Please help!

[Just_Deb]

And now accusations? I don’t know what I expected when I came here, but not this. Here is the addy of our diocesan newspaper. upcatholic.org/ Check the archives, then ask if I’m exaggerating. Regarding the priest, 200 miles away, at the other end of our diocese: If you knew this person you would not be at all surprised. He was not adding to gossip. It was a gut reaction to what she did to him 12 years ago. And the priest after him, and now our current pastor. How does she hold sway? She does the work of ten people, she is very efficient and organized, but her motives are self-serving. No, I don’t think she is necessarily evil, but she is terribly broken, will not seek help and refuses to submit to ANY authority. She has even said that she prays to God and skips the middle man-Jesus. She does nothing out of love, but out of priestitis. She seeks attention, good, bad or otherwise. And because she seeks it, she will never be satisfied. She HAS to do everything because no one else, including the pastor (in her eyes) is qualified. As soon as you show signs of having an opinion of your own, she moves on to the next group of people to whom she previously would not give the time of day. When they get wise to her, she moves on to the next group. She’s running out of options as we are a small parish of 800 families. Admittedly, there is a fine line between gossiping and trying to find a remedy for bad situation. But save your judgements, only God knows our hearts and He will judge us based on our motive. BTW, how do you know so much about Dan Brown?

st_felicity:

This seems so over the top. Priests dying, one committing suicide, others leaving under suspicious circumstances and sexual accusations? Are you exaggerating at all? **It sounds like a bad Dan Brown novel! **–I can’t imagine a priest 200 miles away, no names, and he recognizes the situation and in the confessional adds to the gossip? I guess I’m just spoiled by our super parish priest.

If she’s so obviously nuts how does she hold sway? Where does she get her “power” (other than from the evil one ). And how do you know you would have support–has there been a lot of gossiping?

 

[Just_Deb]

We’ve tried that. She is apologetic for the moment, then she becomes petulant and behaves even worse, coming into daily Mass chronically late, sometimes even after the homily, throwing her purse down, jangling her keys, then dropping them on the terrazzo! It seems that she does it intentionally to annoy people. She sits alone, right up in front, in the side chairs next to the predella, like she’s on stage, and we all get to watch her tie her shoes or apply her chapstick and hand lotion during the consecration, and check her watch a dozen times. Did I mention she’s almost 60 years old, lives with her parents and controls their every move, as well? Her unhappiness comes from within and it will follow her wherever she goes until she acquaints herself with the ‘H’ word. (Humility) She literally chokes on the words meek and humble and submissive. You have no idea how many people are praying for her, but you know that pesky free will thing. Even God won’t go where He’s not invited.

littleitaly:

I would get together with other parish members who are equally disturbed over her behavior and approach her peacably maybe she should look for another parish because she is no longer welcome at yours (as a group) Jesus said when more then one prays for help their prayer will surely be heard. Look at it this way, The Holy Spirit would not allow Satan to enter Heaven with his evil ways, neither should we let one to enter a sacred house of God to do likewise. Let her know that you will continue to pray for her for whatever it is that makes her act in such a way. I will pray for her getting better as well. God Bless and Peace

 

[Scullinius]

Well, if she won’t submit to ANY authority, even the bishop…

If this were my business, and she were my employee, I’d fire her and change all the locks and passwords. And maybe the accounts too! It almost sounds like the only real solution would be a physical one – have her physically removed and physically banned from the property.

That’s impossible, of course. If your pastor doesn’t take of it once and for all, you have no choice but to go the bishop. I would get the help of a canon lawyer, if possible, and be prepared to cite relevant canon law governing parish administration. Maybe if this woman is stripped of all authority, she’ll be at least somewhat less of a problem.

It’s easy for me to say what I would do if I were the bishop, and I realize that bishops have a lot to deal with, but this is ridiculous. If the pastor can’t (or worse – won’t) get a grip on this, he should be transferred. After this woman is stripped of all authority and access to the parish offices.

I’m still amazed that none of these “Knights” of Columbus are willing to take a leadership role in this.

