Polish [National] Catholic Church

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tee_eff_em

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I have recently become acquainted with a gentleman whom I believe to be associated with either the Polish National Catholic Church or the Polish Catholic Church, to the extent that I believe he may even have been ordained as either a deacon or priest in Poland, but which he respects that our (Roman) Ordinary here in the US will not grant him faculties to celebrate.

He operates as though the P[N]CC is in communion with Rome, but my understanding is that such is not the case? He has even claimed that there are Roman bishops and a Cardinal from the P[N]CC.

I know: My primary recourse should be to ask him for specifics about his claims (eg names of these members of the hierarchy), and I intend to do so. He seems to win debates by attrition speaking so many *WordsSoLoudlyAndSoQuicklyAndWithoutAllowingHisInterlocutor(s)AnOpportunityToRespondThatTheyPreferToWalkAwayRatherThanToContinueToEngage. *:coolinoff:
Since I operate at a much slower pace, I wanted to ask here: Does anyone have a guess as to what names of herarchy or other evidence I might expect him to provide? Thanks.

Ordinarily, I sometimes think such affairs are none of my business, but (i) he does regularly present himself to receive communion in Catholic churches, (ii) he may be leading others into error, and (iii) I became acquainted with him throught the Knights of Columbus, which requires its members to be “practical Catholics in union with the Holy See”, and I would hope, if appropriate, to convince him to withdraw his membership (or better: to come into communion with the Roman Catholic Church!).

Recap: What evidence might I expect a Polish [National] Catholic to present that he is in commuion with the Pope of Rome?

Thanks in advance.

tee
 
I can’t imagine that there is any such evidence, as they aren’t – as the local PNCC pastor could tell you, with his wife backing him up.
 
tee_eff_em said:
Recap: What evidence might I expect a Polish [National] Catholic to present that he is in commuion with the Pope of Rome?

Thanks in advance.

tee
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I can’t imagine you’d find a Polish National Catholic who would present themselves in communion with the Holy See. Particularly when they seek union with the Holy See, since they’re not in such union currently. 🤷
 
Q – What is the difference between the Polish National Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Church?

A – The main difference is the fact that the PNCC is non-papal, meaning that the Church is not under the jurisdiction of the Pope and the Vatican

source

I don’t see how being “non-papal” can be squared with being in communion with Rome. It seems the gentleman is either misinformed or intentionally misrepresenting the situation.

Edited to add:
I just noticed on the page I linked to there is a “fifth mark of the church” listed:

One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic, Democratic

I cant imagine any church in communion with Rome doing that.
 
It was my understanding that the PNCC was in fact “in communion with Rome” - I’m pretty sure a PNC individual is allowed to receive communion in a RC church.

I believe however, that this was not always the case.
 
Medawlinno said:
It was my understanding that the PNCC was in fact “in communion with Rome” - I’m pretty sure a PNC individual is allowed to receive communion in a RC church.

I believe however, that this was not always the case.
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Nope. They’re not in communion with Rome. They seek communion, but they’re not currently in communion.
 
tee_eff_em said:
I have recently become acquainted with a gentleman whom I believe to be associated with either the Polish National Catholic Church or the Polish Catholic Church, to the extent that I believe he may even have been ordained as either a deacon or priest in Poland, but which he respects that our (Roman) Ordinary here in the US will not grant him faculties to celebrate.

He operates as though the P[N]CC is in communion with Rome, but my understanding is that such is not the case? He has even claimed that there are Roman bishops and a Cardinal from the P[N]CC.

I know: My primary recourse should be to ask him for specifics about his claims (eg names of these members of the hierarchy), and I intend to do so. He seems to win debates by attrition speaking so many WordsSoLoudlyAndSoQuicklyAndWithoutAllowingHisInterlocutor(s)AnOpportunityToRespondThatTheyPreferToWalkAwayRatherThanToContinueToEngage. :coolinoff:
Since I operate at a much slower pace, I wanted to ask here: Does anyone have a guess as to what names of herarchy or other evidence I might expect him to provide? Thanks.

Ordinarily, I sometimes think such affairs are none of my business, but (i) he does regularly present himself to receive communion in Catholic churches, (ii) he may be leading others into error, and (iii) I became acquainted with him throught the Knights of Columbus, which requires its members to be “practical Catholics in union with the Holy See”, and I would hope, if appropriate, to convince him to withdraw his membership (or better: to come into communion with the Roman Catholic Church!).

Recap: What evidence might I expect a Polish [National] Catholic to present that he is in commuion with the Pope of Rome?

