C
CarolNoel
Guest
I totally agree:thumbsup:
Iāll listen to God and His Church before listening to the cause du jour.
Polish Priest that used to work at the Vatican comes out of the closet and says Church needs to "wake up"
- Status
M
Michael1978
Guest
Your stats may be skewed by your location as the number is likely minuscule on a universal scale. These poor misguided souls are not practicing the faith because they objectively reject the faith and its teachings. They, like anyone else, are welcome in the Church, in hopes that they will seek reconciliation with God and turn from their objectively sinful lifestyles.
C
CuriousFaith
Guest
When you say this, do you mean that for example a woman with SSA is married to a man, and they have children and they are catholic, or do you mean that 2 women are married with children and they are catholic. Could you clarify exactly what you meant please?
I know that there are in fact many men and women who have SSA, and they have prayed to God for help and guidance, and they have been led to their true partner in Christ. They live with SSA every day, and receive graces everyday because of their struggle. However, and I mean no disrespect to anyone who self-defines as gay or lesbian, honestly, but I have to agree with those who say that same-sex couples will not be viewed the same way, even if they are Catholic. As Catholics, we are to love and accept everyone, but sin is sin, no matter how you look at it. To be truly Catholic and a true follower of Christ, we must put away our own desires except for our desire of the Lord.
J
josh987654321
Guest
I agree.
D
Durnford
Guest
It is scandalous that this snake in the garden be allowed to spread his propaganda like this
I really hope he is excommunicated until he repents
The whole Church faces embarrassment over one selfish individual
It is really sickening
bbc.com/news/world-europe-34654581
I really hope he is excommunicated until he repents
The whole Church faces embarrassment over one selfish individual
It is really sickening
bbc.com/news/world-europe-34654581
D
Durnford
Guest
Something is either a timeless truth or it is not
Something is either intrinsically evil or it is not
Something is either a mortal sin or it is not
These things are constant and do not change
Something is either intrinsically evil or it is not
Something is either a mortal sin or it is not
These things are constant and do not change
L
leftfooter
Guest
As I understand it the priest is a practicing homosexual, which means he is taking part in sexual relations with another man, so if I,m not mistaken that probably means sodomy, so hereās a priest who has broken his vows of celibacy and advocates the same for other priests and clergy who may wish to do so, as far as I know he also advocates homosexual relationships if his congregation wish to do so. Obviously then if homosexual sex is permissible in the priesthood then by extension he would believe homosexual marriage is permissible and as he has obviously broken vows of celibacy then no doubt he advocates this and adultery too. What disturbs me about this priest is he has been allowed to say mass and offer communion, if an unrepentant adulterer is not allowed to receive communion how was this priest allowed to offer the sacrifice of the mass, I find it very hard to believe nobody knew or has done anything about his behaviour. Obviously he should of been sent packing a long time ago.
J
JimG
Guest
Well, simply going by what was reported, nobody was aware of this until his own public announcement. He was of course no longer allowed to continue in his job at the CDF or his teaching positions once he announced this. But I agree that the fact he was in these positions in the first place is concerning. However, it would not be common, I think, to inquire about a priestās personal sex life before making such assignments. I presume that the vow of celibacy is taken at face value.
L
Lucretius
Guest
Hello,
If I give this priest a charitable reading (and ignore his rejection of sodomy as a sin) I would say that he is trying to get people to be more empathetic to these people, for this casts out their loneliness and helps lighten their Crosses somewhat.
The author probably would say that, like our understanding of suicide, our understanding of homosexuality has evolved, and so we should understand homosexuals as not deliberately acting perverse (homosexuality is a choice), but rather as people acting on feelings that are outside their control (homosexuality is something you are born with).
The problem with such a view is that our understanding of the moral dimensions (read: objective aspect) of homosexuality has not grown much to justify justifying such behavior, although we have a better account of the emotional and volitional dimensions (read: subjective/psychological aspect). In other words, we might say that homosexuals are not deliberately choosing the evil, but rather are weak when confronted by a temptation from the flesh, making them less culpable. However, none of this changes the objective evil of the act, just as severe mental disorder might remove culpability from a young woman who cuts, but it doesnāt making cutting morally licit.
Furthermore, our understanding of the psychological motives for homosexuality havenāt changed much either: one of the only new things we know is that some people have an semi-exclusive attraction to the same sex, which doesnāt suddenly make participating in homosexual behaviors morally good (does have a genetic disposition to alcoholism make binge drinking justified?). Other than that, the teaching of the Holy Ones has always understood homosexuality as motivated by perverse passions, rather than pure malice.
