PLEASE HELP! Parish is near forcing us to donate! What to do?

[ronnette]

Keep it simple, babe. You give what you can, when you are in a position to do so. When you can’t, you don’t. They can’t exactly send goons over to break your legs, you know?

When you can’t give them money, maybe you can give them extra prayers, or volunteer time, or something. You just do what you can.

 

[mesquite_magic]

I am puzzled that you are so stressed about this. I guess “convert in 99” doesn’t mean “convert from a Protestant background” – Right?

I am one of the CRANKIEST people about giving to the parish! But, unlike many Catholics, who came from countries where the government subsidizes the Church, I came from Protestant background where it was very clear WHO was paying the mortgage (us), the heating bill (us), the cooling bill (us), the light bill (us), the building maintenance (us), the pastor’s salary (us), the music director’s salary (us), the DRE’s salary (us), the landscaper’s fee (us).

Catholic parishes in the U.S. are like Protestant churches: We have to pay our own bills and there is nothing wrong about a campaign to help people get that message. None of this is free.

When people tell me they are too strapped to give to the church, I wonder how much they are spending each month on the lottery? Cable TV? Internet access? Cell phone? Car payment?

Not targeting the OP here, because the DH situation is a BIG extenuation, but to my mind, in general, tithing is like being overweight. There’s a whole lot of noise about why we can’t give a couple of bucks or lose those 30 pounds, but not a whole lot of ownership of the fact that we’re eating 600 calories of vanilla ice cream for dessert every night.

I understand what you are saying here. At the same time, it’s very difficult, when you are poor, to write on a card, “sorry, no money to give”.

I was a single mother of three. I had NOTHING left over after the bills were paid. Those bills were, rent, daycare, and food. Luckily, my rent included utilities. We didn’t have cable TV, or go out to Micky D’s.

I did put a dollar or two in the collection basket every week. Somehow I scronged it up. I would have been mortified having to fill out a form as to what I should give. Yikes. I probably would have written None of your business!

That said, I did give my time. I still do. I volunteer with Youth Group. I helped out with Landings (a welcome to returning Catholics), and where-ever else I could. You give what you can. For me, that was time insted of money.

Kim

 

[mercygate]

Thanks again to all who offered their good advice!

It was a GREAT Sunday, and the pledging went beautifully. When the time came to make our pledges, I was just kind of lost. I filled out the personal info, and just stopped short at the sight of all the possible financial donation possibilities. I was about to MAKE a “will prayerfully support the campaign,” when My husband, darling that he is, was inspired to ask me to record a monthly amount to contribute. I was :crying:! God is so good to me, and didn’t even let this little thing cause me further grief! What a good, loving and merciful God we have. And my husband is just the best man in the whole world!

To the one who asked: I am a convert from a PROTESTANT background. Money was never pushed anymore than it is in our Catholic Church.

I am very hurt by the poster who attacked my husband in this. First of all I asked specific advice about what to do in a situation where the catholic party of a mixed marriage has no income, and what to mark on a campaign envelope that didn’t have a zero dollar option. I also wanted advice on what to tell the person in charge of phoning us about my inability to contribute at this time.

I mean…COME ON! My husband is PROTESTANT and donates the MAJORITY of his church contributions to a church that is NOT his own! Yes…the CATHOLIC church. Whoever talked poorly about such a man, you know who you are, that was very inconsiderate.

**Thanks again to all who posted! **

You’ve got a winner there! God love ya!

Now, don’t feel relieved because he is generous, feel relieved because it is understood that a person in your position is in no position to make a financial pledge at all! Catholics married to non-Catholics often struggle just to get to Mass on Sunday.

It’s not about the money although it sure does TAKE money to maintain the mission! You do what YOU can do, and that’s all anybody can ask.

 

[mercygate]

I understand what you are saying here. At the same time, it’s very difficult, when you are poor, to write on a card, “sorry, no money to give”.

I was a single mother of three. I had NOTHING left over after the bills were paid. Those bills were, rent, daycare, and food. Luckily, my rent included utilities. We didn’t have cable TV, or go out to Micky D’s.

I did put a dollar or two in the collection basket every week. Somehow I scronged it up. I would have been mortified having to fill out a form as to what I should give. Yikes. I probably would have written None of your business!

That said, I did give my time. I still do. I volunteer with Youth Group. I helped out with Landings (a welcome to returning Catholics), and where-ever else I could. You give what you can. For me, that was time insted of money.

