Please help refute this....Sola scripture vs Roman Catholicism

[Porknpie]

So after shunning the Sabbath day and erroneously calling it part of the ceremonial law for the Jews, we now have a church father keeping Pentecost, a yearly Sabbath and feast day, and a true part of the ceremonial law. Does that make any sense to anyone?

So Coptic Christian, after reading all the NT verses on Paul keeping the Sabbath and preaching to the Gentiles on that day, now reads the above completely erroneous statements from professed “church fathers” that Porknpie submitted, and he professes to be confused.

, “Why halt thee between two opinions?” If the Scripture be true then follow them. if the traditions of men take precedence, then follow them. “Choose you this day whom you will serve”

May Jesus never say of us,“Ye do err in not knowing the scriptures” (Matt 22:29)]

Phineas, quote me where I profess to being confused. I can not find the quote. It’s possible but not likely, and only before I drink my coffee in the morning. The church fathers reflect the teachings of the Jesus, to his disciples who taught their successors. The bible, the early church and 2000 years of church history including the reformers are at odds with Ellen Whites interpretation of scripture including that of the Sabbath and the Eucharist being only symbolic. Where is the apostasy of the early church? She is a false prophet, in the likes of Joseph Smith.

A previous posting from Church Militant:

Embarrassing Failed Prophecies

In her early career Mrs. White made a number of predictions about Christ’s imminent return. The most notable of those was a specific prediction made at a conference of believers in 1856. This statement was later published in the book Testimonies and received widespread attention within the SDA Church. Mrs. White claimed she was shown in vision that some of those present at the 1856 conference would be translated:

I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: “Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus.” Testimonies, Vol. 1, p.

When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. Deut. 18:22

:compcoff: :coffeeread:

 

[CopticChristian]

Phineas, quote me where I profess to being confused. I can not find the quote. It’s possible but not likely, and only before I drink my coffee in the morning. The church fathers reflect the teachings of the Jesus, to his disciples who taught their successors. The bible, the early church and 2000 years of church history including the reformers are at odds with Ellen Whites interpretation of scripture including that of the Sabbath and the Eucharist being only symbolic. Where is the apostasy of the early church? She is a false prophet, in the likes of Joseph Smith.

A previous posting from Church Militant:

:compcoff: :coffeeread:
​

Pork,

My brother. Here is the dilema. First we accept that the Sabbath is Saturday…Ok then what else must we accept. Phineas needs to accept and understand this. I suggest that we concede to Phineas and ask a question.

Ok…lets just agree that the Sabbath is Saturday…problem solved…what then do we have to accept.,…I do have a suggestion…Having accepted that the Sabbath is Saturday…do I have to accept that Ellen White was a Prophet?:bigyikes:…let me know Phineas.

There are two major distinctive claims of Seventh Day Adventism, which separate it from the rest of Christianity:

First, that Christians are supposed to keep Saturday, the Sabbath, holy. They oppose worshiping on Sunday, arguing that it’s against the Ten Commandments and generally anti-Scriptural.

Second, that the founder of Seventh Day Adventism, Ellen G. White, was a prophet.
The official Seventh Day Adventist website declares:

One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord’s messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction.

Then Phineas has to contend with reality…

No Adventist scholar has ever taught or written that Sunday observance began in the fourth century with Constantine. A compelling proof is the symposium The Sabbath in Scripture and History, produced by 22 Adventist scholars and published by the Review and Herald in 1982. None of the Adventist scholars who contributed to this symposium ever suggest that Sundaykeeping began in the fourth century.
So, once they examine the evidence, even Adventist scholars realize that White is full of it. Obvious question: if that’s the case, why remain Adventist?

The entire Seventh Day Adventist church is discredited, because it:

(a) declares Ellen White a prophetess, when she was clearly not;
(b) declares her writings as an authoritative source of truth, when they clearly are not; and
(c) continues, as its distinctive mission, is to celebrate the Sabbath on the Seventh Day, Saturday. Even the church’s name is based on this mission… yet the mission is founded on junk history, false prophesies, and bad Scriptural exegesis.

