please help

[Monica4316]

Im sorry this is another thread from me. I don’t know where to go or what to do.

Several days ago I had a powerful spiritual experience where something was telling me to leave the Catholic Church and be Orthodox again. That something called itself God, and felt like God, but wasn’t gentle and loving like I expected… it was very forceful and spoke only to my mind, not to my heart. (though at times, I felt like it might be speaking to my heart too, but I wasn’t sure). After a while of thinking about this, I decided to myself it was demonic. And right when I said these words to myself, - I instantly felt SURE that I had committed the same sin as the Pharisees in Matthew 12…they called something from the Holy Spirit evil and said it’s from a demon. For the next few minutes, I felt that voice again tellling me (once more, very forcefully and vividly) - that God’s plan for me was to be Orthodox, but now Im going to hell for sure because I had blasphemed the Holy Spirit. I was in absolute panic… and then, I somehow turned towards my faith, and suddenly felt a deep peace, and like I’m meant to be Catholic. I was then able to go to sleep, as if nothing had happened. The next day, this presence came back, but I told it to go away in the name of Jesus, and it did. I felt peace and this warm, loving “presence” in me that gave me peace, - I decided it is Jesus who lives in me. Then, I came across a website about Blessed Elizabeth of the Trinity, who described this presence also. And then, I found a prophesy by Our Lady of Good Success where she said that the Papacy is true and predicted how Pope Pius IX would declare the Immaculate Conception and the Infallibility of the Pope to be dogma. I decided that all I was meant to be Catholic after all.

However, I had much difficulty with mental prayer… it seemed that the only thing that gave me peace was focusing on that inner “presence”. Whenever I turned my mind outward to pray, I felt anxiety. So I had much trouble praying the Rosary for some reason. I took that as a bad sign, cause the Rosary is something that should help us against spiritual attack… so I began wondering if maybe that inner “presence” is an illusion or just me feeling my own faith, not Jesus, - and since it told me what I wanted to hear, - I felt peace. I struggled with that… and then for almost the whole night, I felt an absense of Jesus, and like He had left me and doesn’t want me anymore. In the morning I decided to pray the Divine Mercy chaplet at 3 pm for the truth. Whenever I asked God, what church should I be in, I felt in my heart that I should be Catholic…but whenever I asked Him to show me my sins, I felt anxiety and I couldn’t see my sins: I felt like I was in a spiritual blindness of some sort… at first, I thought my sin was distrust, and went with that… and felt contrition for it. But I didn’t receive any light on the unforgiveable sin and all the rest.

Well at 3 pm, something really horrible happened. I honestly don’t know what to do and I think this is it… I was praying the Divine Mercy chaplet cause I felt there’s really something separating me from God… and I felt like I really need humility and contrition for my sins. I started asking Him for this… but I could not see my sins and I felt no repentance still, but a horrible anxiety inside. And as I began to feel more humble before Him, suddenly something was revealed to me. Jesus - and I know it was Jesus, I recognized Him - told me very clearly that I had committed the same sin as the Pharisees in Matthew 12, because I that experience was from the Holy Spirit after all, and I said it is from the devil. And He told me, by labelling something from the Holy Spirit as evil, - I had done something to my soul, and closed myself up to the Holy Spirit… and He told me, this is the one thing for which He CAN’T show Mercy. He said, He is very merciful, but this is the one thing that can’t be taken away, because by this action, the person closes themselves to the Holy Spirit forever and ever - and even if they want to come back, they can’t. I started asking Him to show me His mercy, over and over, and asked Mary to pray for me, but I was ‘told’ that this is impossible…that He would not go back on His Word. I now feel like I’m definitely going to hell and like I’ve lost Jesus. I don’t feel His presence anymore, but before He went away, I felt Him saying just like to the damned “depart from me, you who are accursed”. I tried telling Him that I love Him, and He said, - none of that has any merit now, and none of my prayers have any merit. He said He has forgotten all my love for Him from the past.

