Please prove:The early church ...used the same canon as we do -for the most part.

[Nicea325]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rightlydivide
No. You did not.

The OT canon of Christ was the OT canon we currently use.

The early church until around the year 400 AD used the same canon as we do-for the most part. There were a few exceptions to be sure. However, the very earliest lists match our canon

.

Really? Wow! Jesus ONLY used the Protestant/Jew canon? Prove it!

When do you plan to PROVE that the Jews ALREADY FIXED the OT CANON PRIOR to Jesus?

As of today you have not provided a SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE for your claim!

And spare me everything you have provided because NOTHING you have given PROVES Jesus ONLY used the current Jewish/Protestant canon.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Good manners, which I am somewhat of an expert in, dictates you should ask the person prior to beginning a thread devoted solely to their view and certainly prior to using their name in the title. You should also say please. Besides Nicea, we have posted before you do not exactly answer my points but seem to just yell. Kind of like…your OP.
I have included a great deal of my information on the other thread. I devoted a great deal of time to it and all you did was give me a sentence or two of I DONT AGREE or YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING or I KNEW THAT MY WHOLE LIFE (although that does make you quite the scholar). I prefer calm rational conversatons not yelling…or colors…never colors.
So if you think you are up for that, lets talk. But calm down.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Oh I missed the please in your title. My apologies and a retraction of that line is in order. Thank you and I look forward to your response.

 

[Nicea325]

Good manners, which I am somewhat of an expert in, dictates you should ask the person prior to beginning a thread devoted solely to their view and certainly prior to using their name in the title. You should also say please.

Come again?

Besides Nicea, we have posted before you do not exactly answer my points but seem to just yell. Kind of like…your OP.

Oh yes I have and more than one way.Problem is that you do not like what you hear.

I have included a great deal of my information on the other thread.

And? And nothing you have provided has proved an iota that the OT canon was FIXED…has it? BTW: Nothing you have provided is new to me.

I devoted a great deal of time to it and all you did was give me a sentence or two of I DONT AGREE or YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING or I KNEW THAT MY WHOLE LIFE (although that does make you quite the scholar). I prefer calm rational conversatons not yelling…or colors…never colors.
So if you think you are up for that, lets talk. But calm down.

And you are a scholar? Far from it! Guess what? I studied the OT canon and not one biblical scholar whose material I have read has given a fixed canon or date. Your argument has no substantial evidence and the majority of scholars would disagree with you.

 

[Rightlydivide]

Now thats more like it. Yes, I would repost and then post some new things when I have a chance.
Oh no, I would never call myself that, others might, but I would certainly discourage it
Thanks
RD

 

[Rightlydivide]

The early church until around the year 400 AD used the same canon as we do-for the most part. There were a few exceptions to be sure. However, the very earliest lists match our canon
the Jews ALREADY FIXED the OT CANON PRIOR to Jesus?

To be clear, these are the two questions I will address.

 

[PeaceSerenity]

I prefer calm rational conversatons not yelling…or colors…never colors.
So if you think you are up for that, lets talk. But calm down.

I think elvisman is the main color person on this forum, if I’m not wrong, not Nicea But i agree on the color problem… I agree with elvisman on most issues (well, at least in catholic v protestant debates) but I can never bear to read his posts

 

[Rightlydivide]

Let us start late and then go early. While 360 AD is certainly not early Christian history, that would be like saying 2100 AD is early American history, we still find that the Council of Laodicea approved a canon that is only slightly different than the original canon. This seems to be the first slip towards the Catholic Church changing the real canon.
Notice however, they certainly still did not accept noncanonical books like Judith, Tobit, the Maccabees etc

These are all the books of Old Testament appointed to be read: 1, Genesis of the world; 2, The Exodus from Egypt; 3, Leviticus; 4, Numbers; 5, Deuteronomy; 6, Joshua, the son of Nun; 7, Judges, Ruth; 8, Esther; 9, Of the Kings, First and Second; 10, Of the Kings, Third and Fourth; 11, Chronicles, First and Second; 12, Esdras, First and Second; 13, The Book of Psalms; 14, The Proverbs of Solomon; 15, Ecclesiastes; 16, The Song of Songs; 17, Job; 18, The Twelve Prophets; 19, Isaiah; 20, Jeremiah, and Baruch, the Lamentations, and the Epistle; 21, Ezekiel; 22, Daniel.

It appears at this time the church is attempting to get away from its roots in regards to the canon. But of course this is just a regional synod as people will point out and regional synods Carthage, Hippo cannot speak for the whole church. For the most part, they are doing well though.
Now I will let Nicea make his comments and then I will go on to my next quote. This will take awhile obviously.

 

[Nicea325]

Let us start late and then go early. While 360 AD is certainly not early Christian history, that would be like saying 2100 AD is early American history, we still find that the Council of Laodicea approved a canon that is only slightly different than the original canon. This seems to be the first slip towards the Catholic Church changing the real canon.
Notice however, they certainly still did not accept noncanonical books like Judith, Tobit, the Maccabees etc

It appears at this time the church is attempting to get away from its roots in regards to the canon. But of course this is just a regional synod as people will point out and regional synods Carthage, Hippo cannot speak for the whole church. For the most part, they are doing well though.
Now I will let Nicea make his comments and then I will go on to my next quote. This will take awhile obviously.

