Poland sees rise in secularism [CWN]

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The State was supposed to promote propaganda against religion. Now that the Communist State is gone, perverted Western media is filling some of the void. In other words, Poland is becoming Westernized. Here, in the United States, various groups modeled after Marxism have polarized men and women.

“Destroy the family and you destroy society.” V.I. Lenin

The Polish people are turning to Christ.

Peace,
Ed

“Polska nie zginie.”
 
An draining the oil out of the car of the Parish Priest!
Not only that, but they’ve been stealing my CD cases for years and hiding them under the sofa. You watch, one of these days I’ll catch Gorbachev right in the act.
I’ll check the warehouse at Conspiracy High Command next time I’m out at Area 53 and see if we have anything of yours in storage.

We are a massive conspiracy we need groups like CAF and people like Glenn Beck to keep us straight on who is and who isn’t affiliated with us (Usually if they aint American Conservatives they are on our side but still…)
Fascism and nazism have almost nothing in common (other than nationalism).
Yet Franco worked with Hitler. Very closely.
 
Yes, both communism and “west European style liberal secularism” (notice how you are unable to produce a single name for it, which is simply liberalism, period) share a common hatred : religion, and Christiantiy in particular. You also forget that liberalism, like communism, is an intellectual and ideological construction, and can be dated to the early 18th century in its most militant and potent forms. “Convervativism,” (which, like “liberalism,” is a modern phenomenon) is a logical and natural reactionary movement against liberalism (which, before the succesful republican revolutions, was simply known as “radicalism” - but victors write the histories, of course, and today we call it “liberalism” issuing from “the enlightenment,” which thing didn’t happen in the 18th century, but in the 1st). Hence progressivists and liberals like to dismiss their opponents (traditionalists and conservatives, respectively) as being “reactionary,” as opposed to the much more ideal “action.” So in my country the NDP (a neo-Marxist party) constantly - even to the point of nausea - always demands the government “take action,” “take action,” and… “take action.”

Interestingly, a famous Satanist (Aleister Crowley (sp?) his choice of appelage) once decreed that what he wants from his followers “is action… mindless action.” Now St Augustine taught that contemplation must always precede action, and hence mindless action is pure folly, even a mockery of our God-given reason. Mindless action will ultimately unnaturally submit someone to the worst and most deplorable kind of slavery, wherein they feel helplessly compelled to act upon any and every impulse that floats into their feeble mind (feeble from lack of use).

Now you finished by saying that they (communism and secularism) “attack religion from different angles,” but failed to realize that they attack with virturally the same tactics and almost identical points (most of the time), usually attempting to discredit Christianity on an intellectual grounding or as being somehow antiquated. Please venture the thought that perhaps what really inspires anything is an animus, not an intellect, which is always subservient to one’s animus. Intellect is a tool at man’s disposal : what drives and determines its use is another matter altogether.

Pax,
Tim
Well, I disagree with your equation of liberalism with secularism. They may be a common correlation, but many so-called conservatives are also secularists (I mentioned before Ayn Rand and her followers as an example; Nietzsche is a great example of an anti-liberal atheist) and there are, loath as some may be to admit it, some sincerely religious liberals. This is why I think it is worth noting that mosts western secularists belong to a specific ideological set; and they should note it too, rather than simply thniking of themselves as “rational;” the political and philosophical diversity of atheists and agnostics on a global scale pretty much destroys the case that they are all predisposed to rationality, since they cannot agree amongts themselves what is rational. Indeed, Hu Jintao and Richard Dawkins would hardly agree on anything other than the nonexistence of God.

And the idea that conservativism is historically consistent response to progressivism is also a problematic assertion. Which conservativism is the right one? The Monarchism of Metternich and De Maistre at the beginning of the nineteenth century? or the economically liberal, socially conservatism democratic position of today’s republicans? This of course applies to liberalism as well, as no modern liberal can really claim to an intellectual descendant of Rousseau, who I doubt liberals even read anymore, and likely wouldn’t understand even if they did.

And truest communists are anything but friends of liberalism. Some Marxists are among the most vitriolic critics of postmodernism, relativism, and even humanism (these orthodox Marxists are the most consistent and probably most frightening of the bunch). I wouldn’t exclude it from the realm of possibility that Christian conservatism and liberalism are closer to each other than either is to genuine Marxism. If course, most people who call themselves Marxists today are fluffy, watered down, humanist Marxists, because genuine Marxism has, shall we say, a fire and brimstone side to it that would scare away the youth as fast as Puritanism would.
 
