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T
thomasf
Guest
Keep Poland for Poles, not immigrants.
S
Seamus_L
Guest
I don’t think they want to be like France and Germany. Can’t say I’d blame them.
P
ProVobis
Guest
Don’t sell your property to them. That’s for starters.
O
Ontheway
Guest
Not quite Polish bishops, but a single priest who is associated with the bishops conference, but his words were interpreted as the voice of Poland’s bishops. He expressed personal opinion, giving the impression of speaking for the Polish church.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
Having a sane immigration policy isn’t fear-mongering. It’s even part of having decent immigration according to the Vatican.
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Strydersroom
Guest
Exactly. This is why Trump’s policy is so widely criticized, because it sounds quite insane in my opinion. Build a wall, ban Muslims, deport all illegals, “they’re rapists”
C
chevalier
Guest
The context is that the ruling party is Law and Justice — a right-leaning centrist party informed by Catholic faith and morals and trying to adhere to them. Their perceived right-wing slant pretty much comes exclusively from two things: 1) Catholicity and 2) patriotism. Otherwise they are routinely referred to as socialists, populists, statists etc. because they are strong on social justice — which is sometimes kitchen-sink vigilante sort of justice that draws the ire of legal pundits, almost all of whom support the previous government.
The above is in contrast to the nominally Christian Democratic previous ruling party called Civic Platform, which has numerous Catholic membership, including Catholic writers, openly religious people, showing off Church links, talking about faith, going to religious retreats etc. etc. At some point, however, they decided to take a turn to the left. With that, one of their most prominent politicians, for example, switched from talking about her membership in Charismatic Renewal and how God told her to run for office to now being an LGBT advocate. Another, relying on his credentials as a former history teacher in seminary and his blood relationship to a long-dead archbishop (and similar arguments) tried to claim that in vitro wasn’t a closed matter for Catholics and legitimate differences existed. At that point the party chose to take an anti-clerical position and insist that the Church should take less part in politics (meaning: stop commenting, because Polish bishops don’t get actively involved).
Law and Justice are not into the whole liberal thing, open society (Popper, Soros) etc. They are pro-EU but moderately skeptical about the current policies and direction, which (perhaps a crude simplification) means they disagree with Brussels on trying to impose a left-wing slant on the entire EU and member states.
Similarly, Law and Justice, while supporting German Chancellor Merkel in general, disagree with her migration policy. It is perceived in Poland that Merkel wanted to invite migrants to fill the missing billets in declining German workforce — and help sustain German retirement benefits among other things. But later things slipped out of her control. German government is now falling in line with the left-weaning Brussels and its political-correctness orthodoxy in trying to cover up the ethnic/religions (immigrant, Muslim) element in crimes committed by migrants on a massive scale, as well as actually losing control of some parts of some German cities.
By contrast, it would be a gross understatement to say Poles are no big fans of political correctness. Apparently, Polish blood rejects political correctness.
Conservative Poles are also worried that Brussels is using migrants to weaken nation states and national identities and breed a class of voters who identify with the European Union itself rather than specific countries, to enhance Brussels’s authority. And that means a bunch of left-leaning ideologically-light (except for LGBT issues) technocrats who are trying to remake the continent in their image.
Next, Poland’s GDP and growth rate may look good on paper, but they don’t translate to better living conditions for Poles themselves. In fact, there is a perception that Poles have become pauperized and reduced to cheap labour in their own country, where anything of importance is controlled by foreign, often German, enterprises. Average wage already looks bad on paper, but the sad truth is most people are making half that, tops. Corporations and other companies are putting more and more pressure on lower base wages, no bonuses, no employment but ad-hoc contracts etc. etc. Basically screwing the nation over.
Here, Law and Justice wants neither ‘multi culti’, nor the added task of having to monitor the radicalization of islamic youth (often 2nd-gen rather than 1st-gen), and certainly nothing like having to guarantee housing, employment, cars etc. for potentially hostile migrants whereas so many Poles are poor, unemployed or even homeless. There are also more radical right-wingers (true free-market/civic-freedom liberals, for example) who support taking Eastern Christians in but not Muslims. There is more and more talk (and even some action) about helping Syrians and others on site rather than helping them migrate into Europe.
Markedly, the Episcopate believe that even Muslim migrants can be assimilated easily and pose no problems whatsoever.
Pope Francis recognizes the need for some sort of screening and monitoring, but he doesn’t seem to consider in a deeper way the dangers involved or the need to reduce the help offered to your own poor in order to take in the refugees and support them.
My personal impression is that the government has fallen victim of a sort of ‘Poland for Poles’ mentality, which has historically been foreign to the Polish state, which has a long-standing tradition of being a safe haven for everybody, from Scots and Spanish Jews in the west to Armenians in the east, whereas the ecclesiastical side is narrowly focusing on a single dimension and perhaps unknowingly fall in line with official EU political narrative. And perhaps forgetting that, since money doesn’t grow on trees, offering social benefits to refugees means no money or less money to help a country’s own poor citizens. And Poland’s budget for social aid is not the kind the UK has, for example, by several orders of values.
