PLEASE HELP! Parish is near forcing us to donate! What to do?

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I agree that a person [family] needs to consider their resources and give from their hearts to their parish…I know that “Tithing” is “not what we are called to do…Tithing is sooooo OT!”

And I do not doubt that parishes use a variety of messages to attempt to get parishioners to prayerfully offer financial suppport, including pledge campaigns, graphs that illustrate hourly, monthly and yearly incomes and percentages of same…there might even be a per family suggested weekly or monthly contribution amount derived by dividing the number of registered families and the annual operating expenses…

Afterall, parishes have to have capital to operate…Your parish must pay the salaries of staff plus benefits [insurance, social security, worker compensation and retirement], utility costs [phones, electricity, gas, water and sewer], facility maintenance, consumable supplies [paper, toilet paper, paper towels, pens, pencils, religious educational aids and books, candles, hosts, wine, vestments, flowers, coffee, donuts, cookies, etc].

These costs are incurred whether you personally attend every sunday or once a month…whether you are on vacation or at home…like your rent and utilities the costs do not go on vacation…

You are fearful that the church will ‘withhold’ baptism…do you fear thet the parish will disappear because it becomes economically unviable? Can the parish remain open if the only support it receives is ‘prayerful’ support?

What I doubt is that the parish instructed the OP to donate X amount, singling them out…

$520 per year equates to a $10 per week contribution and that is approxiamately 3.125% of an $8.00 per hour salary…

$2000 per year equals 12% of that same $8.00 per hour salary… slightly over $38 per week

Few parishes in America average $10 per week per household in contributions…

What is the monthly operating costs for your parish? and who is responsible for this support? …

If not you … who?
 
So, considering your personal monthly budgets…

Is spending time in Communion with Jesus and your parish family a consideration in that calculation?

How do you factor in that Communion…?

We come together as a family of Jesus each Sunday at Mass to eat the Bread from Heaven…
the very Body and Blood of Jesus…!!!

We come together to welcome new Christians into the family via Baptisms, First Communions and Confirmations…family celebrations…We come together to reconcile our differences and celebrate the remission of sins and to strengthen each other in living the lives God intends via Reconcilliation…We celebrate vocations the Married state and the Religious…

One large Starbucks coffee per week equals nearly $200 a year…

One family pizza with sodas a week [lg pizza and 4 drinks- mom, dad, and two kids] equals nearly $1040 per year [can be slightly more or less depending on the pizza parler- $20 per week]

Cable TV, video rentals, internet access cell phones, I-Pods, video games…

What is the Sunday Mass worth to you…?

Yes, I know you can say that it is PRICELESS so no dollar value matters…True…

However, the parish does not operate on zero dollar amounts…what is our response…our obligation?

What message do we give our children, when we complain about the parish seeking necessary funding to porvide a service we show up for [at least I hope we are showing up for Mass, Sacraments and Catechesis!] …“All they care about is the money”…and yet we identify a shortage of priests as a crisis …who would want to be a priest…where the parishioners do not provide financial support, complain about appeals for support and then accuse the clergy of selling sacraments…?

We tell our children that faith is important, God is important - attending church is important with our voices…

Then we show them that every thing else is really more important by our actions [the church is the last thing we give our financial support, it is okay to miss church because some other activity: i.e. soccer game - even vacations - take precedence]?
 
I don’t mind giving to the church and fulfilling one of the six precepts of the church. Not at all. I do mind the shakedown techniques, which seem to be a bit blunt and presumptuous. It’s one thing to state 'Please prayerfully consider what you can give in light of God’s goodness to you."

It’s another thing to give you a number and tell you this is what they think you should be giving. That is tacky and intrusive.
 
Liberanosamalo said:
I don’t mind giving to the church and fulfilling one of the six precepts of the church. Not at all. I do mind the shakedown techniques, which seem to be a bit blunt and presumptuous. It’s one thing to state 'Please prayerfully consider what you can give in light of God’s goodness to you."

It’s another thing to give you a number and tell you this is what they think you should be giving. That is tacky and intrusive.
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So it is tacky to inform the parishioners that the annual cost of keeping the parish doors open is $xxxxxxx.xx and there are 400 registered families which equates to $xxxx.xx per household per year…? Tacky?

Does your landlord or mortgage lender just ask you to prayerfully consider your monthly housing contribution? Or do they provide you with an explanation of the costs?

Do you just give your wife an amount of money for the monthly food budget that you “prayerfully” discerned or is the monthly food budget based upon the costs of buying groceries and the number of persons who present themselves at the table for dinner?

Do you expect each member of your household to contribute to the whole of the family’s well being…each accepting responisbility - financial and work wise? As in if you work your spouse does the cooking and shopping, each picks up after themselves, someone pays the bills, does laundry, bathes the kids…etc…or do you wait until some one prayerfully sees the need to take a task?