 

[Monica4316]

Now I feel nothing except anxiety and Im fairly certain that this is it, I have ruined my soul and lost Jesus forever. I don’t understand… I think I was deceived in some way… I think all those scary spiritual experiences I’ve had in the past, they were all warnings for me to go back to Orthodoxy, and I ignored them because after these experiences God always gave me so much consolation…* I dont know why He did this*… Some part of me that still has hope, is trying to believe that there is still mercy, and that perhaps this is all a test and I havent actually done the unforgiveavable sin. But what just happened was so clear that I dont know how I can possibly doubt it. Whenever I try to come back to Jesus, I feel anxiety and like there’s this wall that I can’t get through, and *He’s not reaching back to me… *if this was just a test, why isn’t Jesus coming to me when I pray for Him so desperately? Why has Jesus rejected me? I feel in my soul that He has rejected me and while He was speaking, I could recognize Him… I’m surprised that Im not even in incredible pain, as I would have expected - it’s almost like Jesus doesn’t see a need for this, since I’m already lost. Ive always thought that lost people are spiritually blind, and now i’m spiritually blind too, and my heart feels hardened towards God and like I can’t get to Him. I can’t see the reality of my sins, and I can’t make myself see it. I can’t make myself feel contrition or repentance for anything. But I don’t know why He’s still allowing me to feel faith and like I want to love Him, - but this experience I just had, was SOOOO real, I can’t even describe…it was like I had met Jesus, only now He wasn’t kind and merciful as before, but sorrowful. He felt sorrow that Im in this situation but He can’t do anything cause He can’t go back on His word.

I don’t know if there’s any hope for me… but please, if you can, please say a prayer for me that God would forgive me and bring me back to Himself… and that I would know that I’m back with Him… and that if all this is just a trial, that He would please come back to me and show me, because this is more than I can bear.

I don’t understand… being Catholic gave me so many graces… I told God so many times I love Him, I want to live for Him; I had such beautiful experiences with the Eucharist, and I was ready to be a religious or even a martyr if He wants, I just wanted to serve Him… when I sinned, He always gave me such a clear sense of my sin, and I was able to repent and He always showed me mercy… and now, - I don’t know what to do or how to live. Jesus has told me that He’s left me… I don’t understand why my faith (even faith in His mercy) and hope and love is still intact… could it be that this is just a test and God is supporting me secretly in my soul? But He TOLD me the truth…and I can’t find repentance, I can’t find contrition for sin, and I can’t get back to Him. I’m so scared of dying…I always hoped that when I would die, I would see my Jesus and He would embrace me… now, He would tell me, to go into the eternal fire because I’m an evildoer.

I feel that what I have done, in rejecting that the experience was from the Holy Spirit, has closed me off to His work and grace and repentance forever… even though I WANT repentance, even though I told Jesus that I am now ready and willing to accept that experience and that I had not rejected it because of any malice towards God, but misunderstanding. I repented, but He still didn’t accept me.

 

[Monica4316]

here are some of my questions

if God tells a person to do something, but the experience of Him telling them this is very forceful and causes anxiety, so they decide it is demonic, - if it really is from God, have they done the unforgiveable sin by calling the work of the Holy Spirit evil? (like the Pharisees in Matthew 12). Will God not forgive them even if they repent? What if they want to repent, and seek repentance, but can’t seem to find the feelings of contrition, - and they feel anxiety and like something is blocking them from God, - does that mean that they’ve done the sin and God is now not giving them repentance?

what if they feel really strongly that their sin is unforgiveable, and when they tried praying for forgiveness, they had the distinct impression of God telling them that they can’t be forgiven - because He can’t go back on His Word? is it God telling them this?

now - last question - what if they still have faith and hope, somewhere deep inside, and still want to love God… does that mean that this is all just a trial, because they still have God’s graces in them?

I still have love for God in my will… but I feel NOTHING.

I have no idea what the truth is…I feel SOO much anxiety inside…

 

[InLight247]

I repented, but He still didn’t accept me.

