
Other Arguments
–SDA and the Doctrine of the Trinity
–Disproving Jewish Meat Restrictions for Gentiles and Christians
–Understanding Acts 15
–Christmas is Celebrated in Scripture, in Heaven, and on Earth
–Deliberate Distortions in SDA’s Clear Word Bible

 

[Story]

If only this message board was open a year ago…I wouldn’t have spent sooo much time arguing an SDA the hard way…LOL

Story

 

[SDA2RC]

Cephas:

just thought it would be interesrting:

SDA’s claim the Pope is the anit-christ because the Pope’s title Vicarius Filii Dei has the numerical value of 666 (using roman numerical system)

Vicarius Filii Dei is NOT an offical title for the Pope. So there goes that, but using the same method the name of the SDA foundress, Ellen Gould White does equal 666

Vicarius Filii Dei = Vicar of the Son of God

This was only ever a antecedotal point by SDA’s, the main reasons they believe the pope will be the Anti-Christ is their interpretation of Scripture, prophecy, and interesting history

Btw… the church has pretty much backed off the Vicarius Filii Dei title. Notice the quote below from the Adult SDA Sabbath School Quarterly, Q2, 2002, Study for June 6th. (emphasis added) (ssnet.org/qrtrly/eng/02b/less10.html)
**“**The number of the beast. The mark, the name, and the number of the beast are closely related (Rev. 13:17). Many suggestions have been made to explain the meaning of 666. Here we must be very careful. The Bible does not say that the number is the added numerical value of the letters of a name. Some see in the meaning of 666 a symbol of humanity separated from God. Humans were created on the sixth day, and the number can stand as a symbol for humanity without divine rest (the seventh day). Humans have claimed ultimate independence from God (the cause of their fall), and even now they do not want to find rest in Christ.

Over the years, numerous Bible students have come up with various explanations for the 666. Some found significance in the fact that if you added up the number of letters in the name of a former president of the United States, Ronald Wilson Reagan, it came to 666; others saw meaning in that, years ago, all the buses in Jerusalem had 666 on their license plates. This is futile speculation that adds nothing toward understanding truth. The important point is that God’s Word has given us enough information to know what the key issues are and who the players will be in the last days, even if we do not know all the details for now, such as the precise meaning of 666.** “**

Then again on Friday June7th, the quarterly reads:

**“**1. Vicarius Filii Dei (Vicar of the Son of God). Since the Reformation, this papal title has been used to calculate the number 666. But there are several questions that should make us cautious. First, it is not clear that this title is an official one. Second, there is no clear indication in Revelation 13 that the number is based on the numerical value of the letters of a name. The phrase “it is the number of a man” (vs. 18, NIV) could be translated “it is the number of [humanity]”; that is, of humans separated from God. Third, those who insist in counting the numerical value of letters confront the problem of deciding which language will be used. Because the text does not identify any language, the selection of a particular one will be somewhat arbitrary. At the present time, the symbolism of intensified rebellion, six used three times, and total independence from God seem to be the best option. Time will reveal the full meaning of the symbol.”

As you can see, the leadership is backtracking on its previous 666/Papal title claims. Which in my mind is good. The sad part is that many SDA’s dont seem to have read this back in 2002. LOL

Brandon

 

[SDA2RC]

Great links!!

Brandon

 

[AmandaPS]

Isn’t the Pope’s title Vicarius Christi and not Vicarius Filii Dei, making the numbers game a moot point anyways?

 

[SDA2RC]

AmandaPS:

Isn’t the Pope’s title Vicarius Christi and not Vicarius Filii Dei, making the numbers game a moot point anyways?

Amanda, yes… the problem is that early last century, a Catholic publication printed that Vicarius Filii Dei was a title of the Pope. Therefore, although they printed a retraction (if I remember correctly), non-catholics have been pointing to this as Catholic proof that His title is Vicarius Filii Dei.

In reality it is not!! So the job is to show/convince those who think it is his title that it is not…

Brandon

 

[AmandaPS]

I guess that’s a part of the larger problem in apologetics is; how to defend against a mistaken assumption, dishonesty, lie, falsehood, etc., when it’s so firmly entrenched in people’s hearts and minds that they have a hard time letting go of it.

 

[JoaoMachado]

Actually “Pope’s title Vicarius Christi and not Vicarius Filii Dei,” are not a title of the Pope. Vicarius Filli Dei (Translated, Vicar of Gods Son) and Vicarius Christ (Vicar Of Christ).

I posted this on another site, use it with care,

V… 5
I… 1
C… 100
A… 0
R… 0
I… 1
U… 5
S… 0

TOTAL = 112

F…0

I…1

L…50

I…1

I…1

TOTAL = 53

D…500

E…0

I…1

TOTAL = 501

GRAND TOTAL = 112 + 53 + 501 = 666

Wow amazing stuff huh? But there is a problem with this statement. “VICAR OF THE SON OF GOD” is a correct statement, the Pope is the "Vicar of Christ on Earth, that is not his name or title though. Example, you could say that, one who plows the field, that is a correct statement, but it is not the title of a “Farmer”. And which Pope are they referring to? We have had a few and Revelation says,
13:18 DRB(18) Here is wisdom. He that hath understanding, let him count the number of the beast. For it is the number of a man: and the number of him is six hundred sixty-six.

Maybe they are referring to their Pope:

E = 0
L = 50
L = 50
E = 0
N = 0

TOTAL =100

G = 0
O = 0
U = V = 5
L = 50
D = 500

TOTAL= 555

W = VV = 5 + 5 = 10 ( A w is two "v"s together
H = 0
I = 1
T = 0
E = 0

100 + 555 + 11 = 666

And that really is her name! Do I think she is the Anti-Christ, no, in fact it is the standard thinking that Nero was the Anti-Christ.

Joao