Thats the reason parishes need to seek financial support…or end up closing…the financial planning is not based upon reality…facts…

Like the OP, every parishioner can say…we are living pay check to pay check, I want the box that says “prayer support”…

We live pay check to pay check…but I budget the parish and othr charitable support…I am a part of the parish…I flush the toilets and expect the lights to be on …I also expect the parish pay the staff - secretary, priest, janitors, teachers, etc…
 
How do you 'prayerfully" decide what level of support you will provide your parish?

Is it just the amount you “think” they need?

Do you give form your left overs or your need?

Do you only need to give when you ‘decide’ to attend, not if you are traveling out of town for work or pleasure?
 
My first question is what specifically is this campaign? Is it to foster awareness of stewardship, to make the parishioners more aware of the financial situation of the parish, or is it a special fundraising campaign with a specific purpose like a new building or needed repairs? In my mind, this would determine my response. Stewardship is important and gentle reminders can be helpful to get us back on track. Support of our parishes is also important and many people do not understand the economic impact on parishes.

Another reason I ask, is that whoever is conducting your campaign sounds like they read from the same book as our pastor! It sounds like the same process: Glossy brochures, banners, a committee, mandatory pledges, phone calls, and reminders in the bulletin that everyone is callled to “sacrifice”. He is running a campaign to build a new church - to the tune of $12 million dollars! The diocese requires 50% upfront in cash ($6 million) in order for construction to begin and the diocese will loan us the remainder.

For a number of reasons, we cannot support this capital campaign. In good conscience, I cannot see using $6 million to build a new church which we really do not need. I believe this money could be used better elsewhere - missions, schools, etc. Also, our personal financial situation cannot be squeezed any further. We already squeeze $11,000 per year to send our children to Catholic schools. At the end of Mass last Sunday, our pastor reminded everyone that if they do not send in a pledge card, they will receive a phone call. My husband and I intend to write a letter explaining the various reason we will not make a pledge. And not feel the least bit guilty.
 
Liberanosamalo said:
It’s another thing to give you a number and tell you this is what they think you should be giving. That is tacky and intrusive.
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I think it depends on how it’s worded. I’ve seen it done as a suggestion and I was not offended by it. —KCT
 
MCL said:
My first question is what specifically is this campaign? Is it to foster awareness of stewardship, to make the parishioners more aware of the financial situation of the parish, or is it a special fundraising campaign with a specific purpose like a new building or needed repairs? In my mind, this would determine my response. Stewardship is important and gentle reminders can be helpful to get us back on track. Support of our parishes is also important and many people do not understand the economic impact on parishes.

Another reason I ask, is that whoever is conducting your campaign sounds like they read from the same book as our pastor! It sounds like the same process: Glossy brochures, banners, a committee, mandatory pledges, phone calls, and reminders in the bulletin that everyone is callled to “sacrifice”. He is running a campaign to build a new church - to the tune of $12 million dollars! The diocese requires 50% upfront in cash ($6 million) in order for construction to begin and the diocese will loan us the remainder.

For a number of reasons, we cannot support this capital campaign. In good conscience, I cannot see using $6 million to build a new church which we really do not need. I believe this money could be used better elsewhere - missions, schools, etc. Also, our personal financial situation cannot be squeezed any further. We already squeeze $11,000 per year to send our children to Catholic schools. At the end of Mass last Sunday, our pastor reminded everyone that if they do not send in a pledge card, they will receive a phone call. My husband and I intend to write a letter explaining the various reason we will not make a pledge. And not feel the least bit guilty.
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capital campaigns are a different matter than the regular parish support…I agree but they are both a reality of parish life…

As to the followups are really good business practices…if you turn in a response whether it is a zero support or X amount…the parish knows that you were contacted and that you responded…no need for a follow-up call…if they do not hear from you, was your response lost in the mail, were you not notified at all [is your mailing address in need of updating etc]. If you failed to cash your paycheck - would you want your employer to verify that you had received it? If the power company notifies you of your bill and you do not pay it…did you not receive the bill, was it stolen, lost?

I find that people expect their parishes to operate in a vacuum or in a manner that they would find 100% un-acceptable by any other organization…

And your parish finance council, pastoral council, who represent you must see a need to build a new facility? few people would undertake such a “thankless” project on a whim…Are there maintenace issues, siesmic or other safety concerns [asbestos, ADA accessability issues? for example]…

Not everyone is expected to give in equal amounts but acording to their means…
 
OK, first take a deep breath.

First, remember that you are being asked to **consider **a pledge. No one is **required **to make a pledge.