 

[Just_Deb]

Yes, it does sound ‘incredible’. And I would never have believed it unless I’d seen it with my own eyes. Incidentally, this person has the same authority problem at the hospital where she works and is treading on thin ice there, too. Not gossip. I worked there before I got hurt. She intimidates the weak and ticks off and alienates the strong. She has no real friends and her entire life revolves around work and the church. It’s sad and nobody wants to hurt her, but it seems inevitable. Father acknowleges the problem, but is totally nonconfrontational, so he keeps quoting, the scripture about the shepherd, leaving his flock to go after the one that strayed. (Nevermind what happens to the rest of the flock.) I don’t know if she has any other hold over him, although she has accused him of some horrible things when he’d made her mad. My friend, what you have proposed here, is exactly what I had in mind. Spreading the work around will not be a problem. Her actual function is to stand around with a clipboard telling everyone else what to do. There are scads of good and willing people who would be glad to pitch in, provided that they were treated with a little respect, and there are people far more qualified then she, to teach. Nobody respects her, but she brought it upon herself.
Island Oak:

I find the situation you describe as fairly incredible–in the sense that one woman has so totally intimidated so many people including it would seem the priest.

However, in the event that this is sincere and not hyperbole, I would suggest the following: carefully select and contact a group of individuals (say 6) who enjoy the respect of the parish and have the abilty to act in a leadership capacity. Being careful to avoid personal attacks and/or gossip, discuss this situation in a private forum to determine an approach to confronting this individual. Identify specific concerns and be prepared to offer examples of situations where her conduct has caused concern/conflict among the members of the parish. You must also prepare a plan for the future which spreads the responsibilites in the parish out among other members. Then, with the parish priest and any other relevant parish authority, schedule a meeting which includes woman, present to her the issues of concern as well as the group-authored proposal to “divest” her of some of the authority she has taken upon herself. This will be an uncomfortable process, but if she is as belligerant as you suggest, a group encounter is your only hope of turning this ship around.

 

[betra2000]

Mysty101:

Deb,
I am just wondering—why did you post in such a “screaming” font? The original internet forums would ban people who posted in such a rude manner.

Perhaps the other lady is not the only one who is out of line?

Can we stay focused here. Why on earth are you speaking of the way she is typing? My word, lets get back on the subject.

 

[Scullinius]

Just Deb:

Father acknowleges the problem, but is totally nonconfrontational, so he keeps quoting, the scripture about the shepherd, leaving his flock to go after the one that strayed. (Nevermind what happens to the rest of the flock.)

Then remind Father that the shepherd has TWO jobs:

1. Keep the sheep together so they don’t get lost,

and

1. Keep the wolves away from the sheep!

His mistake is that he thinks he’s dealing with a sheep, but actually, he’s dealing with a wolf!

 

[st_felicity]

Just Deb:

And now accusations? I don’t know what I expected when I came here, but not this. Here is the addy of our diocesan newspaper. upcatholic.org/ Check the archives, then ask if I’m exaggerating. Regarding the priest, 200 miles away, at the other end of our diocese: If you knew this person you would not be at all surprised. He was not adding to gossip. It was a gut reaction to what she did to him 12 years ago. And the priest after him, and now our current pastor. How does she hold sway? She does the work of ten people, she is very efficient and organized, but her motives are self-serving. No, I don’t think she is necessarily evil, but she is terribly broken, will not seek help and refuses to submit to ANY authority. She has even said that she prays to God and skips the middle man-Jesus. She does nothing out of love, but out of priestitis. She seeks attention, good, bad or otherwise. And because she seeks it, she will never be satisfied. She HAS to do everything because no one else, including the pastor (in her eyes) is qualified. As soon as you show signs of having an opinion of your own, she moves on to the next group of people to whom she previously would not give the time of day. When they get wise to her, she moves on to the next group. She’s running out of options as we are a small parish of 800 families. Admittedly, there is a fine line between gossiping and trying to find a remedy for bad situation. But save your judgements, only God knows our hearts and He will judge us based on our motive. BTW, how do you know so much about Dan Brown?