Ooohhhhh…rightlydivide,no need to give me an early church history lesson, I am Catholic and know it very well. I also do not accept your revisionist historical views. I have read early church history and the history of the the canons a billion times. Nothing you gave proves the Jews fixed the OT canon prior to Jesus. Now…

Stick to the question at hand:

**When,where and who fixed the OT canon prior to Jesus? **

I’ll say it one more time: Fixed. Do you know what the means in relation to the canon?

That is what I want you to provide,not the same stuff you keep on parroting over and over.

 

[Rightlydivide]

In order for me to go on, you need to interact in some meaningful way with the content.
It does not have to be more than a paragraph. Seriously, thats just disrespectful to start a thread with someones name and then not interact with it. I told you I was working my way backwards, it will show my case even better. You need to have a little flexibilty when you start a thread.
I do need to know one thing as well. I will not waste my time with Cafeteria Catholics. Are you Catholic all the way? Pro Life. Anti homosexual marriage? It would be a complete waste of my time to debate a CINO so I need to be sure.

 

[Nicea325]

In order for me to go on, you need to interact in some meaningful way with the content.
It does not have to be more than a paragraph. Seriously, thats just disrespectful to start a thread with someones name and then not interact with it. I told you I was working my way backwards, it will show my case even better. You need to have a little flexibilty when you start a thread.
I do need to know one thing as well. I will not waste my time with Cafeteria Catholics. Are you Catholic all the way? Pro Life. Anti homosexual marriage? It would be a complete waste of my time to debate a CINO so I need to be sure.

By all means…go on,but present what I have asked you numerous times over and over and over and over and over and over.As of today,nothing you have provided proves the Jews fixed the canon prior to Jesus.

Excuse me? Cafeteria Catholic? How is that off-the-wall comment related to the topic rightlydivide?

Either stick to the issue or I will assume your diversions as a sign you will never prove the Jews fixed the canon prior to Jesus.

 

[Rightlydivide]

I am requesting if you are the real deal. It is a fair question. I do not want to waste anytime with a person who does not believe in their faith. So just answer please. It will not take long. are you pro life and anti homosexual marriage?

 

[Nicea325]

I am requesting if you are the real deal. It is a fair question. I do not want to waste anytime with a person who does not believe in their faith. So just answer please. It will not take long. are you pro life and anti homosexual marriage?

The issue here is not about my position about pro-life,homosexuality,etc,etc.Where is this coming from? The real deal? I have a B.A. in History and an MBA and I currently work for the RCC,so you tell me,if that qualifies?

BTW: I also do not waste my time on prideful people who cannot admit their historical position is incorrect and holds no ground.

 

[Rightlydivide]

If you were Pro-life, you would never refuse to say you were. Innocent life demands an answer.

 

[wisdomseeker]

The issue here is not about my position about pro-life,homosexuality,etc,etc.Where is this coming from? The real deal? I have a B.A. in History and an MBA and I currently work for the RCC,so you tell me,if that qualifies?

BTW: I also do not waste my time on prideful people who cannot admit their historical position is incorrect and holds no ground.

and it is very convinient for them to deverge the subject to something off the wall thing.

i am also waiting for the prove of his claims. dont let him diverge the subject until he shows proves.

 

[Nicea325]

If you were Pro-life, you would never refuse to say you were. Innocent life demands an answer.

One more time,how is the above any shape or form related to the canon of the OT? Enlighten me on this bizarre addition to the topic?

 

[Rightlydivide]

It will take one line. I dont want to waste my time on someone who is not orthodox, its a waste of time.
I am more than happy to answer and continue this thread.
Since when do Catholics shy away from Life?

 

[Rightlydivide]

One more time,how is the above any shape or form related to the canon of the OT? Enlighten me on this bizarre addition to the topic?

Because right now, I value you enough to go on. I do not quite respect you but I certainly do not believe anything bad about you. But you made some comments on the immigration thread that made me wonder. If you are a real Catholic, you are Pro-Life and against gay marriage. Its easy. If you are not Pro-Life, then I will not discuss this anymore. I will switch to an important topic; salvation. No person who supports the murder of babies will ever see heaven.
So please. I hope you will answer.

 

[Nicea325]

and it is very convinient for them to deverge the subject to something off the wall thing.

i am also waiting for the prove of his claims. dont let him diverge the subject until he shows proves.

Trust me,I have been waiting for at least 2 weeks. He made the claim Jesus’ followed the current Jewish/Protestant canon,so I want him to show me the empirical evidence when,where and who FIXED the OT prior to Jesus,hence supporting his charges.

 

[Rightlydivide]

The topic of the canon is nothing. Life matters. It shows if someone is regenerated or not. So shut me up and tell me please.