Kim

 

[YADA]

I am glad it workd out for you convertin99,

I think you are mistaken in your characterization though…You and your husband are married…You are catholic, while you may not work outside the home, you work in your marriage towards common goals…You share in the family finances…without your participation your husband could not have the life you have…

I was a stay at home mom when my children were little…even though I did not earn a paycheck, I contributed to the family…

You mentioned children and sacraments…your husband shoud want to support his catholic wife and children receive the spiritual nurturing they need. [Obviously he does as eveidenced by his support]. And it seems he is supportive of their being catholic and obviously he is attending services with you, so he is receiving a benefit as well…hearing God’s word proclaimed, etc…

So you do have resources to support the church, you do not have a zero income…you share in a family income…

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

We have always lived on a TIGHT budget and would empty our pockets of all extras on Sundays but hated the fact that the church made us feel like no one could ever give enough.

**That’s the biggest problem, IMO. It is only the ones who cannot give any more who feel guilty and wish they could. The ones who could and should be giving more probably weren’t affected at all by the monthly speeches…

Malia
**

 

[kage_ar]

Offer talent and time - they need that too!

 

[Convert_in_99]

You’ve got a winner there! God love ya!

Now, don’t feel relieved because he is generous, feel relieved because it is understood that a person in your position is in no position to make a financial pledge at all! Catholics married to non-Catholics often struggle just to get to Mass on Sunday.

It’s not about the money although it sure does TAKE money to maintain the mission! You do what YOU can do, and that’s all anybody can ask.

**Aww thanks! I sure think so! He’s everything to me!

As for Sunday Mass…I don’t struggle getting there. My husband knows that it comes first and that I won’t sacrifice it for anything.

My husband comes with me EVERY SINGLE SUNDAY! We go to his church once or twice a month (if that) and I do everything except communion, and he the same in my Church.

He’s very supportive of my faith. He’s usually the one that says…“hasn’t it been a few weeks? Don’t you need to go to confession?” Like I said…he’s super-supportive! :yup:

We don’t have kids yet, but, I think they will be just fine. My husband wants them to attend his church too (he knows sacraments are my field though), but knows mine comes first if we can only attend one that week, and he’s fine with that. The children will be home all day with me and homeschooled, so he knows they will be deeply rooted in the Catholic Faith, and is perfectly fine with that.

He’s really one of the most Catholic supportive protestants I’ve met.

**

 

[AlanFromWichita]

True stewardship is based on the person’s need to give, not on the parish’s need to receive.

If we give because we feel responsible for paying the bills, we have missed the point. Stewardship is an expression of thanks – even a prayer – to God for the gifts He has given us. Of course, as long as people give for whatever reason the bills will get paid, but parish leaders who are seldom formally trained in stewardship are looking at income and expenses and they see stewardship as a code word for bills being paid. To let go of that in their communication with parishioners without very specific formal training is like asking a leopard to change its own stripes. It can be done, though, and parishes who approach stewardship as an invitation instead of an obligation have done well. Adding time and talent to the mix just so that the focus is not completely on money does not really help, as long as the compulsory nature or the guilt trip or other coercive means is still in place. That just means stewardship is a code word for chores getting done too along with bills getting paid.

Truly if hearts of gratitude can be nurtured and stewardship is taught as a means of giving thanks, there will be more than enough money to pay the bills. The parish leaders could think about what sort of social justice or parish unity or other projects they might envision. Oh yes, and all that without a bunch of fundraisers.

In my opinion, parishes who “require” stewardship have robbed the faithful of their opportunity to give freely and cheerfully and gratefully. How is one going to know how wonderful it feels to give freely with a finance committee breathing down one’s neck?

Alan

 

[YADA]

Funny how the posts that complain about the campaigns to increase giving, costs associated with weddings, etc…get pages and pages of responses…and most of the posts rather negative on the presumption of the request for support…

posts about how to determine a proper contribution are short lived and not of any interest…

Texaspanda, why was your family more angry that so much time and effort was required to get the parishioners to meet their financial obligations? Why did you not get angry over the fact that peoplle were coming to church but did not see a need to support their parish?

I ask this because every parish has a finance council [it may go by various names but Canon Law requires it]. Every parishioner has a right to know how the parish funds are spent…

We are the parish…let me say that again…WE ARE THE PARISH…it is us who pays the salaries of the parish staff. Do you have a parish secretary? That person must be paid [at least the federal/state minimum], the parish must provide the FICA match [plus medicare, workers compensation] and any other mandated benefits - retirement, insurance. The same is true for the parish priest, the janitor and any other employees. Do you have a school? It is our obligation to provide the working environment and the tools necessary for the parish to function. It is our responsibility to train the volunteers and obtain the background checks [which are not free] to insure a safe environment for children to receive their RE…

If your parish is not financially viable, this is something you as a parishioner need to know…

Parishes that are not viable get closed…and let me tell you, I have never heard of a parish closure that was happy!

