Please help me with these stumbling blocks

[zab]

You make my point very clear here. The fact that you are noticing what others are giving causes unnecessary anxiety for some people.

I have a family of four. I make $1,300/month. I don’t have a lot of money, and currently I am in college obtaining a BA.

I have two options, drop a meager amount into the plate, or donate later, in which case it appears to those around that I donated nothing.

I don’t like being put into a situation where I am required to feel inadequate because of my current financial situation.

Anything that doesn’t require people to be put on the spot and made to feel inferior to others. I suggest removing donations from Mass and providing convenient ways to donate, such as: Donation boxes, mailing address for donations, etc.

There was a time when it seemed that we could not afford to give the $5 a month that we put in the collection. I would recommend giving the widow’s mite now rather than donate later. We have never regretting tithing in good times or in bad, God has always provided for us.

 

[Highwayhound]

Cory,

Luke 21 came to mind as I read this thread:

When he looked up he saw some wealthy people putting their offerings into the treasury and he noticed a poor widow putting in two small coins.

He said, “I tell you truly, this poor widow put in more than all the rest; for those others have all made offerings from their surplus wealth, but she, from her poverty, has offered her whole livelihood.”

Let not your heart be troubled over donations into the basket.

The “suggested donation” vs. “non-refundable fee” in the next sentence would bother me too. It is logically inconsistent.

The signed bulletin does seem odd. I have never ever heard of such a thing. I grew up in a small parish wear it is obvious that people are either attending or not. Is it a big parish thing? Possibly it could be a Las Vegas thing. I worked there twice as a young man, but only could take the highly suspicious nature of Las Vegas people for about a year and had to move each time.

You live in Las Vegas. What part of the city? My aunt lives in NW Las Vegas and is a long time RCIA sponsor at her parish. I am not sure if she could be of help, but I would gladly put you in touch if it would help.

A few side notes for everyone. There is a Catholic Church located along the famous Las Vegas Strip. It is Guardian Angel Cathedral, and when the collection basket goes around they gladly accepts casino chips as well as cash and checks

May God bless you and keep you

 

[Phemie]

This same logic would also authorize the Church to charge a “suggested donation” at the door before entering Mass.

Would you think it proper to sell tickets for the Eucharist? (which is a Sacrament same as Baptism)

I grew up next to a parish that sold advance tickets to the Midnight Mass. No ticket, no entry.

 

[Phemie]

Because they aren’t as efficient at raising money for the Church. A donation box can be easily overlooked, or robbed.

Mailouts cost money. And I don’t know anyone who voluntarily mails money to a post office box, “just because.” Passing the basket costs nothing, it’s secure, and gets people’s attention. It’s the most efficient means to raise money.

Some parishes in my Diocese have gone the “automatic deposit” route with parishioners signing up to have money automatically deducted from their bank account each month and paid to the parish in the same way that their utility bills are paid.

 

[Phemie]

Passing the plate - you mmay have issues with this, which I pray you can reconcile, but from the few masses Ive attended so far, when the plate is passed around, no one takes a blind bit of notice what anyone else is doing or donating.

I don’t think you’re right in this. Those who take up the collection can usually tell you who didn’t drop anything in. In fact, some people are so concerned about this that one couple in my parish asked for a second box of envelopes such is their need to be seen putting something in the collection plate when they come to church twice on the same Sunday.

 

[Phemie]

The school is having something to do with that particular parish - apparently they have some sort of mutual agreement going on, probably with regard to religious education at the school. This is fairly common.

At the parish where I work, we have three affiliated schools, who provide a daily Religion class, and we have various events for the kids at our parish church. (In our case, the schools are free, and anybody can attend them; there is no requirement to attend Mass, but the Catholic students who attend those schools have a Religion class that they can take, there - and in Religion class they are encouraged to make a weekly habit of attending Mass. The schools are funded by school taxes that are assessed by the City.)

This is the individual parish entering into an agreement with an individual school. It has nothing to do with Rome. Rome doesn’t say anything about where you should send your kids for school. Rome says that you are the primary educator of your child, and that these decisions are yours to make.

Wait a minute, you are comparing apples and turnips here. You can’t compare what happens in Canada with what happens in the US. In Canada, Catholic schooling is provided by the ‘state’, so to speak. In the US parochial schools are built and paid for by parishioners and run by the Church and parents pay tuition for their kids to attend. How would you like to dish out 6-10K a year to send your kid to school?

 

[jmcrae]

Some parishes in my Diocese have gone the “automatic deposit” route with parishioners signing up to have money automatically deducted from their bank account each month and paid to the parish in the same way that their utility bills are paid.

That, too, is very secure and reliable, because once you’ve signed up for it, you wouldn’t bother to try to get off the list unless you had a really serious reason to.

 

[quiet52]

Cory G,
Do you have a child attending this parish-affiliated school?

 

[Aramis]

I grew up next to a parish that sold advance tickets to the Midnight Mass. No ticket, no entry.

Selling the tickets is the abuse. Use of tickets for entry isn’t in itself the abuse.

 

[Phemie]

Selling the tickets is the abuse. Use of tickets for entry isn’t in itself the abuse.

I remember that they sold them for a few years. It ensured that only those with big families AND money got to attend that Mass. They did away with the system after a few years. Unfortunately, in my experience, tickets would no longer be needed since, nowadays, more people attend the ‘Children’s Mass’ early in the evening than ever attend Midnight Mass.