We are currently doing a capital campaign in our parish, and I am the chairman of the campaign. Each pledge card has a suggested amount. If there isn’t one, people tend to underestimate the amount they need to give to reach the goals. And, we are asking people to consider stretching beyond what they’ve given in the past. However, our suggested amount is just that-- a suggestion.

Our suggested amount is based on past giving, not income. BUT, if yours is based on income, well-- your income is $0 so it shouldn’t be hard to figure out your donation!

And, yes, I am responsible for collecting EVERY campaign card and turning it in to the diocese. And, yes, I will be following up on every person who doesn’t fill in a pledge card. BUT, anyone who writes $0 for their pledge is fine with me-- I just need to know they’ve made their decision and turned in their card. Whether or not they could have, or should have, given is not my business-- it’s between them and God.

Everyone’s circumstances are different. Some people will be able to give a lot, and others nothing at all.

The Church is asking, not requiring. If you support your parish to the best of your ability-- through time, talent, and treasure-- you have nothing to be concerned about.

If you feel strongly that you need to inform your pastor of your situation-- mixed marriage and you have no income of your own-- then by all means tell him.

No, you and your children will NOT be denied the Sacraments.
 
“According to their means” is an important note of grace.

I have seen the campaigns where we were handed a pledge card, given a homily by a priest who owns a racecar about our repsonsibility, then given time to fill out the pledge card. The pledge card contained a little chart that said, “If you make $XXX monthly” and a second column, “The you should give $XX monthly”.

In our case, we run our own business. We have no idea what we will get from one semester to the next, as we have to line up the classes first. So we wrote, “You get 5% of whatever we get net, off the top, same as last year. When I know, you’ll know”. But as we all know, I am a crabby old lady troll.

I’m over 50, and am a cradle Catholic who has been around religious and priests all my life, enough to know that they usually do God’s work but are, sadly, human. I was a bit ticked at this tactic. I would have preferred there be some real catechesis on giving, and even did the research on several good options for this, along with the research for ParishPay.

No, they preferred what they had.

I think in the case of the OP, esp. since she does not work and her husband is not Catholic, and they are just starting out in life, if they can guarantee prayerful support, and put what they can when they can in the envelope, they are doing well.

I would also be the first to say that the price of a Starbucks, or a bottle of pop at a convenience store, or the price of a #3 meal at McDonald’s, would be good sacrificial giving in such an instance.
 
1ke said:
OK, first take a deep breath.

First, remember that you are being asked to **consider **a pledge. No one is **required **to make a pledge… Whether or not they could have, or should have, given is not my business-- it’s between them and God…Everyone’s circumstances are different… No, you and your children will NOT be denied the Sacraments.
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:clapping:
 
OutinChgoburbs said:
“According to their means” is an important note of grace.

I have seen the campaigns where we were handed a pledge card, given a homily by a priest who owns a racecar about our repsonsibility, then given time to fill out the pledge card. The pledge card contained a little chart that said, “If you make $XXX monthly” and a second column, “The you should give $XX monthly”.

In our case, we run our own business. We have no idea what we will get from one semester to the next, as we have to line up the classes first. So we wrote, “You get 5% of whatever we get net, off the top, same as last year. When I know, you’ll know”. But as we all know, I am a crabby old lady troll.

I’m over 50, and am a cradle Catholic who has been around religious and priests all my life, enough to know that they usually do God’s work but are, sadly, human. I was a bit ticked at this tactic. I would have preferred there be some real catechesis on giving, and even did the research on several good options for this, along with the research for ParishPay.

No, they preferred what they had.

I think in the case of the OP, esp. since she does not work and her husband is not Catholic, and they are just starting out in life, if they can guarantee prayerful support, and put what they can when they can in the envelope, they are doing well.

I would also be the first to say that the price of a Starbucks, or a bottle of pop at a convenience store, or the price of a #3 meal at McDonald’s, would be good sacrificial giving in such an instance.
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I think you and I would get along fine, in the “crabby lady” club 🙂 Great post and perceptions.

God bless!
 
OutinChgoburbs said:
I would also be the first to say that the price of a Starbucks, or a bottle of pop at a convenience store, or the price of a #3 meal at McDonald’s, would be good sacrificial giving in such an instance.

ROFLMBO!!!
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YADA said:
How do you 'prayerfully" decide what level of support you will provide your parish?

Is it just the amount you “think” they need?

Do you give form your left overs or your need?

Do you only need to give when you ‘decide’ to attend, not if you are traveling out of town for work or pleasure?
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YADA,

you and I are definitely on the same page with this one. But keep in mind that the OP is in a position of not having a personal income and in a marriage where here non-Catholic husband actually DOES contribute something to the parish.

Her situation is not the situation you and I are grousing about.