Settle down Deb…Can’t you see how much power you are giving this woman? Step back and read your posts as someone outside your parish who is not experiencing what you are…

Okay, deep breath…

I did not “accuse” you of anything–I said it seems over the top. I can accept that weird things happen–there is no accusation there–it is strange and awful–I’m sure you would agree.

Secondly–If she is a broken person–she needs love, not the high level of anxiety that you clearly have. I, for one, hope that priests would recognize this even if their gut reaction would be to blurt something uncharitable (especially if they’ve had 12 years to consider her sad state).

When people are jockeying for position and arranging power plays to combat an individual’s hostility, it does not surprise me that the person in question only hunkers down in hostility. Have you tried playing to her ego? Have you tried “appealing to her expertise”?Have you used the clever language Our Lord did when questioned by Pilate–“you say so…”. C’mon–Jesus promised the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church–one sad, hurt woman will not bring down Rome!

 

[Just_Deb]

Hey! No doubt! I’ve been pretty much constantly under attack! Last spring, the U.P. Catholic Charismatic Service Team had considered asking our ‘lay minister’ in question, to head up an effort to have a Life in the Spirit Seminar at our parish. They had met both of us at the same time. I’m just an obedient mutt, poor and disabled, and she is well dressed, a smooth talker, and seemed very knowledgeable about the parish. When the time came to approach her, the spokesman was stopped dead in his tracks. He got a distinct word, “Not that one, this one.” Meaning me. He tried to proceed with his original plan but was stopped again. So they asked me. It took 5 months to get Father’s approval and 8 months to make it happen. Two weeks prior to the seminar I was out of town for a prayer meeting and ran across a friend who was in town for a basketball game. A chance meeting? :ehh: She expressed her dismay at having to miss the seminar as she had made a prior commitment for the following weekend. Boy, was she tickled to here that she’d been misinformed about the date of the seminar! When she told me how she’d heard of the date, it was easy to trace the source. In spite of snail mail letters I’d sent to everyone, e-mails, posters and the parish bulletin, all with the correct date, one person speading one bit of misinformation had everyone, even Father convinced of the wrong date. She is on the faith formation board, so she knew the correct date, but the misinformation spread through the LIMEX group and snowballed from there. She was the only common denominator. Busted! In spite of all that, we had twenty candidates. Sadly only ten from our own parish but three women drove 3 1/2 hours to attend! The evil one does not want a new prayer group to start up anywhere, but I think especially in a place where people are willing to submit to the Spirit, so that His light will shine brightly and expose the darkness there. Good will triumph! We had our first prayer meeting Tuesday night. We were all sick but met anyway, and when we got to church we found we’d been evicted from our corner of the basement before we had a chance to even begin! So, yeah, I know all about spiritual warfare! Here is a quote I’d just heard:

“Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down and it functions best when no one believes it exists.”

Scullinius:

Just Deb,

I think the evil one took a break this morning to visit my parish. I said my first Rosary today-- 150 decades – in the church after mass, and when I got home I had the most horrendous headache, along with other weird physical problems. (That almost never happens to me.) I spent most of the day in bed (I feel better now). Co-inky-dink?

If I were in your parish, I’d stand up to the plate with you. This priest you speak of… is he the pastor? Pastors are supposed to exercise leadership. Come to think of it, so are KCs.

I think Island Oak gives good advice. I think that you (and the others) have an obligation to take action. I will pray for you in my next Rosary – evil one or no!

 

[st_felicity]

Deb–Please step out of yourself and read the things you are writing–I am appealing to your reason…

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

st_felicity:

Deb–Please step out of yourself and read the things you are writing–I am appealing to your reason…

Sadly,St.felicity my brother has the same personality traits as deb is describing.Deb it is an antisocial behavior disorder,an extreme need for attention regardless of what means you go to in order to get it.I had to get away from my own brother for my soul and sanity,I would suggest you do the same.My brother wanted to be the center of all he would lie set you up start rumors,he did it to other people as well.He almost broke up my marriage,my son who was 15 years old had a nervous breakdown because he was doing it to him as well.I would get away from the situation for your own good.I pray for my brother and love him,but you can not let them consume your life.Pray for their deliverence,and get away from it ,it just isn’t worth being pulled into their antics.God Bless

 

