Please Help w Divorce Question Husband Alcoholic

  • Thread starter Thread starter mammallama
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

mammallama

Guest
I am in the process of coming back to the Church.But in order to be able to receive all the Sacrements I need to have my current marriage(12 yrs) recognized by the Church.When I spoke to my priest he asked me if I intended to stay with “Joe” or not.I said I wasn’t so sure if this is a good relationship or not.Husband is a non-believer and an alcoholic.I understand that alcoholism in itself is not a valid reason for a Catholic annulment,which is what I would have to obtain since we were married by a Protsn minister.“Joe” is a very miserable person who only gets worse when he drinks.I’ve asked him to get help (as I did 17 years ago) but of course “he” doesn’t have a problem and wouldn’t drink so much if the house was cleaner or the boss wasn’t on his case etc etc.I pray for him every day and night.I pray that his heart may be “softened” by the power of The Holy Spirit.I offer up my suffering to Our Lord.And I ask God to give me even the smallest of signs:"Oh what do I do?"Is this mean and hateful man my “cross to bare”?I have no interest in getting re-married.I just want to practice my Faith without his constant negativity.Is it better to stay in an awlful relationship and suffer for The Lord or move on so that I might spend my time in prayer and actually doing SOMETHING that might benefit the poor or homeless or sick or who/whatever?:confused:
 
the pastor’s question was the lead-in for more counselling before you decide to proceed with convalidation of your marriage. I assume, although you do not state it, that you married outside the Church while you were away, and now need to regularize that marriage before receiving the sacraments. (if you are a Catholic who married outside the church annulment is not ordinarily an issue, nor would it be should you ever divorce, the marriage would be declared invalid due to lack of form). Being married by a protestant minister is not relevant.

the priest’s question is the beginning of a realistic, honest and probably painful discussion and meditation on your part about whether or not conditions for a valid marriage exist in your case. Since it is possible problems such as alcoholism if existing at the time of marriage, and personality problems that may coincide, make it unlikely the person is able to give full, free informed consent, the issue must be addressed squarely, with the help of a referral to professional counselling for yourself if indicated.

the next step is continued dialogue with the priest.
 
“Husbands, love your wives and treat them with gentleness.” [Colossians 3:19]
That’s not happening.

“Give way to one another in obedience to Christ. Wives should regard their husband as they do the Lord…Husbands should love their wives just as Christ loved the Church…each one of you must love his wife as he loves himself;"

That isn’t happening

and let every wife respect her husband.” [Ephesians 5:21, 25, 33]

And neither is that because it’s not possible I think for you to respect someone who acts as he does.
He is ill, though, but unfortunately doesn’t see that or want help.

I can’t answer your question. The temptation is to say leave such a negative, destructive person. I know my priest would say, “God means us to be happy.”

When is a marriage a marriage. Not as often as it’s supposed to be for, “Have you not read that from the beginning, the creator made them male and female and this is why a man must leave father and mother, and cling to his wife, and the two become one body? They are no longer two, therefore, but one body. So, then, what God has united, man must not divide.” [Matthew 19:4-6]

But what does it take to make them one? Are they one when there is so much that doesn’t fulfil the Sacrament?

Another scripture isn’t totally relevant yet in it’s way important:The “unbelieving husband is made one with the saints through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made one with the saints through her husband. If this were not so, your children would be unclean, whereas in fact they are holy.” [1Corinthians. 7:16, 14]

I know you long for a definite answer and a definite sign. I wish I could give you one. Most of us can’t stand too much of the above treatment but some of us have for many years.
I have two sisters who left their first husbands for painful reasons, and have received annulments and remarried very happily. But I can’t answer what’s right for you. I do not wish you the torture of your present life with your husband, but only God can answer what is right for you, I think.

I will pray for you though, that you will find a clear answer and that you will have the grace and courage to live the life God hopes for you. And I’ll pray for your husband’s healing, which is in two parts, his alcholism, and the personality illness that he has.

I am very regretful you have such a difficult life and such a difficult dilemma. Please keep in touch. God bless you, Trishie

Please don’t rush into decisions that you may soon regret. I had my marriage convalidated, and wept when I had to sign the papers…I didn’t feel I had a choice because I wanted to receive the Sacramenta…and my husband left again the next year. He came. he went, he’s still here! Annie’s post is very wise.
 
Thankyou PuzzleAnnie for your reply.Here’s a bit more info.According to my pastor,since “joe” and I were married by a minister I would have to go through some “lengthy process” should I obtain a civil divorce then wish to receive the Sacraments.I have talked to my priest several times and he suggested I speak to my therapist which I have on many occasions .No one really wants to come right out and say"yes,stay" or “no,get a divorce”.This has been going on for 6 months and still I’m no closer to a decision.If religion were not part of the equation then I would leave this control-freak -mean natured man.I guess I really need to figure out if God’s Law requires that I stay or if this was never really a true marriage from the get-go.
 
