Please help...trouble with 13 year old and questioning of faith

[jmcrae]

Respecting that someone does not believe in God is not right and can be a dangerous thing. That’s almost like encouraging him to continue doing it. I wouldn’t say you respect it.

“Respect” in the sense of, “Okay, this is where you are at,” - not in the sense of, “Okay, it’s all right for you to be an atheist.”

And bringing a notebook to Mass would probably make him pay even less attention. I believe a Missal would work better. You’ve got a few nice ideas, though.

You would go over the notebook with him after Mass, and discuss what he wrote down. You would make it absolutely clear that there is an expectation that he will have listened to every word of the Homily, and have an intelligent reason why he disagrees with it. Not just, “that’s dumb” but, “I think it’s incorrect, and here’s what I think is correct.”

For example he might say, “I disagree that Jesus miraculously made water into wine; I think he used Jello drink powder.” Then, you can explain to him that Jello drink powder was only first invented in the 1960s, and did not exist in the time of Christ. You can also ask him why he thinks Jesus would have done this miracle for that couple, and get him thinking about the fact that Jesus loved these people so much that He considered it important to help them.

With a Missal, you would have no way of discussing with him what his impressions are, or discerning where the problem is - although it would also be a good thing to go through the Missal with him at home, to make sure he understands what’s going on at Mass.

 

[MrsHall]

Just a few thoughts:

1. Yes, until adulthood, he must go to Mass with the family. That is our minimal obligation. Parents, in my opinion, are obligated to get their children to Mass on Sunday as well as themselves. (And you never know what the Presence of Jesus or a good homily might do!)
2. He should not receive the Holy Eucharist because he is not in a state of grace. Both these points will tell him you really mean what you say you believe.
3. If the family does not regularly go to Confession, this should change. I know I sound bossy, but this problem may have resolved itself previously if he had confessed his doubts to Father a month or year ago. Children often internalize things long before they are able to muster the courage to say anything about it. My children have come to me in tears about things that happened months ago that came out in Confession. “I wasn’t sorry when it happened, Mom, but I’m sorry now… I didn’t even realize how wrong I was.”
4. Talk with him regularly, in a natural way, about things pertaining to the faith. Reading the news in the morning usually sets the breakfast conversation for us. Part of parenting in this day and age seems to be apologetics. I don’t want my children to become easy targets for a well-meaning protestant one day (I was a well-meaning protestant for 25 years). I want my kids to be able to “think with the Church” as they say, and I believe with all my heart that only the Catholic Faith has sufficient answers to mankind’s questions.
5. Pray like mad. Offer your rosaries, chaplets, Mass intentions, etc., up for him. Pray to St. Monica and ask for her intercession. I have a link to a novena posted to my blog here. (It is at the end of the post.) Ask Mary to be his mother in a way you can’t. Ask the Holy Spirit to chase him down.
6. Once when I was having problems with a particular child a friend gave me a very trite sounding answer that was the absolute truth: “Be all you want her to be.” Model the faith you want your son to have, the courage to live out that faith.

I am praying for you. I mean that. He is only 13 (aren’t you glad he isn’t 18?!) and there is a lot God can do in the next five years. Hang in there.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

“Respect” in the sense of, “Okay, this is where you are at,” - not in the sense of, “Okay, it’s all right for you to be an atheist.”

You would go over the notebook with him after Mass, and discuss what he wrote down. You would make it absolutely clear that there is an expectation that he will have listened to every word of the Homily, and have an intelligent reason why he disagrees with it. Not just, “that’s dumb” but, “I think it’s incorrect, and here’s what I think is correct.”

For example he might say, “I disagree that Jesus miraculously made water into wine; I think he used Jello drink powder.” Then, you can explain to him that Jello drink powder was only first invented in the 1960s, and did not exist in the time of Christ. You can also ask him why he thinks Jesus would have done this miracle for that couple, and get him thinking about the fact that Jesus loved these people so much that He considered it important to help them.

With a Missal, you would have no way of discussing with him what his impressions are, or discerning where the problem is - although it would also be a good thing to go through the Missal with him at home, to make sure he understands what’s going on at Mass.

Ah, ok. Thanks for clearing that up. I guess I mis-understood you. Mea culpa.

Using the Missal at home seems to be a good idea.

 

[KC91]

Take him on a pilgramage to Rome; the sight of B16 and the grandeur of our holy faith will probably restore it to him.

 

[otjm]

First of all I would like to offer you my sincere apology for what is going on with your son. I will pray your situation with him improves.

To answer your question, you’re doing the right thing by making your son go to a Catholic Church. It’s a mortal sin to doubt God’s existance,

And you are no moral theologian. That is a pure crock of bull and a totally unsubstantiated personal opinion.

 

[humble_catholic]

Hello Mama, I am going through a dark night of the soul(massive torture and suffering for the last 5 months with no end in sight), so right now im trusting God on pure will alone. When I saw your post it broke my heart. Your son is in analytical mode.
You can point to things like the miracle of Fatima, which still to this day cant be explained by science. You can point to the fact that the philosophy of empirical science saying that everything can be proved by empiricism alone is based on faith alone, but the best evidence is through the historicity of the resurrection.