[Just_Deb]

Well, most of the Knights were pretty much clueless until this weekend. We had our annual major fundraiser for the school and the Knights do all the cooking, so they saw her in action and she was in particularly rare form. She was hoarding cupcakes and meatballs and went around telling everyone that they HAD to wear gloves because an inspector was coming. I know how absurd this all sounds, but it was a regular side show! first of all, it’s a non profit gig, so no inspectors, but she has a weird germ phobia. Second, why should she have any say over the freaking meatballs! Thirdly, five of us turned out 618 meals for the homebound and she wanted to give them generic dried up old storebought cookies, so she was actually hiding the cupcakes to save them for the people coming to dine in. If she treated people humanely, there would have been plenty to go around, so instead we had to send out hunter/gatherers to steal cupcakes for the old people! It was actually quite fun! And easy. The fundraiser is an Italian theme so Father, who is a gifted musician, played Italian songs on the piano all weekend. Everytime he played a love song, or what she perceived to be a love song, she was glued to his side, leaning over his shoulder singing in his ear. She created quite a stir, and you could tell that Father was embarrassed. And if anyone, male or female went near him she’d make a bee line over there and squeeze right between them. Curious, no? Anyway, she kept saying there were no more cupcakes but everytime a plate went empty, cupcakes mysteriously appeared by her gloved hand, so one of the girls followed her, then everytime she was busy singing to Father, someone would sneak into the boiler room and hijack the forbidden cupcakes. The Knights having to fight her for meatballs was the last straw. In the past she’d avoided the fundraiser but this year she figured out how to be the center of attention. At the end Father thanked the kitchen crew and the dining room crew. One of the Knight’s wives got ticked, went up to Father and told him he forgot to mention the little take out crew of five who put out more than a third of all the meals, compared to the cast of dozens, who did the rest. He very sheepishly come back to the mike and apologized profusely. Oh, and then there was the appreciation gathering for the crew. It seems that the announcement only made it to an elite few as we found out about it when we learned we’d been evicted from our assigned meeting place. Yeah, it’s cruddy but it’s coming to an end. The people want to take back control of their parish and it’s gonna get way ugly. We love our priest and we’ll probably lose him, but it will be for the betterment of the parish as a whole. We did have an associate priest here almost three years ago and he was wise to her. With his support, Padre took her keys away. She was on the verge of getting the axe at the hospital at that time and was seen rocking and tapping her head, repeating over and over, “I have to think. I have to think.” But none of that mattered. Shortly after that the associate was reassigned to a neighboring parish after they’d lost their second priest in two months due to the sex scandal. Then she got her keys back and it’s been down hill ever since.

Scullinius:

Well, if she won’t submit to ANY authority, even the bishop…

If this were my business, and she were my employee, I’d fire her and change all the locks and passwords. And maybe the accounts too! It almost sounds like the only real solution would be a physical one – have her physically removed and physically banned from the property.

That’s impossible, of course. If your pastor doesn’t take of it once and for all, you have no choice but to go the bishop. I would get the help of a canon lawyer, if possible, and be prepared to cite relevant canon law governing parish administration. Maybe if this woman is stripped of all authority, she’ll be at least somewhat less of a problem.

It’s easy for me to say what I would do if I were the bishop, and I realize that bishops have a lot to deal with, but this is ridiculous. If the pastor can’t (or worse – won’t) get a grip on this, he should be transferred. After this woman is stripped of all authority and access to the parish offices.

I’m still amazed that none of these “Knights” of Columbus are willing to take a leadership role in this.

 

[Just_Deb]

Oh, honey, you don’t know the half of it! I see you’re in Michigan, too. How about popping over here to see for yourself? Kindly do not judge what you do not know and count your blessings that you haven’t had to deal with any of this.

st_felicity:

Deb–Please step out of yourself and read the things you are writing–I am appealing to your reason…

 

[Just_Deb]

Thank you for the validation. I was a nurse, by trade, before my injury, with psych experience, so it was apparent right away what was going on. Father knows of the accusations she made, which were nothing but lies, but they could mean big trouble for him if she decides to put on her vindictive face. She won’t allow herself to go down alone.