That is not Jesus.

Monica, you really need to talk to your spiritual director, online opinions will not do you too much good.

God bless!

 

[DCNBILL]

Monica, My prayers are with you. Please note that confusion, doubt, and feelings that are related to these types of things do not come from God but from the evil one. I understand that God has given you much grace and consoliation in your recent life. I believe that He gives us these things as small treasures that we can keep in our hearts and reflect back upon when we are in times of testing and pain such as you seem to be at the moment. Instead of trying to make decisions on if you have been right or wrong or if you should have gone this way or that remember one thing. God and your belief and love of Him has brought you to the point where you are, through what seems to have been a grace filled experience. Do not let a time of temtation rob you of the peace that you know that you have in your heart, that knowledge that you love God and He loves you and has proved this to you. Rest your doubts in his hands and let His mercy guide you by reflecting on the gems that He has bestowed upon you.

Confusion and doubt comes from the evil one.

Peace and Love from our almighty God, Lord and Savior.

 

[Student09]

Dear Monica,

It was not Jesus, no matter how certain you were. We cannot make these judgments ourselves.

St. Teresa, under obedience to her confessor, made obscene gestures at actual apparitions of Jesus. She knew it was Jesus and she cried over having to do it, but He told her that she was doing the right thing because her confessor had told her to. That should give you a better idea of what Jesus is like.

YOU ARE TRUSTING TOO MUCH IN YOUR OWN JUDGMENT ABOUT THESE THINGS. Please talk to a priest and a counselor.

 

[Monica4316]

That is not Jesus.

Monica, you really need to talk to your spiritual director, online opinions will not do you too much good.

God bless!

I will speak to my priest… but Jesus, if it was Him, - said that He IS merciful, but His hands are tied here.

It’s like… you know how in all the private revelations to the Saints, it says that Jesus is merciful now, but the time will run out and if we refuse to pass through the door of Mercy we will pass through the door of Justice? Well I feel that because of what I had done, I had closed the door of Mercy for me… and now there’s only that other door left. I have ruined my soul I just don’t understand how…I didn’t hate God at all, I loved Him sincerely, even with my sins… I still love Him! how could it be that I blasphemed the Holy Spirit unknowingly? But then, didn’t the Pharisees also do this unknowingly? they thought they were serving God too… I’m so scared of dying…my greatest hope was always to meet Jesus, and now I am afraid.

Monica, My prayers are with you. Please note that confusion, doubt, and feelings that are related to these types of things do not come from God but from the evil one. I understand that God has given you much grace and consoliation in your recent life. I believe that He gives us these things as small treasures that we can keep in our hearts and reflect back upon when we are in times of testing and pain such as you seem to be at the moment. Instead of trying to make decisions on if you have been right or wrong or if you should have gone this way or that remember one thing. God and your belief and love of Him has brought you to the point where you are, through what seems to have been a grace filled experience. Do not let a time of temtation rob you of the peace that you know that you have in your heart, that knowledge that you love God and He loves you and has proved this to you. Rest your doubts in his hands and let His mercy guide you by reflecting on the gems that He has bestowed upon you.

Confusion and doubt comes from the evil one.

Peace and Love from our almighty God, Lord and Savior.

but the problem is that while that voice was speaking, I didn’t feel any confusion, it felt very clear… it was just the worst possible thing that could happen… but right now, I do feel confused, because I feel that anxiety in my senses, but also this strange peace in my heart, which I think now might be an illusion… that ‘voice’ was SO clear! and it came right when I was asking God for mercy at 3 pm… if none of this is true, why didn’t Jesus reach out to me? Is He testing me? Why did He choose the worst most painful test for me, that I could even imagine?

 

[Monica4316]

Dear Monica,

It was not Jesus, no matter how certain you were. We cannot make these judgments ourselves.

St. Teresa, under obedience to her confessor, made obscene gestures at actual apparitions of Jesus. She knew it was Jesus and she cried over having to do it, but He told her that she was doing the right thing because her confessor had told her to. That should give you a better idea of what Jesus is like.