I think it’s the letter of the law and the *spirit *of the law. In the true spirit of marrriage I don’t think such marriages are marriages in the spirit of what God means by marriage eg in the scriptures I quoted. But it remains a decision that only you can take.
 
Not as a way to in any way suggest what you should do but as a point of clarification:

Divorce does not mean you cannot receive the Sacraments. Only remarriage after divorce creates a situation where you are not properly disposed for the Sacraments.

Convalidation requires the same conditions that an original, valid Catholic marriage does. It cannot be entered into without a committment to the permanancy of the marriage.

Keep the discussions going with your priest.
 
Thank you all so much for your kind words.And in response to Corki I need to say that this is not my first marriage.Was married in a civil ceremony 20+ yrs ago,recieved a divorce after 5 yrs when he nearly beat me to death.And it’s when I quit drinking and went into therapy. Guess I just keep hooking up with guys like my dear ol’ Dad.
 
May I weigh in here also?

I do not want to add to your confusion.

If you do need to get a divorce in order to protect yourself from harm and your assets from being squandered, your decision to live a celibate life would allow you to be in full communion with The Holy Mother Church.

My mother got divorced long before it was fashionable - in 1961 - and made the decision that it did not matter what my father did with his life, she was going to live and raise her children in the Catholic Faith.

My father remarried. When his wife died, he was all alone - except for me and my mother. Because of the example she set, he returned to the Holy Mother Church - 10 days before he died of heart failure.

We rejoiced…it was so fabulous to see this man return Home to Rome before he was called Home to Our Lord.

I would start to prepare for a new life, if I were you!
 
mammallama said:
Thankyou PuzzleAnnie for your reply.Here’s a bit more info.According to my pastor,since “joe” and I were married by a minister I would have to go through some “lengthy process” should I obtain a civil divorce then wish to receive the Sacraments.I have talked to my priest several times and he suggested I speak to my therapist which I have on many occasions .No one really wants to come right out and say"yes,stay" or “no,get a divorce”.This has been going on for 6 months and still I’m no closer to a decision.If religion were not part of the equation then I would leave this control-freak -mean natured man.I guess I really need to figure out if God’s Law requires that I stay or if this was never really a true marriage from the get-go.
Click to expand...
It’s not really up to someone else to say -yes,stay or no get a divorce. This is a decision you must make. As of right now you are in an invalid marriage which means in the eyes of the church you are not married so why is “religion” holding you in this relationship? If you were Catholic before getting married and were married in a non-Catholic church (or cival ceremony) than your marriage is considered invalid as puzzleannie said due to “lack of form”. Such a declaration of nullity should be much less lengthy to obtain than other types.

If you were to obtain a convalidation for your marriage making it valid would you be freely consenting to marry “Joe” at this time? Meaning at this time would you chose to marry him? If the answer is no, I do not see how you could receive a valid convalidation. You have to remember because you married outside the church (presuming you had been Catholic since you say you are returning to the church) you are not yet married according to the church at this time.
 
🤷
mammallama said:
Thankyou PuzzleAnnie for your reply.Here’s a bit more info.According to my pastor,since “joe” and I were married by a minister I would have to go through some “lengthy process” should I obtain a civil divorce then wish to receive the Sacraments.I have talked to my priest several times and he suggested I speak to my therapist which I have on many occasions .No one really wants to come right out and say"yes,stay" or “no,get a divorce”.This has been going on for 6 months and still I’m no closer to a decision.If religion were not part of the equation then I would leave this control-freak -mean natured man.I guess I really need to figure out if God’s Law requires that I stay or if this was never really a true marriage from the get-go.
Click to expand...
I don’t get it. Why exactly do you feel that ‘religion’ requires you to stay with an abusive spouse or partner? I dont’ know of any religion that requires this, and certainly not the Catholic church. Quite the contrary - you have a duty to look after your mental and physical wellbeing and for this reason more likely have a duty to leave.

Wouldn’t the marriage need to be investigated for validity just the same whether you go or stay? Assuming that you form a new relationship, of course - otherwise it has no bearing whatsoever on your ability to receive the sacraments.

I’m completely puzzled as to how you are actually gaining anything in any way by staying. 🤷
 
mammallama said:
Thank you all so much for your kind words.And in response to Corki I need to say that this is not my first marriage.Was married in a civil ceremony 20+ yrs ago,recieved a divorce after 5 yrs when he nearly beat me to death.And it’s when I quit drinking and went into therapy. Guess I just keep hooking up with guys like my dear ol’ Dad.
Click to expand...
In this case you could not get your current marriage convalidated until your first marriage had received a decree of nullity. Was your first marriage in the Catholic church?
 