So, Phineas…lets agree, stop arguing about the Sabbath…Every Christian should go to Church on Saturday…does not matter the reason…I go to Church on Saturday…and all Christians have agreed that we will go to Church on Saturday…no more fighting about this…:slapfight:

Lets all go to Church on Saturday…Ok:grouphug:

Now, for the love of Mike…who in the world is Mike?..another thread…lets just get on with it…what is the next topic for discussion that Phineas would like to have an agreement on…:​

 

[pablope]

Object Lesson on Importance of Sola Scriptura

Errors of the so called Church fathers submitted by Porknpie

So Coptic Christian, after reading all the NT verses on Paul keeping the Sabbath and preaching to the Gentiles on that day, now reads the above completely erroneous statements from professed “church fathers” that Porknpie submitted, and he professes to be confused.

, “Why halt thee between two opinions?” If the Scripture be true then follow them. if the traditions of men take precedence, then follow them. “Choose you this day whom you will serve”

May Jesus never say of us,“Ye do err in not knowing the scriptures” (Matt 22:29)

Phineas…let us make it easy…for you and everyone on here…you want us to follow you…and the teachings of Ellen G white…on the Sabbath worship and why sunday worshipping catholics and other protestants are wrong…let me suggest one thin…PROVE YOUR AUTHORITY IS FROM GOD!

Provide proof of the following, following the example of St. Paul:

Now look at Acts 13:
1 Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. 2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off.

Romans 10:
14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”[g]

**So…in accordance with Rom 10: 15…who sent EGW and you? (following the example of st. Paul)
**

Galatians 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days.
Galatians 2:2 I went in response to a revelation and, meeting privately with those esteemed as leaders, I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain.
Paul had a direct revelation from Christ. Yet, from the two passages above, he goes to visit Cephas/Peter and submits himself to Peter. Gal 2: 2 states his purpose…to present his gospel/message to make sure it is in line with the Apostles and what they were handed down from Christ.

Paul fulfills this important requirement to know what is from God and what is not:

from 1John 4…6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

So…have you and EGW fulfilled the passage above? Who did you submit your teaching and declaration too…and who approved them?

**
So Phineas, my brother…why don’t you answer and provide answers to the questions above…and prove how you have fulfilled them…and me may start following your lead…and consider you our new prophet…**

 

[Porknpie]

Pork,

My brother. Here is the dilema. First we accept that the Sabbath is Saturday…Ok then what else must we accept. Phineas needs to accept and understand this. I suggest that we concede to Phineas and ask a question.

Ok…lets just agree that the Sabbath is Saturday…problem solved…what then do we have to accept.,…I do have a suggestion…Having accepted that the Sabbath is Saturday…do I have to accept that Ellen White was a Prophet?:bigyikes:…let me know Phineas.

Then Phineas has to contend with reality…

So, Phineas…lets agree, stop arguing about the Sabbath…Every Christian should go to Church on Saturday…does not matter the reason…I go to Church on Saturday…and all Christians have agreed that we will go to Church on Saturday…no more fighting about this…:slapfight:

Lets all go to Church on Saturday…Ok:grouphug:

Now, for the love of Mike…who in the world is Mike?..another thread…lets just get on with it…what is the next topic for discussion that Phineas would like to have an agreement on…:

Ok Amen. I’ll go to church today… :hug1:

Phineas, what do we agree on next?

 

[CopticChristian]

Ok Amen. I’ll go to church today… :hug1:

Phineas, what do we agree on next?

Pork,

Ya gotta get Pablope to agree to go to Church on Saturday too.