Lisa4Catholics:

Sadly,St.felicity my brother has the same personality traits as deb is describing.Deb it is an antisocial behavior disorder,an extreme need for attention regardless of what means you go to in order to get it.I had to get away from my own brother for my soul and sanity,I would suggest you do the same.My brother wanted to be the center of all he would lie set you up start rumors,he did it to other people as well.He almost broke up my marriage,my son who was 15 years old had a nervous breakdown because he was doing it to him as well.I would get away from the situation for your own good.I pray for my brother and love him,but you can not let them consume your life.Pray for their deliverence,and get away from it ,it just isn’t worth being pulled into their antics.God Bless

 

[Scullinius]

Just Deb:

The fundraiser is an Italian theme so Father, who is a gifted musician, played Italian songs on the piano all weekend. Everytime he played a love song, or what she perceived to be a love song, she was glued to his side, leaning over his shoulder singing in his ear. She created quite a stir, and you could tell that Father was embarrassed. And if anyone, male or female went near him she’d make a bee line over there and squeeze right between them. Curious, no?

I’m sorry, but getting schmoozy like that with a priest is just plain disgusting.

By the way, did you know that the English word “schmooze” comes from the German verb “schmusen,” which means “to cuddle”? It’s true. So the next time your spouse calls and you say you’re schmoozing with your office “mates” – think twice! :bigyikes:

 

[Scullinius]

Just Deb:

The Knights having to fight her for meatballs was the last straw.

Well, if THAT doesn’t mobilize them, they’re hopeless.

 

[Just_Deb]

Precisely. And he knows it. You can see the sadness in his eyes when she is on a particularly bad mean streak. Then He says, “God will take care of it in His own time”, to which I replied, “But Father, sometimes God gives us the tools and expects US to pick them up and use them!” Sort of like the man caught in a flood who eventually drowned, saying, “God will take care of me!” When he reached the pearly gates, he asked God why He didn’t save him and God responded, “I sent you two boats and a helicopter! What more did you want?”

Scullinius:

Then remind Father that the shepherd has TWO jobs:

1. Keep the sheep together so they don’t get lost,

and

1. Keep the wolves away from the sheep!

His mistake is that he thinks he’s dealing with a sheep, but actually, he’s dealing with a wolf!

 

[st_felicity]

You are just gossiping–look at all your titillating little details–how petty!

Lisa–it’s not just the “evil one” with the antisocial need for attention…

I’m done, before I go all uncharitable on her…

 

[Scullinius]

Just Deb:

Precisely. And he knows it. You can see the sadness in his eyes when she is on a particularly bad mean streak. Then He says, “God will take care of it in His own time”, to which I replied, “But Father, sometimes God gives us the tools and expects US to pick them up and use them!” Sort of like the man caught in a flood who eventually drowned, saying, “God will take care of me!” When he reached the pearly gates, he asked God why He didn’t save him and God responded, “I sent you two boats and a helicopter! What more did you want?”

Then take it to the bishop. Pull the trigger (so to speak).

 

[Just_Deb]

You think that’s disgusting? At the sign of peace when they hug she holds his head like a man would hold his lover. It’s beyond disgusting. Sometimes I wonder if she’s trying to create scandal to get him pulled out of here because he said she would be hired on staff only over his dead body. It’s a love/hate relationship.

Scullinius:

I’m sorry, but getting schmoozy like that with a priest is just plain disgusting.

By the way, did you know that the English word “schmooze” comes from the German verb “schmusen,” which means “to cuddle”? It’s true. So the next time your spouse calls and you say you’re schmoozing with your office “mates” – think twice! :bigyikes:

 

[rayne89]

st_felicity:

You are just gossiping–look at all your titillating little details–how petty!

Lisa–it’s not just the “evil one” with the antisocial need for attention…

I’m done, before I go all uncharitable on her…

You’re out of line. How is she gossiping if she hasn’t named names. We don’t know this person or this parish. She sounds like she venting some very built up frustration about this whole crazy situation.
st felicity this seems some what out of character for you. Is it possible you’ve had some kind of personal experinece that have made you senisitive to this womens comments.