YOU ARE TRUSTING TOO MUCH IN YOUR OWN JUDGMENT ABOUT THESE THINGS. Please talk to a priest and a counselor.

I will speak to a priest…definitely… the experience was just so vivid, I don’t know how to get over this.

if this ‘voice’ wasn’t God, why isn’t He giving me repentance and contrition for sin, like I begged Him to? Could it be because I actually hadn’t sinned in that particular case, and the devil is just confusing me with feelings of guilt? I do feel guilt… but no true repentance and humility, which I get when I have real sin. I’ve repented of all my other sins…I don’t understand… I don’t know how to tell what the truth is.

 

[ttk5972]

Monica,

STOP going with your feelings. That is where Satan is most powerful. Go speak with a priest as soon as possible.

I’ll be praying for you.

 

[Monica4316]

Monica,

STOP going with your feelings. That is where Satan is most powerful. Go speak with a priest as soon as possible.

I’ll be praying for you.

I will try… thank you for your prayers.

In my will I still love God and have faith in Him and in the Church… I don’t understand, - how can I be closed off to God’s grace (as in the unforgiveable sin) if in my will I still have those things? can I be one way in my will, and another way in my heart and soul?

 

[St_Francis]

Monica,
The unforgivable sin is *final *unrepentance. IOW, if you persist in turning away from God until the moment of death, that final sin cannot be forgiven.

Since you seem to still be with us, I would disregard all of that.

St Francis de Sales says that if we are praying mental prayer and find that our focus is more on just experiencing God rather than on what we have thought about meditating about, that it is better to allow that movement than to try to get back to your meditation, because that experiencing is a higher form of prayer.

HTH!

 

[dusza]

St. John of the Cross, the great mystical doctor wrote that if you initally feel good during a supernatural experience, but are soon left with fear and doubt, that’s the negative fruit of a demonic experience (just like sin feels good initially, but leaves a sour taste). Genuine experiences of God will make you tremble, but leave you with peace and a greater zeal for God. Don’t quote me, because I’m paraphrasing from old memory.

As others said, talk to a priest, and heed his advice (even if it’s hard to follow). Obedience is a virtue and virtues are not what Satan wants from you.

 

[the_hazel_nut]

I will try… thank you for your prayers.

In my will I still love God and have faith in Him and in the Church… I don’t understand, - how can I be closed off to God’s grace (as in the unforgiveable sin) if in my will I still have those things? can I be one way in my will, and another way in my heart and soul?

I have to go to work now but just a few words of encouragement before I go.

It is my understanding that in Catholicism blasphemy against the holy spirit, aka the unforgivable sin, is not repenting (of mortal sin) before death. There is nothing you can do in this life that you cannot repent of and Jesus will not forgive you for. I’m 99% sure about this, if I’m wrong, someone correct me.

I’m not sure what the Orthodox definition of blasphemy against the holy spirit / unforgivable sin is.

 

[baltobetsy]

Monica, none of this is coming from God, and probably not from the devil, either. It’s most likely coming from a physical illness, and the longer you spend trying to find a spiritual solution to a physical problem, the longer you’ll be miserable.

I beg of you, please, please, please get medical help. I hope and pray the priest tells you the same thing.

Betsy

 

[InLight247]

how could it be that I blasphemed the Holy Spirit unknowingly?

You can’t.

Reading so many of your posts, I got the impression maybe sometimes you think too much.
Why not try to concentrate on your academic study and keep your spiritual life simple?
Analysis could cause paralysis. Maybe things will be better if you try to trust in Jesus’ mercy, be child like, love much and not think much. And love is to do with the will that you are not lack of.

Don’t open doors to the devil with your doubts. Do not dwell on those thoughts you described in this thread, brush them off. And by all means, talk to your priest.

 

[Monica4316]

Monica,
The unforgivable sin is *final *unrepentance. IOW, if you persist in turning away from God until the moment of death, that final sin cannot be forgiven.

