Polarity in the Church today

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As with American media and society as whole, it can be observed that polarity is an issue in the Church, even a problem. Part of creating the polarity has to do with the media itself, as they get better viewership by airing, at times, uncharitable opinions and do not consider the point of view of “the other side”.

The Church is the starting point of the Kingdom. It seems to me that the call for charity on the CAF is very important, but posters who care about polarity in the Church can make an extra effort to understand the feelings and experiences, as well as the affiliations of other posters with a nonjudgmental discipline. After all, Jesus asks us not to judge one another.

Thoughts?
 
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I remember back in the day when all practicing Catholics had an organic and spiritual resonance that was palpable. The first time I was out in the ‘big wide world’ alone was to do a Contiki tour of Europe in 1982. People from many different countries living together for a month and a half of touring. It was a real experience of Catholics of like mind gravitating towards each other without being overtly religious or obvious.

I feel really sorry that today especially through the internet forums, I don’t sense that resonance with so many Catholics. When I do, it’s a very cherished thing. Everything seems to be so politically charged now. Political identity trumps Catholic identity.
 
Just look at the opposing ‘sides’ in the veiling or modesty threads, let alone the OF or EF threads. I think that says it all.
 
I have to admit that I went through a period of being a (ETA: overly) judgemental Catholic. What really started me changing in that respect was reading a book called The Cardinal, which was written in the 1950s. He talked about the situation of Catholics in other parts of the world, and I got a much better understanding of the universality of the Church and the fact that in other parts of the world, Catholics have different spiritual needs.

For example, it’s easy enough for educated European cradle Catholics to think that Mass in Latin is a unifier, but for converts in other parts of the world with no Latin background or etymology in their language … not so much! Latin means nothing at all to them, all it does is to render the Mass incomprehensible.

So the push for Mass in the vernacular was not just something hippies sprang on us along with guitars, but a long-standing concern among missionaries in remote parts of the world.

I guess maybe we all need to be more open to the idea that we might be wrong… it’s like there are two main groups and each is a little to far along its end of the spectrum.

So on the extremes, we have people who start and run soup kitchens and make rainbow vestments and others who are so traditional that they form a sort of closed society that does not interact much with the world.

I have hope because I see these extreme tendencies slowly dissolving. I hope that eventually one will not be able to predict the homily by perusing the groups a parish has, but that each parish will have a well-rounded set of groups in keeping with its size and resources.

And I am coming to see that this is very necessary in our society (here in the US). There is so much work that needs to be done! And it will be so much better done if we can come together and not view each other as enemies.
 
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People need to really stop saying that Jesus tells us not to judge one another… It’s completely not true. Judgement is twisted as this terrible thing to do in society when in reality it has always and will always be completely normal and something necessary for prudential judgement in day to day life. Right judgement is supported historically through the church and biblically.
 
OneSheep said:
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Thoughts?
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Matthew 7
5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
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Catechism
1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.
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Prayer for Christian Unity - I pray this prayer everyday. Whilst it is intended for all to be united with the Catholic Church (UtUnum Sint 25 May 1995), I also see it as applying to within the Latin Church regarding the two rites and also that all may be united under the one Shepherd - ultimately Christ, but also under His Vicar on earth.
 
Emeraldlady said:
Everything seems to be so politically charged now. Political identity trumps Catholic identity.
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Yes, I’ve noticed the same. It is as if political/ideological affiliation is more important than than communion through Eucharist.

Thank you for your post.
Annie said:
And I am coming to see that this is very necessary in our society (here in the US). There is so much work that needs to be done! And it will be so much better done if we can come together and not view each other as enemies.
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Yes, I also see the necessity. Do you see a means by which we can turn things around? It is like we are “blowing in the wind” of American society. We vote and opine in the same mix as the rest of America. We generally seem to have the same set of concerns as the rest of the poles defined in the media.

Thank you so much for your insights!
 