MamaLlama, have you considered Al-Anon? You would find other women there who are or were in your situation. Their experience can help you make up your mind.

The Church will not condemn a divorce if it is for the protection of yourself and your children, physically, mentally, or financially. Which tells me Jesus does not expect someone to stay in an abusive marriage.

Keep talking to your priest. In the meantime, I’ll be praying for you, and also for your hubby to “hit bottom” and get sober. May God’s will be done in your life!

Ruthie
 
MamaLlama, have you considered Al-Anon? You would find other women there who are or were in your situation. Their experience can help you make up your mind.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response Ruthie.I myself quit drinking years and years ago.And am well versed in the 12 step methods.My AA buddies are great people but none are Roman Catholic.And Al-Anon is often times leary of us AA people and honestly,I can see their point…There seems to be a big old void out there…for good solid Catholic advice…My therapist is not the religious sort as one might imagine.When I try to discuss problems he like to give clinical answers without regard to one’s religion.AA and Al-Anon certainly have a religious angle to them,but again their mantra is "Take care of yourself first"Yet I have always been taught(in church) to think of my needs last.
Click to expand...
 
Al-Anon for us recovering alkies can be very difficult…we are taught in AA to think of ourselves less rather than less of ourselves. I know that looking at the traditions of AA helped me with the outside world much more than the other.

I have been sober in AA for 16 years. If you want to PM me, please feel free.
 
OK, MamaLlama, dear! I’ve got a few years under my belt, too.

If he’s a danger to your sobriety - get out!

Hugs,

Ruthie
 
Ruthie…Thanks again for continuing the dialog…You know the really crazy part is that living with a man who drinks helps me to see how horrible I WAS.And now thru these posts I’m beginning to wonder if now I’m just an enabler??When we first met “Joe” was a light drinker around me at least.It has been only within the past 6 or 7 years that he has taken to drowning his sorrows in the bottle.I look at him with pity and think"There but for the grace of God…I’m not sure if he’s a danger to my sobriety,or the reason for it…how messed up is that?!

And to LSK…Thank you to for your encouragement… And what exactly does “PM me” mean?My brain is mush today.
 
Private message.

You can access all the PM features from your “Profile”. Let me know if you aren’t sure how to access this feature.

And you have my thoughts and prayers that God’s Will prevails in your situation.
 
mammallama said:
Ruthie…Thanks again for continuing the dialog…You know the really crazy part is that living with a man who drinks helps me to see how horrible I WAS.And now thru these posts I’m beginning to wonder if now I’m just an enabler??When we first met “Joe” was a light drinker around me at least.It has been only within the past 6 or 7 years that he has taken to drowning his sorrows in the bottle.I look at him with pity and think"There but for the grace of God…I’m not sure if he’s a danger to my sobriety,or the reason for it…how messed up is that?!

And to LSK…Thank you to for your encouragement… And what exactly does “PM me” mean?My brain is mush today.
Click to expand...
PM means ‘private message’ and I should have explained that to you, I apologize.

Ruthie is right, you know…if this man puts your sobriety in danger then you need to go.

What I think you are asking, and forgive me if I am wrong, is whether or not you can be a faithful obedient daughter of the Holy Mother Church if you get a divorce from ‘Joe’. The answer, my sister, is yes you can. It means looking to the Church for guidance rather than the world. It means you may be lonely and you may be scared sometimes, but you know from your sobriety that not all our feelings are reality AND no matter if it is good stuff or bad stuff, this too shall pass…right, Ruthie?

You are in my prayers. I am going to include Joe in my nightly prayer to Venerable Matt Talbot, that he find sobriety and God, in that order!
 
mammallama said:
If religion were not part of the equation then I would leave this control-freak -mean natured man.
Click to expand...
As a woman who divorced, and who is now in the process of annuling a marriage to a control-freak-mean natured man, let me asure you that for ME, it was the best thing I could have ever done. His vows to me were broken long ago. There was no partnership. There was no trust. There was no respect. There was no “we”.

You sound so beaten down, my friend. Lift yourself up. God knows your heart. He sees how hard you have tried. It takes two, and he is not willing to even acknowledge his problem…so how can it ever get any better?

I will pray for the both of you. I know that 99% of the forum is going to try to talk you into staying the course. I guess I will be that 1%. God Bless You.
 
AND no matter if it is good stuff or bad stuff, this too shall pass…right, Ruthie?

Right, LSK!

I am praying both that he find sobriety and that you make the right decision for you.

You’ve got a lot of wisdom. I never thought that living with a practicing alkie could help my own sobriety! Not that I’d volunteer for it, mind you…

Yes, do check yourself over for enabling. It’s possible that just staying with him is enabling him.

Hugs,

Ruthie
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top