Police reform necessary for today's crime rate?

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da_nolo

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Here’s reform idea:
A = create new volunteer branch to serve community (such as private security).
  1. act in ‘patrolling’ city residential/commercial blocks by use of basic self defense laws/good Samaritan laws (as all citizens already follow) and cameras (available by the person or department under special qualifications or support through community & city’s department).
main duty to report and record criminal activity
(benefit: potential cost benefits vs out weighing costs in surveillance such as cameras through out the city)
  1. participate in other citizen jobs open to public within police department by requirements and qualifications. such as those who qualify may work w/ forensics or clerical work.
  2. participate in recording ‘small’ violations such as parking, loitering, littering, misdemeanors, various listed felonies etc.
rules as follow for ‘patrol’ = must be recorded, must be documented/written, must be turned in w/in x amount of time since crime, must act as witness, anonymous participation and/or anonymous witness program, never allowed to use/carry weapons*, corruption involves loss of position/fine, lack of participation results in loss of position/fine, all persons be identified and recorded for records (as in background checks; drug tests; etc.)
  • carry/use weapons may be determined by local considerations or apply to certain ‘ranked’ participants.
benefits to volunteering = available unmarked* discounts from local participating stores, available unmarked* discounts for national stores, resources in obtaining security guard card (which could expand duties or simply finding a job), resources in finding/learning/participating/etc. self defense courses and/or schools, discounts and/or ‘opportunities’ at local community colleges, possible resources or noted discounts in other fields (such as lower interest rate for mortgage).

*unmarked being that the discounts are not related to the volunteer work so when it is used, no one can identify them directly.

B = policing
  1. move personnel according to above adjustments. could mean moving officers from ‘desk’/clerical jobs, parking patrol, and other services to higher demanding duties.
  2. bonuses for recorded results* such as discounts, % increase in salary, % increase in retirement, % increase in other benefits as chosen
*results meaning arrests, tickets, etc. but be under witness or recorded by camera or otherwise

C = jail justice
  1. remove certain benefits in jails such as weights, tvs, etc.
  2. add benefits to jails such as art, plays, schooling, etc.
  3. remove extraordinary health benefit w/ generic benefits
all things can be changed, all things can be added, etc.

should the police organization change? yes or no
what changes could there be?
 
Bonuses for results is pretty problematic in police work, I think.

And I am not sure why you think police reform in necessary? Crimes rates have declined significantly for several years now. Or at least til 2010.
 
Before any police reforms could take place and be effective, the public would have to be completely re-educated vis-a-vie personal and political freedom and the role of the police in our society.
All too many people, especially in large cities, tend to think of the police as their protectors. Nothing could be farther from reality. The US Supreme Court is on record as saying that the role of the police is not to protect but to deter the commission of crime.
The next thing is the American love of outlaws…We tend to idolize individuals such as Billy the Kid and Jesse James, both of which were murderers pure and simple; and we hold up Wyatt Earp and his brothers to be great heroes, when in reality they were professional gamblers, corrupt law enforcement officers (almost as bad as the people they arrested) and murderers as well. Just look at the popularity of The Godfather, in which the Mafia was adulated!, Oh, there was a thin veneer of conventional morality written into the script, but Don Coreleone and his son Michael were portrayed as operatic heroes.
What is the difference between these villains and most criminals today, except for Hollywood and the dime novel? Nothing, except folklore.
Until American society matures, and stops looking the other way at tax evasion and minor theft on the job-or shop-lifting, rejoicing at beating a speeding ticket and subourning of public outrages such as co-habitation, child-bearing out of wedlock, and the gay lifestyle, none of the reforms you pro-offer would work. In fact, some of them could easy be disasterous…but I don’t want to argue those points here, as that would be an exercise in futility.
I live in NYC, and recently someone proposed returning to public hanging as a deterant to violent crimes, such as the recent Auburn, Co. theater murders. The almost universal response was that due to ineffective law enforcement and the courts, plus unscrupulous attorneys, things have gotten to a point that public hanging would soon degenerate into public amusement, much as it was 300 plus years ago, and it wouldn’t deter anything at all except rich fees for the attorneys concerned.
Cynical? D**ned right, but factual.
 
As with the Priesthood, raising the standards might be the solution. Raise them, and they will be met. Lower them and they are already met. Miami and Los Angeles lowered police standards, and got criminals in uniform.
 
I’ve watched a lot of old western movies and there is a lesson there to be learned about the role of the police force. Societies create a police force for protection against violent criminals and to have them brought to justice. This is a role clearly portrayed in the old western movies. Think about what your police force does now, it is very different. Mostly they patrol around looking for ways to generate revenue by catching someone on a technical violation of a fairly mundane law. The cities have sections of road where the speed limit is lower than it should be and park their officers along that stretch to write speeding tickets all day long. That isn’t why we have a police force!

When it comes to the crimes for which we created a police force enforcement often comes up very lacking. I saw on the local news here a while back that murder had a conviction rate of 97%. That’s great, but usually whodunnit? is an easy question to answer for murder, and honestly probably the 3% are the only ones that we would care about. Most of the time murder is just one scumbag killing another over what is probably already a criminal matter such as drug dealing. The ones I care about are when it is a stranger homicide or an innocent victim. For the other crimes the rate of resolution was less than 10%.