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Timothy17:
It is amazing how quickly a tragic news report about Poland’s besieged Faith spun into a litany of anti-American bigotry, at the forefront of which are - not surprising - disaffested Americans (let’s call these the Green Day (of the MTV variety) posters) - and gauging from the orthodoxy of those posters (based on their long track record of antagonistic posting) - this is not surprising of the Green Day American Catholics (loyalties approximately in that order). Not surprisingly, a non-Catholic European had no qualms joining in and encouraging this elitist party.
I hope you aren’t referring to me. I do not listen to Green Day nor do I watch MTV. If you are so interested, my favorite kinds of music include Wagnerian opera and Beethoven’s piano sonatas. If you weren’t referring to me, then I apologize for making the assumption.
 
Yet Franco worked with Hitler. Very closely.
I’ll argue exactly how closely, but more or less, yes. First of all, Falangism while nationalist, wan’t expansionist like Fascism (more or less “State Capitalism”) & Nazism (a variety of Socialism). The common ideologies among all three is anti-communist and nationalist.

But perhaps this is derailing the thread. If you’d like to PM me or start another thread, I’m all go.

Pax,

Sebastiano
 
😃

I should explain myself a bit more:

I think the atheist secularists that were behind communism in eastern europe, and the failed attempts to install communism in various countries of western europe, are the same people who are behind the slower drift towards secularism that we have in the west. It’s the same ideology, just being advanced more slowly in some countries and more quickly in other countries.

My point is that even though communism fell, atheist secularism hasn’t gone away and is still a danger.
Oh we powerful atheists control everything.

That’s why the Middle East has gone Marxist, the Soviet Union is still around, and the Vatican has been razed to the ground in order to build a shopping mall:rolleyes:

-AngryAtheist8

P.S. Your reality sounds more interesting than this universe.
Can you tell me how to get there?
 
The State was supposed to promote propaganda against religion. Now that the Communist State is gone, perverted Western media is filling some of the void. In other words, Poland is becoming Westernized. Here, in the United States, various groups modeled after Marxism have polarized men and women.

“Destroy the family and you destroy society.” V.I. Lenin

The Polish people are turning to Christ.

Peace,
Ed

“Polska nie zginie.”
Its funny how you have the same answer to every question Ed (modernism evil…change bad). But I suspect the real answer has more to do with nationalism.

When the communists were in charge foreigners told the Polish people to reject religion. So that whenever Poles practiced Catholicism (or any other religion) they were actively rebelling against the hated government, which was imposed on the Poles (and controlled) by outsiders.

In such an environment being a good Catholic could be considered a patriotic act, and was certainly an act of defiance towards the (largely foreign) communist system.

But things are different now.

Now the Vatican is the foreign power telling the Poles what to do. Trying to control Polish legislation, and threatening Polish politicians with excommunication if they don’t vote the way Bishops tell them to (as this BBC News article covers bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11605216).

The Polish people have a long history of being dominated and oppressed by foreign powers. It seems that the Vatican may have accidentally tapped into the resentment the Poles feel towards such outsiders.
 
Its funny how you have the same answer to every question Ed (modernism evil…change bad). But I suspect the real answer has more to do with nationalism.

When the communists were in charge foreigners told the Polish people to reject religion. So that whenever Poles practiced Catholicism (or any other religion) they were actively rebelling against the hated government, which was imposed on the Poles (and controlled) by outsiders.

In such an environment being a good Catholic could be considered a patriotic act, and was certainly an act of defiance towards the (largely foreign) communist system.

But things are different now.

Now the Vatican is the foreign power telling the Poles what to do. Trying to control Polish legislation, and threatening Polish politicians with excommunication if they don’t vote the way Bishops tell them to (as this BBC News article covers bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11605216).

The Polish people have a long history of being dominated and oppressed by foreign powers. It seems that the Vatican may have accidentally tapped into the resentment the Poles feel towards such outsiders.
Considering Donum Vitae was released under the Venerable Pope John Paul II I’m not sure how foreign you could really call it.

Also Catholicism is so deeply intertwined in Polish culture one could so that disobeying the Catholic Church is basically unPolish.
🤷
 
Oh we powerful atheists control everything.

That’s why the Middle East has gone Marxist, the Soviet Union is still around, and the Vatican has been razed to the ground in order to build a shopping mall:rolleyes:

-AngryAtheist8

P.S. Your reality sounds more interesting than this universe.
Can you tell me how to get there?
It’s hard to respond to sarcasm directly, since you make your point in such a round-about way. Anyway, your counterexamples show that the power of these “secular atheists” isn’t complete, but my argument is not that they have complete power, but that they have an influence that goes beyond their numbers. It’s the belief system of the ruling class. Some examples of where it holds a lot of influence:
Higher Education
Popular entertainment
Social agendas in politics
 
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