Police: Approximately 20 dead inside Florida nightclub after mass shooting

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XndrK said:
Okay, I got caught up in argument-by-hypothetical, but I’m going to offer one last simple argument (because I’m a jerk). When was the last time you heard an incident in the news of a mass-death-by-crossfire event? (You haven’t heard of successful self-defense because it was successful, and one death is a lot less sensational than fifty.)

I still need fifty people, some paintball guns with flashlights, and a darkened room.
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When was the last time multiple people tried to take out a shooter with guns? Seriously, I want to know, I can’t find a single one that didn’t involve two gangs.

Did you know that more mass shooter events are stopped by civilians without guns than shooters with guns?
 
Joie_de_Vivre said:
Did you know that more mass shooter events are stopped by civilians without guns than shooters with guns?
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More and more guns and weapons are supposed to make everyone safe. If everyone just carried around a couple of loaded semi-automatic rifles on their shoulders, two or three concealed and loaded handguns and a few tasers, the US would be a whole lot safer. In addition, students should carry some extra ammunition to class with them, just in case.
 
Joie_de_Vivre said:
That list has two times, each of which were stopped by two LEO. I don’t think anyone has argued against LEO having guns especially on duty ones.
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  1. Assistant Principal (civilian)
  2. Owner of the banquet hall (civilian)
  3. law students (civilians), County sheriff’s deputy (LEO), police officer (LEO), *(Both LEOs “lost valuable response time accessing their handguns because of the law school’s standing as a gun-free zone”)
  4. Jeanne Assam (civilian)
  5. Donald J. Moore (civilian)
  6. School Resource Officer (I’m assuming this is a civilian job)
  7. Aaron Guyton (civilian)
  8. a shopper in the mall (civilian)
  9. Another bouncer (civilian)
  10. The site’s foreman, a Concealed Handgun License holder (civilian)
  11. two corrections officers (LEO)
  12. Dr. Silverman (civilian)
I thought I’d list it because I felt your comment was a bit vague, maybe a punctuation thing. Yes, there were two instances of LEOs (off duty) using their weapons to stop a gunman, but in 11 of the 12, there were civilians (yes, even one of the instances where there were two LEO, there were civillian(s) also). In one of the two instances where there were LEO, the LEO were hampered by following the law regarding the gun free zone. See only good guys are slowed down by “gun free zones”…bad guys just find them to be better targets.
 
misspriss said:
  1. Assistant Principal (civilian)
  2. Owner of the banquet hall (civilian)
  3. law students (civilians), County sheriff’s deputy (LEO), police officer (LEO), *(Both LEOs “lost valuable response time accessing their handguns because of the law school’s standing as a gun-free zone”)
  4. Jeanne Assam (civilian)
  5. Donald J. Moore (civilian)
  6. School Resource Officer (I’m assuming this is a civilian job)
  7. Aaron Guyton (civilian)
  8. a shopper in the mall (civilian)
  9. Another bouncer (civilian)
  10. The site’s foreman, a Concealed Handgun License holder (civilian)
  11. two corrections officers (LEO)
  12. Dr. Silverman (civilian)
I thought I’d list it because I felt your comment was a bit vague, maybe a punctuation thing. Yes, there were two instances of LEOs (off duty) using their weapons to stop a gunman, but in 11 of the 12, there were civilians (yes, even one of the instances where there were two LEO, there were civillian(s) also). In one of the two instances where there were LEO, the LEO were hampered by following the law regarding the gun free zone. See only good guys are slowed down by “gun free zones”…bad guys just find them to be better targets.
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In only the two cases involving LEO was there more than 1 responder with a gun. LEO have actual training on how to respond if someone pulls a guy, few civilian gun owners who have never been LEO, security or military do.
 
Joie_de_Vivre said:
When was the last time multiple people tried to take out a shooter with guns? Seriously, I want to know, I can’t find a single one that didn’t involve two gangs.

Did you know that more mass shooter events are stopped by civilians without guns than shooters with guns?
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I thought most mass shootings end with suicide, when the person is confronted (usually by police).
 