That said: I agree. Most people want to ignore the need and “prayerfully” decide what they will do, and when they will do it. I find those "If you make $XXX, then 5% would be $XX per week are VERY helpful.
 
And I know it’s hard to 'take attendance" (something that shouldn’t be done, anyway) with ParishPay, but it is SOOOO much easier to use than loading the envelope with a check or money. It teaches us to give to God first what we can, and then it comes out of the checking account faithfully every month. And if you find you have more, ParishPay has a “one time” section, in addition to the regular amount.
 
I used to attend a church that would take 20 minutes out of every 4th mass to talk about the finances of the church. OUT OF MASS! They would go on and on about how they paid this and had expected to have this much and only ended up with this much and how they begged your continued support. It was so irritating to have time taken out of mass. My husband was near irate over it. After 6 months of this we would get up and leave once the speach began.
We have always lived on a TIGHT budget and would empty our pockets of all extras on Sundays but hated the fact that the church made us feel like no one could ever give enough.
 
OutinChgoburbs said:
And I know it’s hard to 'take attendance" (something that shouldn’t be done, anyway) with ParishPay, but it is SOOOO much easier to use than loading the envelope with a check or money. It teaches us to give to God first what we can, and then it comes out of the checking account faithfully every month. And if you find you have more, ParishPay has a “one time” section, in addition to the regular amount.
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If this is off topic, ignore it.

But what is the problem with taking attendance – if by that you mean simply counting the number of people who show up each week, and not taking attendance by name.

Actually, knowing who is showing up regularly also helps with making strategic decisions. If you have envelopes and keep track of weekly giving, you get a feel for both the operational and spiritual platform of the parish. OTOH, I know several people who write a check for $3 or $5K once a year and never put anything in the basket on Sunday.
 
First, on the form, check to see if there is a statement to the effect that nothing on this form constitutes a binding contract. I’ve seen that on pledge forms at our parish. And I have heard of one story some years ago from someone who was recounting that her parents’ parish was pursuing them legally based on what they filled out onthe pledge form. So read the form carefully.

Additionally, if you are living “paycheck to paycheck”, how did the “recommended figure” come to thousands of dollars (unless some of those thousands are already going to your husband’s church).
 
**Thanks again to all who offered their good advice!

It was a GREAT Sunday, and the pledging went beautifully. When the time came to make our pledges, I was just kind of lost. I filled out the personal info, and just stopped short at the sight of all the possible financial donation possibilities. I was about to MAKE a “will prayerfully support the campaign,” when My husband, darling that he is, was inspired to ask me to record a monthly amount to contribute. I was :crying:! God is so good to me, and didn’t even let this little thing cause me further grief! What a good, loving and merciful God we have. And my husband is just the best man in the whole world!

To the one who asked: I am a convert from a PROTESTANT background. Money was never pushed anymore than it is in our Catholic Church.

I am very hurt by the poster who attacked my husband in this. First of all I asked specific advice about what to do in a situation where the catholic party of a mixed marriage has no income, and what to mark on a campaign envelope that didn’t have a zero dollar option. I also wanted advice on what to tell the person in charge of phoning us about my inability to contribute at this time.

I mean…COME ON! My husband is PROTESTANT and donates the MAJORITY of his church contributions to a church that is NOT his own! Yes…the CATHOLIC church. Whoever talked poorly about such a man, you know who you are, that was very inconsiderate. 😦

Thanks again to all who posted!

**
 
mercygate said:
If this is off topic, ignore it.

But what is the problem with taking attendance – if by that you mean simply counting the number of people who show up each week, and not taking attendance by name.

Actually, knowing who is showing up regularly also helps with making strategic decisions. If you have envelopes and keep track of weekly giving, you get a feel for both the operational and spiritual platform of the parish. OTOH, I know several people who write a check for $3 or $5K once a year and never put anything in the basket on Sunday.
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I don’t think it is OT, because giving isn’t just about money. I wonder if there’s another way to do it.
Convert_in_99 said:
Thanks again to all who offered their good advice!

It was a GREAT Sunday, and the pledging went beautifully. When the time came to make our pledges, I was just kind of lost. I filled out the personal info, and just stopped short at the sight of all the possible financial donation possibilities. I was about to MAKE a “will prayerfully support the campaign,” when My husband, darling that he is, was inspired to ask me to record a monthly amount to contribute. I was :crying:! God is so good to me, and didn’t even let this little thing cause me further grief! What a good, loving and merciful God we have. And my husband is just the best man in the whole world!
what to tell the person in charge of phoning us about my inability to contribute at this time.
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Oh, he is a keeper for sure!!! I am glad you could come up with a monthly amount!!!👍 Broken down into weekly, it won’t pinch at all.
 
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