Please help me with something

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stayfa1thful said:
Tee

I understand what you are saying about having the right to administer the sacraments.

Your line says

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord

I guess what has bothered me is that people who have no clue what my relationship with God is, is who deems me worth or unworthy. I mean I do get it, I really do. However, it still feels like man is the one who figures out whether I am worthy. If I am unworthy and I take it, then thats something I will have to account for when my time comes. Either way, Im going to wait until I take the classes, but it still doesnt stop the fact that I yearn to be able to take part in it 😛

The “rules” i spoke of is no confession or Eucharist without classes.
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It seems to me that you are not clear on what the Church is. Why are saying that “man is the one who figures out whether I am worthy”? The Church is a divine institution, not manmade. It was commissioned by Christ. Her ordained ministers were given authority by Him to speak for Him until He returns.
 
stayfa1thful said:
KayCee

Its not that I believe it is a man made institution, **but many things have changed over the past few thousand years **and the original teachings have not. As our understanding of the teachings became better translations, it leaves the room for human error. That human error is what I was wondering about, not the Church itself.
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Could you please provide some examples of the bolded above so I would have a better idea what you’re talking about? Thanks!

As for “human error” Jesus did promise us the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church.
I do appreciate the replies 🙂
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You’re quite welcome, and I hope you’re finding the discussion helpful.
 
Hi staying faithful-

I hope this helps you… with some scripture “back up.”

“Simon Peter replied, ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’ And Jesus answered him, ‘Blessed are you Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven.’” - Matthew 16:16-19

Translation- Jesus built his Church (Catholic Church), upon this “rock” (Peter- the first Pope), and the gates of Hell will not prevail (nobody, not man, not the devil, is going to take down the Church Christ has built). One could argue that some "Judas’’ can slip through, but they aren’t going to take down the Church.

Jesus handed Peter the “keys to the kingdom of Heaven.” Now I’m quoting this footnote from my RSV bible, but this is the explanation of Mat 16:19:
“the kingdom of heaven: Peter has the key to the gates of the city of God. This power is exercised through the church. ‘Binding’ and ‘loosing’ are rabbinic terms referring to excommunication, then later to forbidding or allowing something. Not only can Peter admit to the kingdom; he also has power to make authoritative decisions in matter of faith or morals.”

I hope that helps. Nothing wrong with questioning your faith, it helps you learn and (at least for me), helps me recognize that much further that the Catholic Church is the one true church.
 
Of course you know that the Church or any organization for that matter can not let an individual make up his own rules for himself. If that was the case then that organization or Church would have chaos in that the members would be running the place. Everyone would do as he or she pleases. I hope you can understand that.

In the case of the Catholic Church, consider her to be “Christ on Earth”. To the Catholic Church has been given the keys of authority and the guaranteed guidance of the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ Himself. Men must run the Church because that is what Jesus wanted. They, the Church, are guided by the Holy Spirit.

Everyone in any organization must comply with the requirements of that organization for new members. Want to be a fighter pilot? Then you must complete college and Officers School and Flight training. Doctor? Six years of college and then Internship. Marines? Must take a battery of physical and mental tests and complete the training necessary.
Get the picture? These requirements are for your benefit, not to your detriment. Everyone had to go through the course to become a Catholic and so must you. Grin and bear it.
 
stayfa1thful said:
First of all, I am not turning away from the Catholic faith, its where I want to be but, I have had strange questions coming into my head. I have tried to ask on the submit a question forums, but both attempts have not been answered. I am aware they are extremely busy. I have talked to friends, but still, no answers.

What about the Catholic Church? We have the Catechism, which is laws written by us, not Him. Why does our faith have so many “man made” rules. A good example is in the Bible, it states we are to eat his body and drink his blood. However, the Catholic Church teaches us we CANT have it unless we take THEIR class. Do you see where I am going with this? Who is a Church, to decide whether or not we are allowed to receive the body of Christ? They teach how important confession is, however I am not allowed to do it, because of their rules.

Here is the thing that got to me this morning

675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the ‘mystery of iniquity’ in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.

That was taken from another post and once again, it glared in my head that we are glorifying God THROUGH the Catholic Church, but the Church dictates how we are “supposed to do things” The whole “glorifies himself in place of God”

More than anything, I want everyone to tell me how stupid and uneducated I am for thinking this and just say “well its right here, it says” I would like to be put in my place so that I can be at peace because from the beginning, I felt God through the Catholic Church more than anything, ever before. However, he reaches people in many denominations. I do NOT want to change, and I will NOT change. However, so many questions that just leave me confused and confusion is one of the devils tools. Can anyone help clear this up for me?

Thank you
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The Church, as the Body of Christ, is Christ’s presence on Earth. Because of this, we should listen to the Church as we would listen to Christ: “He who hears you hears me,” “The Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth” (1 Timothy 3:15), “Whatever you bind on Earth will be be bound in Heaven” (Matt. 18:18), “I will give you the keys of the kingdom” (Matt 16:19).

We should have a deep trust that the Holy Spirit is guiding the Church to act as the universal sacrament of salvation, sanctifying and teaching her members.
 
stayfa1thful,

The Church has always understood that those who receive should believe and accept what the church proposes for their belief. Obviously, one needs to have at least a rudimentary understanding of the faith - hence, a certain amount of instruction is needed. Note that Justin Martyr teaches in his Apology back in the year 150A.D. that “no one may share it [the Eucharist] unless he believes that our teaching is true, and has been cleansed in the bath of forgiveness for sin and of rebirth, and lives as Christ taught.” How can one believe in the church’s teachings if he doesn’t know what the church teaches?