Do we want our parishes to need to seek second collections just to hire a plumber? or other basic need…

And the poster with two children in catholic schools paying $11,000…this probably does not represent the total cost…the average actual cost for a catholic school student is around $7,500…my parish supplements approximately 20% of the parish school’s operating budget. This is money from the Sunday collection that goes to the school whether that parishioner has a student or not. The school parents also use fund raisers to offset costs…hate to break it to you but most off those fundraisers are targeted at and offered to the parish at large…again whether those who buy the raffle tickets [or whatever] have children in school or not…

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Dear YADA,

You make some valid points that we focus on the coercive efforts of the parish leadership rather than the slacking off of the parishioners. The reason I focus on it is that as parish leaders, they should learn about true stewardship and ways to confer it to the parish. Grassroots efforts to improve stewardship aren’t likely to be effective until the leaders learn the basics and begin to apply them.

As an aside, the numbers you quoted are significantly higher than the numbers in our parish. Our costs are more like $4000 per student. One thing that concerns me is you present a 20% parish subsidy as a large thing. Every parishioner has the same call to stewardship whether they have children in school or not. In our parish the grade school and the high school tuition subsidies account for maybe 2/3 or the parish budget while about 80% of the families do not have children in school. If all are call to stewardship equally, the parish subsidy would be far greater than 20% or else what we have is a mixture of stewardship with tuition. Of course, this is common in parishes who try to practice stewardship but don’t know how because they focus their stewardship “enforcement” efforts on school parents, over whom they have leverage.

Alan

 

[texaspanda]

Texaspanda, why was your family more angry that so much time and effort was required to get the parishioners to meet their financial obligations? Why did you not get angry over the fact that peoplle were coming to church but did not see a need to support their parish?

…

Put it on the front page of the 10 page bulletin. It’s disheartening that they would take almost half of a mass away from families during a designated worship time.

 

[YADA]

Hi Alan,

I agree that stewardship is everyones responsibility…ideally every parish would have a school and all the parish children would attend and tuition woud be zero…think this could not happen…I know it could if we took our Christian life serioulsy and trusted in God…if we gave back from God’s gifts to us generously…

I mentioned the tuition because many school families feel they do not need to contribute to the parish because they pay tuition as if that tuition represented ALL of the benefits they receive from the parish and ALL of the cost associated with that school education…neither of which is true…[and the psoter used it in similar fashion as in I am paying for two …]

What the true cost is is not typically evident, even in the full tuition costs for your parish…the diocese usually provides a certian amount of subsidy, etc…I do not know what your diocese does nor what the actual costs are…unless you still have a religious order of sisters teaching in the class room $4000 sounds very low…

Similarly, I have had non school families say they do not need to contribute to the parish because most of the money goees to the school ad they do not have children in school…

As for our leadership needing to do a better job, that is pewrhaps true…but I am a volunteer in my parish and have had many roles…the same message [whether from the after mass announcements, bulletin or homily] can be well received as in “Wonderful, we should have stuff like this more often…” to this response “I am never retunring to this church again…all you ever do is …and it is just horrble…you should never so that again…” The same message…same words…same person…

And anyone who wants to help with stewardship … would probably be welcome…anyone who wants to help with developing a budget and allocating the resources can step up and offer their assitance…

Personally, I think people have unreal expectations about “finances” and "church’ [spirituality]…we want our church to operate divinely…we don’t like to think about the nuts and bolts of the day to day mundane living reality and our church…

We don’t apporach our personal finances that way [unless we are headed for bankruptcy] we don’t run our businesses that way [nor would we want our employer’s too if we are employees] because businesses that fail to pay their vendors and employees not last…Churches are not exempt from labor regulations…churches have to meet ADA and other structural codes…they may be tax exept for some things like income but are subject to other taxes like Social Security and even some property taxes…

If you join the YMCA or the 24 Hour Fitness or the Pilates…you have to pay your dues…If you rent an apartment, the landlord expects you to pay the rent…

If you come to church, are a member of the parish, you expect the parish to be there for Mass [complete with vestments, candles, missals, hosts, wine, chalices, linens, etc] and your parish staff expects to get paid…

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

That is why, dear Yada, instead of just saying, “Here’s a pledge card with what you should give- fork it over” or giving the impression that pledges are mandatory and this is the procedure, parishes NEED catechesis about giving- with which I don’t see you disagreeing. It seems to me your parish, through your efforts, is trying to do just that. I know for a fact how lucky your parish is to have you, and your brains, on this task. Not every parish is as good as yours at getting this valuable information across to the parishioners, and you can’t biolcate.