 

[Patavium]

Let me repeat this to see if Phineas is brave enough to provide answers

No Adventist scholar has ever taught or written that Sunday observance began in the fourth century with Constantine. A compelling proof is the symposium The Sabbath in Scripture and History, produced by 22 Adventist scholars and published by the Review and Herald in 1982. None of the Adventist scholars who contributed to this symposium ever suggest that Sundaykeeping began in the fourth century.
So, once they examine the evidence, even Adventist scholars realize that White is full of it. Obvious question: if that’s the case, why remain Adventist?

The entire Seventh Day Adventist church is discredited, because it:

(a) declares Ellen White a prophetess, when she was clearly not;
(b) declares her writings as an authoritative source of truth, when they clearly are not; and
(c) continues, as its distinctive mission, is to celebrate the Sabbath on the Seventh Day, Saturday. Even the church’s name is based on this mission… yet the mission is founded on junk history, false prophesies, and bad Scriptural exegesis.

 

[CopticChristian]

Let me repeat this to see if Phineas is brave enough to provide answers

Pat,

Are you going to agree that it is fair to concede that Christians go to Church on Saturday and Phineas does not have to argue this point?

No Adventist scholar has ever taught or written that Sunday observance began in the fourth century with Constantine. A compelling proof is the symposium The Sabbath in Scripture and History, produced by 22 Adventist scholars and published by the Review and Herald in 1982. None of the Adventist scholars who contributed to this symposium ever suggest that Sundaykeeping began in the fourth century.
So, once they examine the evidence, even Adventist scholars realize that White is full of it. Obvious question: if that’s the case, why remain Adventist?

The entire Seventh Day Adventist church is discredited, because it:

(a) declares Ellen White a prophetess, when she was clearly not;
(b) declares her writings as an authoritative source of truth, when they clearly are not; and
(c) continues, as its distinctive mission, is to celebrate the Sabbath on the Seventh Day, Saturday. Even the church’s name is based on this mission… yet the mission is founded on junk history, false prophesies, and bad Scriptural exegesis.

 

[Patavium]

Pat,

Are you going to agree that it is fair to concede that Christians go to Church on Saturday and Phineas does not have to argue this point?

Yes, we should all go on Saturdays. I would like Phineas to address the other points

 

[Porknpie]

Pork,

Ya gotta get Pablope to agree to go to Church on Saturday too.

The invitation is extended and accepted. We have two masses on Saturday so it’s easy to do.

 

[pablope]

Pork,

Ya gotta get Pablope to agree to go to Church on Saturday too.

Hi, CC and Pork…I do go on the Saturday vigil masses…in fact, am on my way now…

 

[Suzillah]

I truly want to believe that Roman Catholicism is the way but I also need reassurance, that’s why I brought it here to be refuted, for some peace of mind. My soul has been tortured with this kind of stuff for too long, so I am asking the experts.

Dear Suzy I was once like you, study Gods word starting in the book of John. Pray before reading and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you and show you the truth. One of my favorite scriptures is Matthew 11:28,29 it is so beautiful. We should always compare what any man says to what is in the scriptures and if it does not match with the bible it is not true. There are a lot of false teachers out in the world. I will keep you in my prayers and ask the Lord to open your eye and heart show you His truth.
Prayerfully Suzillah

 

[CopticChristian]

Hi, CC and Pork…I do go on the Saturday vigil masses…in fact, am on my way now…

So,

Hopefully everyone agrees that there is no longer a need to argue about going to Church on Saturday. The point is made and accepted. What is the next point that Phineas would have us look at?

No Adventist scholar has ever taught or written that Sunday observance began in the fourth century with Constantine. A compelling proof is the symposium The Sabbath in Scripture and History, produced by 22 Adventist scholars and published by the Review and Herald in 1982. None of the Adventist scholars who contributed to this symposium ever suggest that Sundaykeeping began in the fourth century.
So, once they examine the evidence, even Adventist scholars realize that White is full of it. Obvious question: if that’s the case, why remain Adventist?