The above is in contrast to the nominally Christian Democratic previous ruling party called Civic Platform, which has numerous Catholic membership, including Catholic writers, openly religious people, showing off Church links, talking about faith, going to religious retreats etc. etc. At some point, however, they decided to take a turn to the left. With that, one of their most prominent politicians, for example, switched from talking about her membership in Charismatic Renewal and how God told her to run for office to now being an LGBT advocate. Another, relying on his credentials as a former history teacher in seminary and his blood relationship to a long-dead archbishop (and similar arguments) tried to claim that in vitro wasn’t a closed matter for Catholics and legitimate differences existed. At that point the party chose to take an anti-clerical position and insist that the Church should take less part in politics (meaning: stop commenting, because Polish bishops don’t get actively involved).
Law and Justice are not into the whole liberal thing, open society (Popper, Soros) etc. They are pro-EU but moderately skeptical about the current policies and direction, which (perhaps a crude simplification) means they disagree with Brussels on trying to impose a left-wing slant on the entire EU and member states.
Similarly, Law and Justice, while supporting German Chancellor Merkel in general, disagree with her migration policy. It is perceived in Poland that Merkel wanted to invite migrants to fill the missing billets in declining German workforce — and help sustain German retirement benefits among other things. But later things slipped out of her control. German government is now falling in line with the left-weaning Brussels and its political-correctness orthodoxy in trying to cover up the ethnic/religions (immigrant, Muslim) element in crimes committed by migrants on a massive scale, as well as actually losing control of some parts of some German cities.
By contrast, it would be a gross understatement to say Poles are no big fans of political correctness. Apparently, Polish blood rejects political correctness.
Conservative Poles are also worried that Brussels is using migrants to weaken nation states and national identities and breed a class of voters who identify with the European Union itself rather than specific countries, to enhance Brussels’s authority. And that means a bunch of left-leaning ideologically-light (except for LGBT issues) technocrats who are trying to remake the continent in their image.
Next, Poland’s GDP and growth rate may look good on paper, but they don’t translate to better living conditions for Poles themselves. In fact, there is a perception that Poles have become pauperized and reduced to cheap labour in their own country, where anything of importance is controlled by foreign, often German, enterprises. Average wage already looks bad on paper, but the sad truth is most people are making half that, tops. Corporations and other companies are putting more and more pressure on lower base wages, no bonuses, no employment but ad-hoc contracts etc. etc. Basically screwing the nation over.
Here, Law and Justice wants neither ‘multi culti’, nor the added task of having to monitor the radicalization of islamic youth (often 2nd-gen rather than 1st-gen), and certainly nothing like having to guarantee housing, employment, cars etc. for potentially hostile migrants whereas so many Poles are poor, unemployed or even homeless. There are also more radical right-wingers (true free-market/civic-freedom liberals, for example) who support taking Eastern Christians in but not Muslims. There is more and more talk (and even some action) about helping Syrians and others on site rather than helping them migrate into Europe.
Markedly, the Episcopate believe that even Muslim migrants can be assimilated easily and pose no problems whatsoever.
Pope Francis recognizes the need for some sort of screening and monitoring, but he doesn’t seem to consider in a deeper way the dangers involved or the need to reduce the help offered to your own poor in order to take in the refugees and support them.
My personal impression is that the government has fallen victim of a sort of ‘Poland for Poles’ mentality, which has historically been foreign to the Polish state, which has a long-standing tradition of being a safe haven for everybody, from Scots and Spanish Jews in the west to Armenians in the east, whereas the ecclesiastical side is narrowly focusing on a single dimension and perhaps unknowingly fall in line with official EU political narrative. And perhaps forgetting that, since money doesn’t grow on trees, offering social benefits to refugees means no money or less money to help a country’s own poor citizens. And Poland’s budget for social aid is not the kind the UK has, for example, by several orders of values.
C
chevalier
Guest
In fact, Poland’s economic situation is so bad that there are simply no jobs for Poles, and employers/entrepreneurs don’t care. Young people move to Western Europe for work, and entire cities get depopulated. Housing prices are such that a square yard of floor space is sold at 3, 4, 5 times your gross monthly salary (i.e. before tax; where you also have to pay bills, buy food etc.). There is no work, people can’t afford housing, and there is no improvement. The country is sinking into debt and grasping at underhanded tax policies to survive. This can’t not affect Poland’s ability to provide benefits for refugees. There are already about two million Ukrainians in the south of the country anyway.
Heck, Poland has Poles abroad, away in Asia where they had been deported by Stalin. There is never money enough to get them all back in from Kazakhstan and other places. Now the EU wants refugees from the Middle East to be given priority instead, and Church hierarchs seem to be falling in line with the EU.
Heck, Poland has Poles abroad, away in Asia where they had been deported by Stalin. There is never money enough to get them all back in from Kazakhstan and other places. Now the EU wants refugees from the Middle East to be given priority instead, and Church hierarchs seem to be falling in line with the EU.
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