You can also look at things like Saint Joseph of cupertino being able to float high in the air and this being witnessed by a whole town of people, and him floating in front of the pope too. Im sure that your son hasnt done all of this research yet so ask him to try to research all of this with an open mind and open heart.

Allthough Doctor William Lane Craig is a protestant, He has won over many atheist into the side of Christianity through their intellectual side first. In my opinion he is one of the best out there. The historicity of the resurrection of Jesus comes from 2 accounts in the gospel of Mark and part of Saint Pauls first letter to the corinthian Church. The sources used in these 2 documents can be dated to 7 and 5 years after Jesus’s Death.

Here is an article from Doctor Craig

leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/docs/rediscover2.html

I will be praying for your son
God Bless
HUmble

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Sorry kid, 13 year olds do not have freedom of choice. My daughter was told that until she turned 18 and as long as she lived in our house, she would continue going to Mass with us and be Confirmed. The RCIA is full of reverts who dropped out at young age and spent a lifetime looking for God, who was in their own backyard all the time. Have you checked out the youth program in your parish? A good youth program can go a long way to support the youth and keep them involved.

I definitely think one can and should MAKE their underage children (or overaged dependents who’ve moved back home or never left) attend Mass. I’m not sure I would MAKE them receive a sacrament (though I would make them attend confirmation class).

 

[Bluegoat]

I definitely think one can and should MAKE their underage children (or overaged dependents who’ve moved back home or never left) attend Mass. I’m not sure I would MAKE them receive a sacrament (though I would make them attend confirmation class).

In fact, person who is beyond the age of reason and is a non-believer is not supposed to be Confirmed, no matter what their parents say.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

And you are no moral theologian. That is a pure crock of bull and a totally unsubstantiated personal opinion.

Wow, you need to calm down. Why are you trying to engage in a fight with me here? Trying to intentionally start fights is against forum rules.

And how is my opinion a crock of bull if all I said was it’s a mortal sin not to believe in God? Catholics know it’s a sin to be an athiest. I’m not going to participate in any argument you may be trying to stir up, but I would like you to reply and say why you dis-agree with my post.

 

[dconklin]

I am a father to a 13 year old as well as an Asst DRE. What you are going through is not uncommon. It happens in the best families. Sometimes it is just a phase and other times it is an on-going problem. Is there a youth minister or young (thinking) priest at your parish you could talk to? How about a different Mass - even at another parish?

I know the ‘youth’ Masses get bashed on this forum, but it may be just the thing your son needs to see God.

Many prayers for you and your family.

 

[Bluegoat]

Wow, you need to calm down. Why are you trying to engage in a fight with me here? Trying to intentionally start fights is against forum rules.

And how is my opinion a crock of bull if all I said was it’s a mortal sin not to believe in God? Catholics know it’s a sin to be an athiest. I’m not going to participate in any argument you may be trying to stir up, but I would like you to reply and say why you dis-agree with my post.

Well, you said it was a mortal sin to doubt God. Given the topic, you seemed to mean to doubt his existence. But it isn’t a sin to wonder “does God exist” or to think of the possibility that he might not, especially for someone who has never really been exposed to such ideas before. You can’t really affirm God without having thought of the possibility that he doesn’t exist. You may have not meant that it was a sin in that sense, but that is rather what it sounded like.

 

[Anna2552]

Introduce him to some nice catholic gals at church.

13 year old boy, faith restored, problem solved!!

 

[coolduude]

Has the OP posted again after starting this thread?

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

Well, you said it was a mortal sin to doubt God. Given the topic, you seemed to mean to doubt his existence. But it isn’t a sin to wonder “does God exist” or to think of the possibility that he might not, especially for someone who has never really been exposed to such ideas before. You can’t really affirm God without having thought of the possibility that he doesn’t exist. You may have not meant that it was a sin in that sense, but that is rather what it sounded like.

No, I meant it was a sin to not believe He exists. otjm just lost his cool and bashed me for my post, so I replied to his post.

I will say, however, that there is no possibility what-so-ever that God does not exist. Thoughts like that come from the Devil. Everyone will experience them from time to time, you must learn to ignore them.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

Has the OP posted again after starting this thread?

Unfortunetly, no. I was hoping she would post again. I’m curious to know how her son is doing with his issue.

 

[Stephentlig]

one way of approaching it would be to challenge his unbelief, ask him can he prove that God does not exist? ( of which noone can, not even the most hardcore philosophical atheist )

Tell him therefore that because he cannot prove that God does not exist, his belief therefore is one that requires faith. Then show him all the Miracles that have occurred through the Catholic Church, such as Lourdes, Fatima, the pictures of Our Lady on top of the coptic Church in Zeitun, the crying statues and the many more Miracles that have been brought about by God through his Catholic Church.

Pax Christi
Stephentlig

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

one way of approaching it would be to challenge his unbelief, ask him can he prove that God does not exist? ( of which noone can, not even the most hardcore philosophical atheist )

Tell him therefore that because he cannot prove that God does not exist, his belief therefore is one that requires faith. Then show him all the Miracles that have occurred through the Catholic Church, such as Lourdes, Fatima, the pictures of Our Lady on top of the coptic Church in Zeitun, the crying statues and the many more Miracles that have been brought about by God through his Catholic Church.