The entire Seventh Day Adventist church is discredited, because it:

(a) declares Ellen White a prophetess, when she was clearly not;
(b) declares her writings as an authoritative source of truth, when they clearly are not; and
(c) continues, as its distinctive mission, is to celebrate the Sabbath on the Seventh Day, Saturday. Even the church’s name is based on this mission… yet the mission is founded on junk history, false prophesies, and bad Scriptural exegesis.

kpeople:

Phineas…it is conceded without argument that Saturday is the day that Christians go to Church…next point please…:coolinoff:

 

[Phineas]

Phineas -
Now - What should these organizations do if and when then note that another organization holds to bible based doctrines that are different from their own? And when I say different I mean in conflict - and the difference is in an area that deals with matters of salvific import such as:

1. The real presence (if you do not eat…you have no life in you…John 6:53 )
2. The necessity of water Baptism
3. The permissibility of abortion inducing contraceptives (Murder is grave sin)

I do not bring these up as specifics to debate but rather as items on which various christian groups disagree…teaching conflicting things and claiming the bible (and the guidance of the Spirit) as justification…

What should the groups, “organized in local, regional or even worldwide churches and (with) ordain(ed) leaders as moved by the Holy Spirit”, do when they look at another “Christian” organization, and see them teaching a “different Gospel” or some important doctrine contrary to what your organization holds?

Thank you for your civil response JRKH;9570956.
Every Christian organization has a duty to lovingly rebuke error in so called “Christian organizations” that are preaching a false gospel and leading men into transgressing “God’s Law” (not Moses’ Law).
Ezek 3:20 Again, When a righteous [man] doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered;"**but his blood will I require at thine hand. **
The example Paul set on this is the pattern to follow. You preach the truth from scripture and let men and women choose whom they will follow… You do not take a band of men with you and raid the “offending” church’ worship service. but you proclaim your message so that all who have ears can hear it…In your general rebuke you offer the “offending church” an opportunity to show from scripture the reason they hold the views they do. God’s sheep will “search the scriptures to see whether things things are so.”
Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days **reasoned with them out of the scriptures, **
Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
Acts 18:28 For he mightily **convinced the Jews, [and that] publicly, showing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ. **

Error can not stand in the face of scripture, so many times your rebuke will be met with personal attacks on you or the organization they think you represent. But it is essential that, in your rebuke, you rebuke the error without personal animosity to those who hold.the error.

2Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season;** reprove, rebuke**, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry

 

[CopticChristian]

Thank you for your civil response JRKH;9570956.
Every Christian organization has a duty to lovingly **rebuke error **in so called “Christian organizations” that are preaching a **false gospel **and leading men into transgressing “God’s Law” (not Moses’ Law).
Ezek 3:20 Again, When a righteous [man] doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered;"**but his blood will I require at thine hand. **
The example Paul set on this is the pattern to follow. You preach the truth from scripture and let men and women choose whom they will follow… You do not take a band of men with you and raid the “offending” church’ worship service. but you proclaim your message so that all who have ears can hear it…In your general rebuke you offer the “offending church” an opportunity to show from scripture the reason they hold the views they do. God’s sheep will “search the scriptures to see whether things things are so.”
Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days **reasoned with them out of the scriptures, **
Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
Acts 18:28 For he mightily **convinced the Jews, [and that] publicly, showing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ. **

** Error** can not stand in the face of scripture, so many times your rebuke will be met with personal attacks on you or the organization they think you represent. But it is essential that, in your rebuke, you rebuke the error without personal animosity to those who hold.the error.

2Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season;** reprove, rebuke**, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry

Phineas,

Now that we have decided that Saturday is acceptable as a Sabbath you point out error, false Gospels and offending Church. Who decides what is error, what is a false Gospel, and what Church is offending.

Cite an example or two of error not referencing the Sabbath.

Cite an example of a false Gospel.

Cite a couple of offending Churches for me.