They aren’t trying very hard to perform the actual function that we created a police force to perform. This is more of a problem of perspective on their part and the direction that the administration chooses to set. I think the problem is top down and in large part city councils are also to blame. They want to see a police force break even or generate revenue instead of costing money. I don’t care if they cost money, I pay my taxes to have police do their job, not hassle me over little things.
 
Absolutely, but remember good policing is more than manipulating the numbers. Improving police is a difficult but not impossible job. For insight and direction on how to do this, take a look at my new book and visit my blog, “Arrested Development: A Veteran Police Chief Sounds Off About Protest, Racism, Corruption and the Seven Steps Necessary to Improve Our Nation’s Police” as a reference. And also visit my blog on improving police at improvingpolice.wordpress.com/ where I discuss these and other current police improvement issues. Good luck and may we all experience not just good but great policing!
 
St_Francis said:
Bonuses for results is pretty problematic in police work, I think.

And I am not sure why you think police reform in necessary? Crimes rates have declined significantly for several years now. Or at least til 2010.
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must be relevant to area. my city is on its way to having its second worst year for crime historically. though considerably still a ‘town’ we are close to or already over 40 homicides.

in an independent study - out of 100 being best - my city is rated 2 for safety.

I agree rewards are problematic, however. I tried to write it the best w/ precautions to that. such as having required video recording of incidents and not having rewards for major crimes such as violent crimes, certain drug crimes (maybe), and gang related crimes. that way the most concerning will not be influence, where as small things that result in fines or community hours may be enforced rather ignored. I’ve seen various crimes ignored.

unfortunately the worst when my friends car got broken into. there was blood everywhere from the idiot who did it, but still the police did not take the time to even show up or make a report.

having citizen jobs available for it may clear things up
 
George_Stegmeir said:
Before any police reforms could take place and be effective, the public would have to be completely re-educated vis-a-vie personal and political freedom and the role of the police in our society.
All too many people, especially in large cities, tend to think of the police as their protectors. Nothing could be farther from reality. The US Supreme Court is on record as saying that the role of the police is not to protect but to deter the commission of crime.
Click to expand...
Could the reform occur in hopes of generating education?
…none of the reforms you pro-offer would work. In fact, some of them could easy be disasterous…but I don’t want to argue those points here, as that would be an exercise in futility.
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I agree that the concept of ‘criminals’ is largely twisted as well as other issues within society.

as for what may be disastrous or not work, could you elaborate? I did this in part to learn possible changes, and if I do not see a problem in it then it will always be flawed.
 
An area for improvement springs from a general fault with this institution of justice… inaction when it is called for. A case where a policeman sees a judge who says nothing at a trial where he knows for sure a defense lawyer is incompetent should be brought to the forefront by him. A case where he sees an officer dip in a dealers cache when being arrested should be brought to the forefront. These are two examples, The first protects the integrity of due process which is paramount in ensuring a visibly reputable judicial system, the second case shows that no matter what standing a person is, and whatever the circumstances, then all crime will not be condoned. These are two examples but many more are out there.

Sadly, the repercussions are much more personally serious for the offender than what could ever occur on earth. Depending on how vincible a person is in his knowledge, ( invincibility would be a rare mitigating case in this information world), if an officer’s non-action meets the criteria for capital sin (newadvent/sin), and goes through a life of commendable visible action of duty, even obtaining honors and promotions, none of the good is credited to him while in that state.

It is not surprising that incidences of Christian police claiming conscientious objection are rare indeed, honor among men for these men being prominent for career advancement we assume, but at the same time not fooling God with the label. Being a Catholic could call for sacrifice and potential contention with co workers and superiors. A Catholic knows his senses and eyes are meant to do God’s work when it is called for without hesitation.

Another is the false understanding that offenders have no sense of what is just. How are we to set examples to prevent recidivism when the offender sees white caller crime go unpunished, rampant corrupt police systems, God’s command for unconditional pardoning is ignored, and perpetual punishment is practiced without a promise for future reinstatement of a person’s rights.

I say any attempt to reduce crime will fail until we address all issues and faults with the system, otherwise it is only force, not principle that keeps people in check, and that is a scary one sided scenerio bound to fail.
 
I understand that often jails are paid for each inmate the keep. This means there is a profit motive for convicting as many people as possible. A person has to prove himself innocent in order to avoid incarceration. The proportion of those incarcerated to the population is way to high. Something is wrong!
 
mackbrislawn said:
I understand that often jails are paid for each inmate the keep. This means there is a profit motive for convicting as many people as possible. A person has to prove himself innocent in order to avoid incarceration. The proportion of those incarcerated to the population is way to high. Something is wrong!
Click to expand...
This is entirely wrong. Jails don’t do the convicting, so there is no profit motive. They are paid by the same people who do the convicting, so if anything there is a disincentive.

There is an instance in which a jail can make money for those who build it. If you build your jail with extra capacity and the neighboring counties or communities have a lack of capacity, they may have to send their overflow to you. There’s a pretty high charge per day for that, and you can make money. However, the jail is incarcerating people who were convicted by someone else and who have to pay the bill. There is no direct profit motive.
 
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