Theo520 said:
I thought most mass shootings end with suicide, when the person is confronted (usually by police).
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…
Roughly half of all active shooter events Blair studied ended before law enforcement officers arrived. The most common occurrence was that the shooter stopped the attack spontaneously on their own. The decision was often made after an initial burst of violence, in which the shooter attacked everyone who was in the immediate area, Blair said.
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When those who remained either ran away or barricaded themselves in secure areas, shooters often made the decision to leave the attack site or commit suicide, he said.
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Blair said he also documented cases in which civilians took direct action. Civilians stopped about one out of every six active shooter events, but their actions rarely involved the use of firearms, he said.
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The most common method was tackling the attacker, as was the case during a campus shooting in Seattle this week.
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Blair said he found only three cases in which an armed civilian shot the attacker, and in two of those incidents, the civilian who took action was an off-duty police officer.
…
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politifact.com/new-hampshire/statements/2014/jun/06/jim-rubens/jim-rubens-says-when-armed-civilians-stop-mass-sho/
 
Joie_de_Vivre said:
When was the last time multiple people tried to take out a shooter with guns? Seriously, I want to know, I can’t find a single one that didn’t involve two gangs.

Did you know that more mass shooter events are stopped by civilians without guns than shooters with guns?
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It’s because those events are just called shootings, not mass shootings.
 
meltzerboy said:
Why not go one step further and say the Democratic Party caused the inner city problems in the first place? Now we’re moving into Trump territory, except that I’m still not sure he really believes most of what he says.
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Your statement is accurate to the extent that Republicans essentially do not exist in the inner cities.

So, yes, the Democratic Party did cause the inner city problems in the first place.

They abolished the family unit, using the government welfare check as a surrogate for fathers.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
Your statement is accurate to the extent that Republicans essentially do not exist in the inner cities.

So, yes, the Democratic Party did cause the inner city problems in the first place.

They abolished the family unit, using the government welfare check as a surrogate for fathers.
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There was a video of an inner city mom explaining how the Democratic Party system works.

When I went to look it up, I found there were many such videos.

Here is one.

mrconservative.com/2013/11/27564-welfare-mom-i-will-always-be-on-welfare-and-never-work/

If you visit YouTube, there are many other additional examples.

Thank you for making the suggestion.
 
Would someone with better statistical skills than me check this out?

The United States is 3rd in murders throughout the world. But if you take out just 5 ‘left-wing’ cities: Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC, St Louis and New Orleans – the United States is 4th from the bottom, in the ENTIRE world, for murders.

These 5 cities are controlled by Democrats. They also have the toughest gun control laws in the USA. It would be absurd to draw any conclusions from this data, right?

It seems to omit gang violence, drug violence, and black-on-black crime.

And some countries are rife with homicide …

But the fact that those five cities are controlled by the Democrat party seems to be accurate.

And that tough gun control laws don’t seem to help matters. That seems to be accurate as well.
 
The murder rate in these large Democratic controlled American cities are going up as the Ferguson effect transforms relationships between the police force and black people. As police step back from profiling, criminals are killing blacks with impunity

For Democrats, black lives don’t matter much.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
There was a video of an inner city mom explaining how the Democratic Party system works.

When I went to look it up, I found there were many such videos.

Here is one.

mrconservative.com/2013/11/27564-welfare-mom-i-will-always-be-on-welfare-and-never-work/

If you visit YouTube, there are many other additional examples.

Thank you for making the suggestion.
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Brief rant on my opinion on the welfare system:

It’s broken. It’s not doing its job. I’m not saying that the welfare system needs to be removed entirely, but its current state is one of failure. As the video demonstrates, the current welfare state incentivizes not working and thereby saps American production capacity as a whole. (Also, I for one would be pretty ticked if somebody forced me, under threat of being arrested, to pay someone else’s bills just because they aren’t working.)

If I were the Great Grand Dictator of the United States, I would 1) get a pony and 2) completely shift the focus of welfare from supplying people needs to getting them back to work. Goodwill’s been doing it for eighty years; I don’t see why the Feds can’t.

If this problem is the same in other countries, then I would do the same thing.
 
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