 

[pablope]

Thank you for your civil response JRKH;9570956.

2Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season;** reprove, rebuke**, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4:4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry

Phineas…in case you missed post 848…I asked you to prove your authority to teach and to preach…here is the series of questions I asked…so you should be able to answer them easily…unless you really do not have any answer and cannot prove your own authority:

[SIGN]Phineas…let us make it easy…for you and everyone on here…you want us to follow you…and the teachings of Ellen G white…on the Sabbath worship and why sunday worshipping catholics and other protestants are wrong…let me suggest one thin…PROVE YOUR AUTHORITY IS FROM GOD!

Provide proof of the following, following the example of St. Paul:

Now look at Acts 13:
1 Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. 2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off.

Romans 10:
14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”[g]

So…in accordance with Rom 10: 15…who sent EGW and you? (following the example of st. Paul)

Galatians 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days.
Galatians 2:2 I went in response to a revelation and, meeting privately with those esteemed as leaders, I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain.
Paul had a direct revelation from Christ. Yet, from the two passages above, he goes to visit Cephas/Peter and submits himself to Peter. Gal 2: 2 states his purpose…to present his gospel/message to make sure it is in line with the Apostles and what they were handed down from Christ.

Paul fulfills this important requirement to know what is from God and what is not:

from 1John 4…6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

So…have you and EGW fulfilled the passage above? Who did you submit your teaching and declaration too…and who approved them?

So Phineas, my brother…why don’t you answer and provide answers to the questions above…and prove how you have fulfilled them…and me may start following your lead…and consider you our new prophet…[/SIGN]

 

[Phineas]

CopticChristian;9580314]Phinieas,

I have stated and I will state again that I go to Mass, Church on Saturday. You have pointed out that the Sabbath is great concern to you and in my experience concerning Protestant issues this is of great concern for a minority of Protestants groups with one exception.

It appears that you have no idea what keeping the Sabbath holy means. Every christian should be clear on what God commands. Please read Isa 58:13-14…

Here is what God means when He says, " Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy"

Ex 20:8 -11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You think just going to church is keeping the Sabbath holy?

]I also see that you dismiss the Church fathers by describing them as purported and professed. You then dismiss ipso facto the books such as Martyrs Mirror, Foxe’s Book of Martyrs and another I cannot recall that was suggested to me by Contarini.

I do not dismiss the church fathers who uphold the scriptures. The church fathers Porknpie quoted were in gross error and anyone who read the scriptures should have know that… Jesus explicitly warned us of such men who would break a commandment and teach others to do so also.

 

[CopticChristian]

It appears that you have no idea what keeping the Sabbath holy means. Every christian should be clear on what God commands. Please read Isa 58:13-14…

Here is what God means when He says, " Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy"

Ex 20:8 -11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You think just going to church is keeping the Sabbath holy?

I do not dismiss the church fathers who uphold the scriptures. The church fathers Porknpie quoted were in gross error and anyone who read the scriptures should have know that… Jesus explicitly warned us of such men who would break a commandment and teach others to do so also.

Phineas,

Let’s agree that Christians should keep the Sabbath Holy. Now please address Pablope and my other questions.

 

[pablope]

It appears that you have no idea what keeping the Sabbath holy means.

**I do not dismiss the church fathers who uphold the scriptures. **The church fathers Porknpie quoted were in gross error and anyone who read the scriptures should have know that… Jesus explicitly warned us of such men who would break a commandment and teach others to do so also.

Well…Phineas…there goes the question of authority again…which I have asked you to prove.

So let me ask…what gave you the authority to decide to dismiss those Church Fathers PorknPie quoted? How do you know they are instead correct and you are the one in the wrong? Once again…I suggest prove where your authority comes from.

In are you not picking and choosing the ECFs which you would like to agree to and dismiss those that you think do not agree with you?

 

[Phineas]

Porknpie;9580459]Phineas, quote me where I profess to being confused. I can not find the quote.