Pax Christi
Stephentlig

Good idea!

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Excellent advice!

Just a few thoughts:

1. Yes, until adulthood, he must go to Mass with the family. That is our minimal obligation. Parents, in my opinion, are obligated to get their children to Mass on Sunday as well as themselves. (And you never know what the Presence of Jesus or a good homily might do!)
2. He should not receive the Holy Eucharist because he is not in a state of grace. Both these points will tell him you really mean what you say you believe.
3. If the family does not regularly go to Confession, this should change. I know I sound bossy, but this problem may have resolved itself previously if he had confessed his doubts to Father a month or year ago. Children often internalize things long before they are able to muster the courage to say anything about it. My children have come to me in tears about things that happened months ago that came out in Confession. “I wasn’t sorry when it happened, Mom, but I’m sorry now… I didn’t even realize how wrong I was.”
4. Talk with him regularly, in a natural way, about things pertaining to the faith. Reading the news in the morning usually sets the breakfast conversation for us. Part of parenting in this day and age seems to be apologetics. I don’t want my children to become easy targets for a well-meaning protestant one day (I was a well-meaning protestant for 25 years). I want my kids to be able to “think with the Church” as they say, and I believe with all my heart that only the Catholic Faith has sufficient answers to mankind’s questions.
5. Pray like mad. Offer your rosaries, chaplets, Mass intentions, etc., up for him. Pray to St. Monica and ask for her intercession. I have a link to a novena posted to my blog here. (It is at the end of the post.) Ask Mary to be his mother in a way you can’t. Ask the Holy Spirit to chase him down.
6. Once when I was having problems with a particular child a friend gave me a very trite sounding answer that was the absolute truth: “Be all you want her to be.” Model the faith you want your son to have, the courage to live out that faith.

I am praying for you. I mean that. He is only 13 (aren’t you glad he isn’t 18?!) and there is a lot God can do in the next five years. Hang in there.

 

[otjm]

No, I meant it was a sin to not believe He exists. otjm just lost his cool and bashed me for my post, so I replied to his post.

I will say, however, that there is no possibility what-so-ever that God does not exist. Thoughts like that come from the Devil. Everyone will experience them from time to time, you must learn to ignore them.

I didn’t loose any cool at all. I just don’t have a whole lot of patience for people who go around spouting off that such and such is a mortal sin, as if they were some expert in moral theology. Sitting on a sanctimonious high horse and spouting off that such and such is a sin is a poor starting place in terms of dealing with a 13 year old. And contrary to your view of the moral universe, not all doubts come from the devil.

Something is at play, and the odds are, if this kid is actually 13, that he is not a flaming atheist. It is far more likely that something else is afoot, with a greater chance that it has to do with family dynamics than it does with God. The vast majority of 13 year olds have at best a hazy understanding of what the term “God” means, whether or not they can repeat word for word what the Baltimore Catechism says. Most adults trained reasonably well in theology have a hard time wrapping their mind round the meaning of the Incarnation. That does not mean, if they struggle with the idea, that the devil is tempting them or they are committing a mortal sin. It simply means that a finite being, struggling with the concept of Total Other is going to have times where they simply do not know what that means; they can repeat a definition but it has null value.

Fight with you? I don’t need to fight with you. I would suggest that you try a little bit of caution before you fire off such a salvo, particularly since your understanding of moral theology seems in need of further work. Your response that his comment is sign of a mortal sin, as well as missing the point, is entirely overly simplistic.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

I didn’t loose any cool at all. I just don’t have a whole lot of patience for people who go around spouting off that such and such is a mortal sin, as if they were some expert in moral theology. Sitting on a sanctimonious high horse and spouting off that such and such is a sin is a poor starting place in terms of dealing with a 13 year old. And contrary to your view of the moral universe, not all doubts come from the devil.

Something is at play, and the odds are, if this kid is actually 13, that he is not a flaming atheist. It is far more likely that something else is afoot, with a greater chance that it has to do with family dynamics than it does with God. The vast majority of 13 year olds have at best a hazy understanding of what the term “God” means, whether or not they can repeat word for word what the Baltimore Catechism says. Most adults trained reasonably well in theology have a hard time wrapping their mind round the meaning of the Incarnation. That does not mean, if they struggle with the idea, that the devil is tempting them or they are committing a mortal sin. It simply means that a finite being, struggling with the concept of Total Other is going to have times where they simply do not know what that means; they can repeat a definition but it has null value.

Fight with you? I don’t need to fight with you. I would suggest that you try a little bit of caution before you fire off such a salvo, particularly since your understanding of moral theology seems in need of further work. Your response that his comment is sign of a mortal sin, as well as missing the point, is entirely overly simplistic.

Ok, so you’re saying I sounded like some expert in moral theology, yet you sounded like you were trying to be one in this post. So it’s ok for you to give your opinion on this matter, but I can’t without sounding like a know-it-all? Double standards. I suggest you stop replying to my posts if you’re going to attempt to engage in fights with me on almost every thread.