Since you seem to still be with us, I would disregard all of that.

I think that makes sense, but what about the Pharisees in Matthew 12?

St Francis de Sales says that if we are praying mental prayer and find that our focus is more on just experiencing God rather than on what we have thought about meditating about, that it is better to allow that movement than to try to get back to your meditation, because that experiencing is a higher form of prayer.

HTH!

hmm… I can see how this would be true… what I just noticed though, is that today, before all this happened, I was trying very hard to feel something - like to feel contrition, or God’s presence… and I was seeking deeper humility… and then that ‘voice’ came. I dont know why. Maybe I should have just trusted God… but I dont’ understand why me praying for humility ended in this horrible way, if it’s not true.

St. John of the Cross, the great mystical doctor wrote that if you initally feel good during a supernatural experience, but are soon left with fear and doubt, that’s the negative fruit of a demonic experience (just like sin feels good initially, but leaves a sour taste). Genuine experiences of God will make you tremble, but leave you with peace and a greater zeal for God. Don’t quote me, because I’m paraphrasing from old memory.

As others said, talk to a priest, and heed his advice (even if it’s hard to follow). Obedience is a virtue and virtues are not what Satan wants from you.

I agree about obedience… about St John of the Cross, - with all these experiences, they felt very clear (though not good, because the content is so scary), but afterwards I always felt anxiety and fear. However, after a while, that anxiety always goes away and I feel peace again. Is that a good or a bad sign?

what if a person feels good during an experience, but it is also followed with peace and a greater love for God? this happened to me when I experienced God’s mercy in some way… it didn’t make me tremble or feel afraid, because He was showing me to His kindness… is that good though?

I have to go to work now but just a few words of encouragement before I go.

It is my understanding that in Catholicism blasphemy against the holy spirit, aka the unforgivable sin, is not repenting (of mortal sin) before death. There is nothing you can do in this life that you cannot repent of and Jesus will not forgive you for. I’m 99% sure about this, if I’m wrong, someone correct me.

I’m not sure what the Orthodox definition of blasphemy against the holy spirit / unforgivable sin is.

it seems to be very similar if not the same…

Monica, none of this is coming from God, and probably not from the devil, either. It’s most likely coming from a physical illness, and the longer you spend trying to find a spiritual solution to a physical problem, the longer you’ll be miserable.

I beg of you, please, please, please get medical help. I hope and pray the priest tells you the same thing.

Betsy

Betsy, I have no idea at this point. But I’m not having any other symptoms, and I never have. It doesn’t seem consistent with what I learned about such psychological problems… I’ll speak to the priest though, in any case.

You can’t.

Reading so many of your posts, I got the impression maybe sometimes you think too much.
Why not try to concentrate on your academic study and keep your spiritual life simple?
Analysis could cause paralysis. Maybe things will be better if you try to trust in Jesus’ mercy, be child like, love much and not think much. And love is to do with the will that you are not lack of.

Don’t open doors to the devil with your doubts. Do not dwell on those thoughts you described in this thread, brush them off. And by all means, talk to your priest.

I feel that now all this has happened though, I need to find some sort of an answer, because I can’t have peace thinking that I’m in unforgiveable sin

 

[Lief_Erikson]

I will speak to a priest…definitely… the experience was just so vivid, I don’t know how to get over this.

Demons are real creatures, so encounters with them often are vivid. Everything you described hearing from them was vicious, animalistic and savage. I’ve rarely heard of any experiences that are so obviously from the devil.

You have to get away from heavy reliance on private revelations. Don’t rely on a private revelation to tell you whether to stay Catholic or not; trust in Jesus in His Church and He will hold you steady in His bosom. Or if you will trust in private revelation, trust in the private revelations of St. Faustina! She was much closer to God than any of us and her experiences are explicit – God does love you and you are in His Mercy. You can never get away from His Mercy unless you no longer want it.

St. Paul wrote the following in Romans 8. This is the Word of the Lord.