OneSheep said:
As with American media and society as whole, it can be observed that polarity is an issue in the Church, even a problem. Part of creating the polarity has to do with the media itself, as they get better viewership by airing, at times, uncharitable opinions and do not consider the point of view of “the other side”.

The Church is the starting point of the Kingdom. It seems to me that the call for charity on the CAF is very important, but posters who care about polarity in the Church can make an extra effort to understand the feelings and experiences, as well as the affiliations of other posters with a nonjudgmental discipline.

After all, Jesus asks us not to judge one another.
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No one but you is suggesting that anyone is actually Judging another…
Discernment we can -

The Media must never be muddled…

Rather than refer to The Church itself - it’s the hierarchy which is catching attention from all…

For, we know there’s very strong serious disageeements amongst and between some e.g., Cardinals and Bishops - even with respect to some situations and actions of the pope.

In other words, yes, the proper focus should never be solely upon ‘the media’
 
ConcernedConvert said:
People need to really stop saying that Jesus tells us not to judge one another… It’s completely not true.
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Well, it is true:

Luke 6:37 New International Version (NIV)

Judging Others

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Here is another guide:

John 12:46-47 New International Version (NIV)

46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

And here is a guide involving judging or any other behavior or thought about one another:

Matthew 7:12 New International Version (NIV)

12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
ConcernedConvert said:
Judgement is twisted as this terrible thing to do in society when in reality it has always and will always be completely normal…
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So yes, while judging is completely normal, Jesus calls us to modify all our “normal” behaviors to what is loving and charitable, and we can use Matthew 7:12 as a guide.

When it comes right down to it, we are called to forgive, it is in the Lord’s prayer to do so. Who are we called to forgive? If I hold nothing against someone, then the call does not apply. We are to forgive the very same people that we condemn.

Certainly, we can and should judge the behaviors of ourselves and others, what is right, what is wrong, but the person we are to forgive, and any correction should have Matthew 7:12 in mind. I think this is what you are referring to, correct?
 
CRV said:
I pray this prayer everyday.
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Wonderful. Here it is:

Ut unum sint

Lord Jesus Christ, at your Last Supper you prayed to the Father that all should be one. Send your Holy Spirit upon all who bear your name and seek to serve you. Strengthen our faith in you, and lead us to love one another in humility. May we who have been reborn in one baptism be united in one faith under one Shepherd. Amen.

Of course, Eucharist has, in part, the same purpose. We are to share a meal as brothers and sisters.
 
EndTimes said:
No one but you is suggesting that anyone is actually Judging another…
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Well, people do judge one another, correct? Have you heard Catholics use negative emotion in their voices when referring to Catholics of a different ideology or opinion?
EndTimes said:
For, we know there’s very strong serious disageeements amongst and between some e.g., Cardinals and Bishops - even with respect to some situations and actions of the pope.

In other words, yes, the proper focus should never be solely upon ‘the media’
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I agree. We are all involved.

Why is it that people have become so polarized? I heard a TED talk about it, and I think they have great insight.
 
OneSheep said:
Well, people do judge one another, correct? Have you heard Catholics use negative emotion in their voices when referring to Catholics of a different ideology or opinion?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) EndTimes:
For, we know there’s very strong serious disageeements amongst and between some e.g., Cardinals and Bishops - even with respect to some situations and actions of the pope.

In other words, yes, the proper focus should never be solely upon ‘the media’
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The term “judge” must be understood in the manner in which Jesus and Church employ it.

Judgement of souls - yes, people can yet must never do…

Recognizing for instance Sin in another - is not Judgement… rather, Discernment.

Division / Polarizations - have been Prophesied …

Ultimately they exist because of the will of Satan and the actions of those who follow his lead…

THIS EXISTS - both without, and within the corridors of, the visible Church…

Buoy and Maintain your FAITH in JESUS…

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You have pulled two to three passages out of context and used that to justify a position that is not correct and not supported through The teachings of the church or biblically. Read on further to get a complete understanding.
We are of course called to forgive, there is nothing about judgement that negates forgiveness.

https://www.catholicstand.com/yes-catholics-can-judge/
 
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