Sorry for the confusion Porknpie. i was talking about Coptic being confused. I said,"So Coptic Christian, after reading all the NT verses on Paul keeping the Sabbath and preaching to the Gentiles on that day, now reads the above completely erroneous statements from professed “church fathers” that Porknpie submitted, and** he** professes to be confused.

i should have worded that long sentence more clearly

The church fathers reflect the teachings of the Jesus, to his disciples who taught their successors. The bible, the early church and 2000 years of church history including the reformers are at odds with Ellen Whites interpretation of scripture including that of the Sabbath and the Eucharist being only symbolic. Where is the apostasy of the early church? She is a false prophet, in the likes of Joseph Smith.

Someone earlier on this thread had a very insightful quote. i don’t know where it is located but it goes like this:
"The truth is still the truth even if no one believes it, and a lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it. ."

In spiritual matters , the majority has proven to be very unreliable.

As Christians we use the Bible as the great truth detector…Many so called church fathers were not real shepherds of the flock, but rather wolves in sheep clothing.
Paul warned of these men:
"Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Acts 20:30 “Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.” .

You and Coptic keep bringing up Adventism and Ellen White. Why? What do they have to do with the truth of the scriptures I present to you?.

i strongly suspect that since you cannot refute the plain word of God i present to you, you hope to discredit me by linking me to some organization or personage that you think you can discredit, and thereby call my credibility into question. Sort of like discrediting the messenger because you can’t discredit the message. I hope that is not the case, but if it is, then such subterfuge is unbecoming a Christian.

Why don’t either you or Coptic tell us what Adventism or Ellen White has to do with sola scriptura and traditions that contradict scripture; or with the truth or falsity of anything I have posted? Maybe others as well as I may be interested in the relevance of your introduction of such unrelated subjects here on this sola scriptura thread.

 

[CopticChristian]

Sorry for the confusion Porknpie. i was talking about Coptic being confused. I said,"So Coptic Christian, after reading all the NT verses on Paul keeping the Sabbath and preaching to the Gentiles on that day, now reads the above completely erroneous statements from professed “church fathers” that Porknpie submitted, and** he** professes to be confused.

i should have worded that long sentence more clearly

Someone earlier on this thread had a very insightful quote. i don’t know where it is located but it goes like this:
"The truth is still the truth even if no one believes it, and a lie is still a lie even if everyone believes it. ."

In spiritual matters , the majority has proven to be very unreliable.

As Christians we use the Bible as the great truth detector…Many so called church fathers were not real shepherds of the flock, but rather wolves in sheep clothing.
Paul warned of these men:
"Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Acts 20:30 “Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.” .

You and Coptic keep bringing up Adventism and Ellen White. Why? What do they have to do with the truth of the scriptures I present to you?.

i strongly suspect that since you cannot refute the plain word of God i present to you, you hope to discredit me by linking me to some organization or personage that you think you can discredit, and thereby call my credibility into question. Sort of like discrediting the messenger because you can’t discredit the message. I hope that is not the case, but if it is, then such subterfuge is unbecoming a Christian.

Why don’t either you or Coptic tell us what Adventism or Ellen White has to do with sola scriptura and traditions that contradict scripture; or with the truth or falsity of anything I have posted? Maybe others as well as I may be interested in the relevance of your introduction of such unrelated subjects here on this sola scriptura thread.

Phineas,

I believe in direct questions that deserve direct answers. If you have not noticed your posts tend to be more than a few lines. You have the power. You have the control. Here it is.

Are you a 7th Day Adventist?

Do you believe Ellen White was a Prophetess?

Answer these questions and we can get on with dialogue, until then the answers to these questions loom in the dialogue. Honestly I think you write and talk like a 7th Day Adventist.

It is looks like a chicken, sounds like a chicken, says its a duck…why not just answer a direct question. That will resolve the entire controversy. Why do you care if I think the Adventists and White are discredited?