31What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written:

“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”l

37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,m neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Nothing can separate you from the love of God.

As for the unforgivable sin, the enemy is trying to get you to believe in a private revelation (even a powerful one) above believing in the infallible public revelation of Jesus’ Church. You know that the Church defines the unforgivable sin as a sin we refuse to repent for. Thus the infallible Church has told you the answer in this matter and you have to choose with your will whether you shall believe her or this cruel private revelation.

By the way, another reason the private revelation could not be from God is that the Orthodox themselves define the unforgivable sin in the same way the Catholics do.

en.allexperts.com/q/Eastern-Orthodox-1456/2010/3/Unforgivable-Sin.htm

Therefore from a purely rational standpoint, it is IMPOSSIBLE that this spirit’s claim to you is genuine. Let’s suppose the Orthodox is the most faithful Church and not the Catholic Church. If that is true, then their beliefs about the unforgivable sin should be trusted. They say that the unforgivable sin is only committed when a person consciously, persistently rejects God and His Mercy. If you check out the link I provided above, you’ll see that. Therefore according to both the Orthodox and the Catholic Churches, this spirit is most definitely a damned liar. His own words prove him a liar, in addition to the infallible teaching of the Church.

This is a harsh trial you’re going through, but you have to keep looking at it that way in faith rather than as your destruction, which is what the devil wants you to think. He wants you to despair so that you turn away from God and His Mercy and stop seeking Him.

You must not rely on feelings or private revelations but on faith in the infallible teaching of the Church. God gave you delightful consolations in the beginning of your life as a Catholic in order to show you that He truly is here and He loves you. Now He is allowing the devil to torment you, as he tormented so many saints and attacked their minds, hearts, senses and even their bodies sometimes in order to make them stop believing in God and His Church, and to try to get them to give up and say that they were damned. The saints persisted, and lots of ordinary Christians who endure the same trials persist. You need to persist too, my friend. Live on faith from the will and discard all feelings, leaving them behind you that God might carry you securely through this trial.

You know from experience that your intuition regarding your private revelations cannot be trusted, and you also know that the enemy has been trying to mess with you and attack you. You’ve had demonic experiences. Reject these evil spirits and feelings. They are positively, definitely, without any possibly of doubt, evil and not from God.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

if this ‘voice’ wasn’t God, why isn’t He giving me repentance and contrition for sin, like I begged Him to?

You mean, “Why isn’t He giving me the feeling of repentance and contrition for sin,” right? It’s possible for us to genuinely want to change our ways without having strong emotions on the matter.

But either way, God isn’t bound to give us what we want. He gives us what He feels it best that we have.
"Monica:

Could it be because I actually hadn’t sinned in that particular case, and the devil is just confusing me with feelings of guilt? I do feel guilt… but no true repentance and humility, which I get when I have real sin. I’ve repented of all my other sins…I don’t understand…

I urge you to stop thinking about sin so much and focus instead on faith, faith in the Christ in the Sacraments and infallible teaching of the Catholic Church. “Take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one” (Eph. 6:16). Have faith in the infallible above faith in the fallible. Remember that once a spirit appeared to St. Gemma with such a perfect likeness of an angel, and without the forbidding feelings that sometimes accompanied the evil one, that she was taken in and thought it was an angel. But it was a demon, and the Lord allowed her to be briefly deceived. Another time an evil spirit appeared as her Confessor and deceived her so that she thought he truly was her Confessor. Her Spiritual Director later met her and convinced her otherwise, but only could do so through a strict command, so completely had the enemy deceived her.

If St. Gemma could occasionally be deceived by the enemy, don’t you think spirits from the enemy might appear to you in a convincing likeness of Jesus and trick you as well?

However, this spirit was certainly from the devil because its words were savage and evil and the fruit of its words is fear, unbelief in the Church’s teaching, and the risk of despair. I’m afraid you may have exposed yourself to that when you asked for a private revelation to guide you in whether or not you should remain Catholic. Which puts private revelation above the Church.