Thanks in advance.

tee
Click to expand...
Perhaps he’s simply doesn’t know the difference between the Catholic Church in Poland (aka the one in communion with Rome), the Polish National Catholic Church & the Polish Catholic Church?

Esp if he says there is a Cardinal.

Sometimes these “Catholic” schismatic groups are not forthcoming that they are not in communion with Rome.
 
phil19034 said:
Perhaps he’s simply doesn’t know the difference between the Catholic Church in Poland (aka the one in communion with Rome), the Polish National Catholic Church & the Polish Catholic Church?

Esp if he says there is a Cardinal.
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I wish that were the case, but I am doubtful from (i) the rumor that he is in orders, but not allowed to exercise them, and (ii) references he has made about “having to go to Scranton” 😦

In any case, if there are no standard feints to look out for, I expect I shall just have to find out what he says (specifically) about being in communion. I am not sure when I shall see him next (probably within the month), but I shall report back when I have done so.

tee
 
The PNCC is a product of schism. Perhaps not surprisingly, during the recent papacy of the Polish Pope John Paul II, many PNCC persons came back into communion with the Catholic Church.
 
oliver927 said:
Q – What is the difference between the Polish National Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Church?

A – The main difference is the fact that the PNCC is non-papal, meaning that the Church is not under the jurisdiction of the Pope and the Vatican

I don’t see how being “non-papal” can be squared with being in communion with Rome. It seems the gentleman is either misinformed or intentionally misrepresenting the situation.

Edited to add:
I just noticed on the page I linked to there is a “fifth mark of the church” listed:

One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic, Democratic

I cant imagine any church in communion with Rome doing that.
Click to expand...
The PNCC now brands itself as the NCC, except when they advertise in the Polish paper.
The term “democratic” probably refers to the fact that church property is vested in the laity rather than the hierarchy. But they sometimes have church closings and property disputes, such as the drawn out litigation in Canada. I suppose no system is perfect.

At least a few years ago, they taught there are 7 sacraments, with a difference. They consider Baptism and Confirmation one sacrament, usually received at different times; and they added a new sacrament, Hearing the Word of God. But recently I have seen some places refer to this, and others referring to the traditional RC listing. I wonder.

Eucharistic compatibility for an individual does not equate with one church being in communion with another.
 
commenter said:
The PNCC now brands itself as the NCC, except when they advertise in the Polish paper.
The term “democratic” probably refers to the fact that church property is vested in the laity rather than the hierarchy. But they sometimes have church closings and property disputes, such as the drawn out litigation in Canada. I suppose no system is perfect.

At least a few years ago, they taught there are 7 sacraments, with a difference. They consider Baptism and Confirmation one sacrament, usually received at different times; and they added a new sacrament, Hearing the Word of God. But recently I have seen some places refer to this, and others referring to the traditional RC listing. I wonder.

Eucharistic compatibility for an individual does not equate with one church being in communion with another.
Click to expand...
Nope. It doesn’t.
 
It seems that we should take care that this doesn’t become a thread about gossip. Of course we should always take care, but I thought to mention it becaus the OP stated that the priest “operates as though the P[N]CC is in communion with Rome”, and later someone else said " It seems the gentleman is either misinformed or intentionally misrepresenting the situation."
 
tee_eff_em said:
… I expect I shall just have to find out what he says (specifically) about being in communion. I am not sure when I shall see him next (probably within the month), but I shall report back when I have done so.

tee
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Hi again. I had forgotten about this thread but then just now noticed it on the list. Have you learned anything since you last spoke to us?
 
Peter_J said:
Hi again. I had forgotten about this thread but then just now noticed it on the list. Have you learned anything since you last spoke to us?
Click to expand...
Oh, thanks for asking. I promise I will follow up when I have more information.

Unfortunately, the gentleman did not attend the event where I would expect to see him this month.

tee
 
I know I’m quite late to this Thread, but have not been on the Forums for some time. Just wanted to say that I attend many K of C events in my area and admire the organization, but as a member of the PNCC would not try to join. Whether we ever reenter into communion with the Holy See remains to be seen. If anyone has interest in the PNCC (history, beliefs, etc) I am well versed and enjoy discussing such things - feel free to send me a PM or an E-Mail
 
We had a Polish National Catholic Church in our neighborhood. A link to the PNCC web site:

pncc.org/

Hope this helps,
Ed
 
Medawlinno said:
It was my understanding that the PNCC was in fact “in communion with Rome” - I’m pretty sure a PNC individual is allowed to receive communion in a RC church.

I believe however, that this was not always the case.
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I believe Holy Orders are recoginized but just as with the Othrodox that
Recognition does not mean we are in communion.they are schismatic.

I
 
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