In Christ,
Irenaeus
 
Kay_Cee said:
Could you please provide some examples of the bolded above so I would have a better idea what you’re talking about? Thanks!

As for “human error” Jesus did promise us the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church.

You’re quite welcome, and I hope you’re finding the discussion helpful.
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When I say many things have changed, I meant how we have interpreted things. Although I do say that, I cannot provide examples because I have not researched enough and honestly, I am not looking to find anything. Although honestly, I really dont want to. This was the first big thing that actually bugged me. The quote above helped a lot knowing that nothing can bring the Church down helps a lot.

The discussion helps a lot, I am getting what I need out of it which will hopefully push this thought out of my head for good 😃
 
davidv said:
It seems to me that you are not clear on what the Church is. Why are saying that “man is the one who figures out whether I am worthy”? The Church is a divine institution, not manmade. It was commissioned by Christ. Her ordained ministers were given authority by Him to speak for Him until He returns.
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Its not the Church itself that I thought was manmade. Its the inability to receive the sacraments until I completed classes. Nowhere has anyone been able to quote that I could not receive them until I took special classes. When I say that “man is the one who figures out whether Im worthy”, it was the inability to receive the sacraments.

Him giving authority by Him to speak for Him, I truly get that but the issue was that there have been people in the past, priests, that have not done “his work” and have done sins themselves. Therein lied my problem. If a priest can do _______, then is it not possible that a Bishop could, or a Cardinal? I do NOT know any examples but hopefully you have a better understanding of what I was thinking when I made the post.

Although Christ built this Church, it is still men that ultimately still make decisions and as we all know, no man is free of sin.

Also, I will not pretend like I know a lot because my knowledge is very limited, hence this thread 😛
 
storywriter, ricko, and catholic1seeks, thank you for the scripture and replies. It helps a lot, I cant say much except thanks 🙂
 
irenaeus1 said:
stayfa1thful,

The Church has always understood that those who receive should believe and accept what the church proposes for their belief. Obviously, one needs to have at least a rudimentary understanding of the faith - hence, a certain amount of instruction is needed. Note that Justin Martyr teaches in his Apology back in the year 150A.D. that “no one may share it [the Eucharist] unless he believes that our teaching is true, and has been cleansed in the bath of forgiveness for sin and of rebirth, and lives as Christ taught.” How can one believe in the church’s teachings if he doesn’t know what the church teaches?

In Christ,
Irenaeus
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Very good point. I have tried to ask a few people that i actually knew but their knowledge was not as strong as it is here in these forums. I was needing something so I could get this out of my head, and the posters here have provided what I feel I needed.
 
I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for the help with this.

The amount of dedication I have given “making my life right” has been immense. I have given it 150 percent. Its clear that my next step is to study more and learn more about our faith.

Thank you so much everyone for your replies and helping set my mind at ease

Ill make sure to include all of you in my prayers tonight

Although not by name!!! 😃

Thanks everyone
 
stayfa1thful said:
IAlthough Christ built this Church, it is still men that ultimately still make decisions and as we all know, no man is free of sin.
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No one claims that the pope and bishops are without sin :p. Sin has nothing to do with the decisions that the pope and bishops make, for we maintain that the Holy Spirit *through the bishops *runs the Church. Jesus promised that the Spirit of Truth would guide the apostles and Church into the truth. When Jesus made Peter the earthly shepherd of His Flock, Jesus promised that the “gates of hades” would not prevail against the Church (Matthew 16:18-19).

The bishops are authority only because Christ is the ultimate authority, for Christ founded the Church on the foundations of the Apostles. The apostles were given the power to bind and loose (Matt 18:18), and the successors of the apostles, the bishops, have this power.
 
Prodigal_Son said:
I agree that the institutional status of the Church can lead to misunderstanding and error. This is especially true in America right now, where I do believe we have a crisis of unfaithfulness within the Church. In that respect, I want to honor you for your desire to be faithful, despite obstacles.👍

I don’t have time for a fuller answer right now – my apologies. As far as communion goes, there are some experts on this forum who I hope will know the answer to your question far better than I will. As with any obstacle, or “red tape”, don’t let it get in your way. Share openly and honestly with the leaders at your church that you don’t understand the rationale, and I imagine they will be understanding.
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Alot of questions can be answered on a website I found to be very effective and helpful and that is a website is bible christian society click on free downloads there is one called eucharist and marriage the two shall become one flesh that may help with any questions you may have I strongly reccomend this to you or anybody for that matter the host is John Martignoni Goodluck and God Bless:thumbsup:
 
The_Defender said:
Alot of questions can be answered on a website I found to be very effective and helpful and that is a website is bible christian society click on free downloads there is one called eucharist and marriage the two shall become one flesh that may help with any questions you may have I strongly reccomend this to you or anybody for that matter the host is John Martignoni Goodluck and God Bless:thumbsup:
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stayfa1thful said:
storywriter, ricko, and catholic1seeks, thank you for the scripture and replies. It helps a lot, I cant say much except thanks 🙂
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No problem. 🙂 It’s always nice to see some scripture back up! I understand!! 🙂

I’m glad this thread is helping you. Like I said, nothing wrong with questioning things. I’ve done it myself.
 
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