God is Love. He would never say wicked things, try to create despair, fear or unbelief, and He would never make out to be lies the teachings of the Church, the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).

I don’t know how to tell what the truth is.

Don’t listen to yourself or your personal experiences but to the Church and the saints. That is how you can know what the truth is. The truth is known through faith and not by private revelations or feelings. The enemy is still angry at your conversion to Catholicism and is trying to sweep you away, as he tried to do to the Virgin Mary (Rev. 12:15-16). The Church and saints you must rely on through faith and not feelings or personal experiences. A personal experience can be both vivid and real, even accompanied by healings, levitations or other phenomenon, and yet not be from God. You have to rely on what is infallible and reject all fallible experiences that contradict that. Keep putting that into practice and you will find yourself established on a solid foundation.

You cannot be deceived if you trust the Church and the Tradition of the Apostles.
Galatians 1:7-9:

Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

No spirit should be trusted above the teaching of the apostles, which is the Apostolic Tradition, the true Gospel. This Tradition has lived in the Catholic Church, unchanging and infallible, believed in faith and rewarding in life, for 2000 years. Private revelations that contradict it have emerged and led to heresies that fall in upon themselves over time, crumble and disintegrate. The Church herself stands like an immovable rock on the foundation of Christ, the Apostles and the Prophets (Eph. 2:20). Rely on this rock rather than on yourself, turn away from your feelings no matter how strong they are or how vivid the private revelation is, whenever these feelings or private revelations go against what the Pillar and Foundation of Truth has spoken.

 

[beckycmarie]

Monica,

Clearly you need help that you cannot get from CAF. Step away from the computer and make two appointments - one with a priest, and one with a mental health professional. You might try catholictherapists.com/. I’ll be praying for you.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Monica:

hmm… I can see how this would be true… what I just noticed though, is that today, before all this happened, I was trying very hard to feel something - like to feel contrition, or God’s presence… and I was seeking deeper humility… and then that ‘voice’ came. I dont know why. Maybe I should have just trusted God… but I dont’ understand why me praying for humility ended in this horrible way, if it’s not true.

It’s a mistake to try to make yourself feel something. That should not be your goal. You can’t make yourself feel the consolations of God’s Presence – you can only possibly make yourself feel like you’re feeling His Presence. God can give you the gift of feeling His Presence when He wants to. You also mustn’t look on humility or contrition as feelings. They are a state of being. For instance, contrition . . . I am contrite for lots of prideful thoughts and words I’ve spoken over the last few weeks, but I’m not feeling contrition right now. I probably won’t be feeling contrition when I step into the Confessional. That doesn’t mean I’m not sincerely sorry. And humility is definitely not a feeling. It’s a state of being, a way of looking at reality that God can create in us. You cannot make yourself contrite, humble or in God’s Presence by trying to muscle your emotions or feelings into cooperation with your will.

I was reading today about affective prayer, the emotional kind of prayer that you’re accustomed to. It’s a good kind of prayer but the Catholic book I was reading says it must be spontaneous and unforced, and when we can’t feel as we would wish to, we should instead practice meditation or vocal prayers.

Feelings are not the point or the goal. Union with God is, and that comes through faith. This faith becomes sharper and stronger when it relies on Him and His Church (and her teachings) without consolations.

Virtues must also not be identified with feelings. Feelings of faith are not the substance of faith, and the same with feelings of love, contrition, humility, generosity, or any of the other virtues. These are states of being and they do not require that we feel them for us to have them. A woman can be brave without feeling brave – in fact, she might be feeling whirlpools of fear at the moment she is acting the most bravely. A woman can be loving without feeling love. A woman can have faith without feeling faith. Imagine the faith St. Faustina had to keep sticking with God in spite of endless, savage trials, all the while feeling as though God had rejected her! That’s faith! Faith without consolations, faith in the teachings of the Church above her personal experiences, faith in what she knew to be the character of God. She believed in Mercy so in the end she received Mercy for herself and millions of other souls around the world that she has helped.