You will recall I suggested that people look at the expenses in their lives, ones that are not necessary- a bottle of Coke from a convenient-not-grocery-store, whatever “value meal” one chooses at McDonald’s, the unnecessary morning latte and muffin- and use that amount, one time a week, as the starting point for weekly giving. If a person can afford a bottle of Coke when they stop for gas at 7-11, they can put that $1.29 to $1.99 plus tax in an envelope that week, and do without the one bottle, going home and having a glass of water from the tap or water dispenser, or carrying a prefilled water bottle from home. Similarly, one could pick, say, the “value meal” at Mikky D’s with a double cheese burger, fries and a drink, about $4 with tax, give that up one day a week, and eat a lunch from home while sticking the money in the envelope. And I know those cups of coffee at the cart with accompanying biscotti easily run $5.

And you were right a couple posts back about the money in the household being “family” money. Still, when one spouse is not Catholic, it is very generous for him or her to say, “Honey let’s set aside $X a month for your monthly contribution to your parish.” That young man has no idea how much closer he made his wife with that gesture.

 

[mercygate]

That’s the biggest problem, IMO. It is only the ones who cannot give any more who feel guilty and wish they could. The ones who could and should be giving more probably weren’t affected at all by the monthly speeches…

Malia

Ain’t THAT the truth!

Again, I live in an affluent part of the country. But the average credit card and other consumer debt is staggering in our demographic. People can’t live without cable, Internet, cell phones, health club memberships, big SUVs, granite countertops and bathroom floors – not to mention the $$$ people spend on the lottery; I’ve seen people drop $60 when the take isn’t even one of the 9-figure numbers! But $25 for the collection plate is outside the budget.

 

[mercygate]

Our parish did a strong stewardship campaign a couple of years ago, stressing the gratitude piece. It was a successful effort, and we have upped the weekly giving by more than 30%.

It is correct that “forcing” people to give is not ideal. But I believe that a person who gives out of a sense of duty is not in any way defaulting on gratitude. Meeting a need is an act of charity, whatever the motive. Gratitude comes with the giving. Sometimes you have to DO the right thing before you think yo CAN do it.

 

[MCL]

I mentioned the tuition because many school families feel they do not need to contribute to the parish because they pay tuition as if that tuition represented ALL of the benefits they receive from the parish and ALL of the cost associated with that school education…neither of which is true…[and the psoter used it in similar fashion as in I am paying for two …]

…

Actually, I mentioned catholic school tuition in specific reference to our financial situation (it is a lot of money and takes a lot of sacrifice and creative budgeting to afford the $11,000 price tag every year -we camp in a tent for our family vacation, we do not have cell phones, we purchase used cars, etc.), not our belief as to what we contribute or “get out” of our parish or school.

From my post:

“Also, our personal financial situation cannot be squeezed any further. We already squeeze $11,000 per year to send our children to Catholic schools.”

As to our belief in contributing to our parish and school and our actions that support that belief:

Yes, we are stewardship-focused. Not left-over givers. Financially, we have always given to our parish first. My husband and I, and our children regularly give of our time, talent, and treasures - Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist, CCD teacher, altar servers, VBS volunteers, etc.

Our parish does not have a school so our children attend a neighboring catholic school. We make too much for financial aid (barely over the limit for a family our size - one year it was $90 over the limit!) and not enough that it isn’t a hardship. We volunteer to the tune of many hours per week plus work their festival, etc.

Yes, there are people who think their catholic school tuition is their parish donation. But we are not those people.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Dear YADA,

It does sound like we’re using different models. In our diocese/parish, the parish picks up the tab for school and the parents pay fees, but not tuition. A few hundred per family (2 kids) in grade school or about $600 per child in high school – 2 high school children in our case. The parish subsidizes the high school tuition for each stewardship family in the parish.

We have a new pastor now who is committed to see everyone treated the same with respect to stewardship, whether or not they have a child in the parish schools. What they pledge it’s between them and God. Once they pledge it’s also between him and the finance committee. I am in favor of his efforts, because the school parents should not be treated differently than the non-school parents on stewardship. At least that’s the way it works in this model I was using.

Alan

 

[Norseman82]

Maybe what is needed is a catchy slogan:

“I’ve upped my contribution…up yours!”

 

[lak611]

Maybe what is needed is a catchy slogan:

“I’ve upped my contribution…up yours!”

My mom’s neighbourhood newsletter had a list of funny mistakes in church bulletins. That was one of them!