 

[jmcrae]

Wait a minute, you are comparing apples and turnips here. You can’t compare what happens in Canada with what happens in the US. In Canada, Catholic schooling is provided by the ‘state’, so to speak. In the US parochial schools are built and paid for by parishioners and run by the Church and parents pay tuition for their kids to attend. How would you like to dish out 6-10K a year to send your kid to school?

I just wouldn’t do it. If I were living in the States, my kids would be going to public school, and we’d do a home curriculum or a parish based CCD program for their Religion requirements. There’s absolutely no way I’d ever pay that much for one kid to go to elementary school. I didn’t even pay that for University - my University education was about $3K per year, plus books.

 

[Phemie]

I just wouldn’t do it. If I were living in the States, my kids would be going to public school, and we’d do a home curriculum or a parish based CCD program for their Religion requirements. There’s absolutely no way I’d ever pay that much for one kid to go to elementary school. I didn’t even pay that for University - my University education was about $3K per year, plus books.

By Canada, I meant most provinces, because there are provinces (Newfoundland and Labrador being one) where the only option for Catholic schooling is a private school. There are only 3 for the province so parishes are scrambling to fill the void left by the elimination of gov’t provided Catholic education.

 

[Ag_not]

I don’t think you’re right in this. Those who take up the collection can usually tell you who didn’t drop anything in. In fact, some people are so concerned about this that one couple in my parish asked for a second box of envelopes such is their need to be seen putting something in the collection plate when they come to church twice on the same Sunday.

They must have awesome eyesight The guys that passed the collection pocket around start at the edge of one pew, then walk back the pews until theres a gap where passing the pocket would be difficult for someone seated. They wait at that point until the collection pocket reaches them, having being passed along by the congregaiton pew by pew, they pass it on, then walk back a few more pews to where theres another gap. Not a chance they can see anything thats going on never mind what people are putting in.

The pocket is tight at the top, so with a dime or 50 bucks or an envelope folded in your hands, if you insert your hand and drop, noone has no clue what you just put in there, even if they are right beside you.

 

[jmcrae]

They must have awesome eyesight The guys that passed the collection pocket around start at the edge of one pew, then walk back the pews until theres a gap where passing the pocket would be difficult for someone seated. They wait at that point until the collection pocket reaches them, having being passed along by the congregaiton pew by pew, they pass it on, then walk back a few more pews to where theres another gap. Not a chance they can see anything thats going on never mind what people are putting in.

The pocket is tight at the top, so with a dime or 50 bucks or an envelope folded in your hands, if you insert your hand and drop, noone has no clue what you just put in there, even if they are right beside you.

Good point. I’ve done ushering a couple of times, and although I react appropriately when people wave me off to signify they have nothing to give, it’s not like I’m keeping a tally, or have any memory of who they were after Mass. I’m usually more focused on the person who just woke up to the fact that it’s collection time, and is frantically digging through every pocket to see what they did with their collection money, and then they finally find it and put it in the basket.

 

[Phemie]

I sat at the Finance Council meeting last night and one member offered to tell us who put what in the collection basket. He even mentioned knowing people earning at least 70K and dropping in a $2 coin.

In our parish there aren’t that many people and the basket is of this type, (last 2) so it’s easy to see what everyone puts in if they don’t use an envelope.

 

[jmcrae]

I sat at the Finance Council meeting last night and one member offered to tell us who put what in the collection basket. He even mentioned knowing people earning at least 70K and dropping in a $2 coin.

How does he know that the guy doesn’t mail in a cheque to the office once a month for $584.00?

 

[Phemie]

How does he know that the guy doesn’t mail in a cheque to the office once a month for $584.00?

I think he can be relatively certain, based on our total collection for any given week, that nobody puts anywhere near $100 in the collection on any given week.

We barely average $10/registered family/month.

 

[daeve]

Some parishes in my Diocese have gone the “automatic deposit” route with parishioners signing up to have money automatically deducted from their bank account each month and paid to the parish in the same way that their utility bills are paid.

Both the parishes I frequent do that. I’m a member of one, and cantor at another. At the one where I cantor, I ask someone sitting near me to put my envelope in the basket. It’s a plain white envelope and I put a check in it. Nobody should notice what anyone else is donating. There are weeks I forget, and sometimes weeks when I don’t have the money to put in anything. I make it up when I can.

The signed bulletin made me think of grade school. The children from the school were supposed to attend the 10:30 Mass. My mother was a little disorganized and just couldn’t get it together for that. We usually went at noon. I had a teacher who gave a test on the homily every Monday, and woe to the girl who didn’t attend the right Mass. Mom was also a rabble rouser of sorts, and went marching down the hill to tell the principal what she thought about that. My parents had to put money in the basket every week if we wanted to go to the school. If you didn’t do that, there was tuition. The schools were very crowded in the mid 50s and early 60s, and they needed the money to operate the school.

I taught RCIA for kids when I lived in Brooklyn. One boy in my First Communion class was the son of another teacher. When we went to church to practice for Reconciliation, he asked what those things were, pointing to the kneelers. He’d never been to Mass in his life. I could never understand why parents would want their kid to make his First Communion if they weren’t going to be practicing Catholics. What was the point? Baptizing a kid, making First Communion and being Confirmed…this puts a responsibility on the kid to do the things required of Catholics. If the parents aren’t going to do that, then we shouldn’t be inducting them into the Faith they’re going to ignore. We take those things seriously and shouldn’t waste them on people who don’t.

Inducting may have been a poor choice of words, but I can’t think of a better one.

 

[jmcrae]

Inducting may have been a poor choice of words, but I can’t think of a better one.

Actually, it’s not bad. The Church uses the word “Initiation,” which is pretty close to the same idea.