It is possible (although less charitable) that the author is just mindlessly playing the Marxist progressive card, where old ideas are dismissed without any refution other than that they are āoutdatedā or āagainst progress.ā The problems with the Marxist view of history are numerous, and for the sake of efficiency, I would just dismiss such a claim as baseless, meaningless, superstitious, and question-begging (and even worse: unscientific
). What is progress? Sounds to me to be whatever the current fad of the times are: when the next fad comes along (my wild guess is that it will be related to transhumanism), everything being taught as āprogressiveā today will be dismissed as āobsolete.ā Donāt be swept away by every wind of doctrine, my brother 
If this is the case, the author is appealing to popular intellectual fads to justify his behavior, rather than rationally and dispassionately contemplating his behavior. I would give him the benefit of the doubt and assume the more charitable reading, until proven otherwise 
Christi pax,
Lucretius
I think we should pray for this man
He sounds like he is appealing to popular fads in order to justify his position. Such an appeal is, objectively and rationally absurd, but has a sentimental appeal, especially since the issue is always framed in a way in which homosexuals are understood to be oppressed in some way, a frame which truly tugs oneās sympathy.
I think what the man is saying is that having a strong attraction to the same sex is difficult to deal with, and tends to isolate the victim. For a faithful Catholic with a strong same sex attraction, and a lack of opposite sex attraction, he has to live with the fact that his romantic and sexual feelings can never be acted upon (if he or she also had opposite sex attraction each would still be able to incarnate those feelings. If one has a mostly exclusive feeling for only those of the same sex, no romantic feelings can be fulfilled). This is very difficult to deal with, especially in our culture, as we tend to emphasize the emotional aspect of love.
If I give this priest a charitable reading (and ignore his rejection of sodomy as a sin) I would say that he is trying to get people to be more empathetic to these people, for this casts out their loneliness and helps lighten their Crosses somewhat.
The Church should certainly reject outdated understandings, like how suicide was understood to be a willful denial of Godās Providence, rather than being more often than not a desperate attempt to escape emotional and/or physical pain that one can no long cope with, pain which overwhelms the animal aspect of the soul in such a way as to cloud the intellect, reducing the culpability of the victim.
The author probably would say that, like our understanding of suicide, our understanding of homosexuality has evolved, and so we should understand homosexuals as not deliberately acting perverse (homosexuality is a choice), but rather as people acting on feelings that are outside their control (homosexuality is something you are born with).
The problem with such a view is that our understanding of the moral dimensions (read: objective aspect) of homosexuality has not grown much to justify justifying such behavior, although we have a better account of the emotional and volitional dimensions (read: subjective/psychological aspect). In other words, we might say that homosexuals are not deliberately choosing the evil, but rather are weak when confronted by a temptation from the flesh, making them less culpable. However, none of this changes the objective evil of the act, just as severe mental disorder might remove culpability from a young woman who cuts, but it doesnāt making cutting morally licit.
Furthermore, our understanding of the psychological motives for homosexuality havenāt changed much either: one of the only new things we know is that some people have an semi-exclusive attraction to the same sex, which doesnāt suddenly make participating in homosexual behaviors morally good (does have a genetic disposition to alcoholism make binge drinking justified?). Other than that, the teaching of the Holy Ones has always understood homosexuality as motivated by perverse passions, rather than pure malice.
It is possible (although less charitable) that the author is just mindlessly playing the Marxist progressive card, where old ideas are dismissed without any refution other than that they are āoutdatedā or āagainst progress.ā The problems with the Marxist view of history are numerous, and for the sake of efficiency, I would just dismiss such a claim as baseless, meaningless, superstitious, and question-begging (and even worse: unscientific
). What is progress? Sounds to me to be whatever the current fad of the times are: when the next fad comes along (my wild guess is that it will be related to transhumanism), everything being taught as āprogressiveā today will be dismissed as āobsolete.ā Donāt be swept away by every wind of doctrine, my brother If this is the case, the author is appealing to popular intellectual fads to justify his behavior, rather than rationally and dispassionately contemplating his behavior. I would give him the benefit of the doubt and assume the more charitable reading, until proven otherwise Christi pax,
Lucretius
M
mikekle
Guest
What makes you think our modern day āexpertsā are right about these things? Just as scientists were proven wrong in the past about many things, in time, eventually, more than likely, many of our modern day scientific beliefs will be proven wrong or inaccurate.
Every generation likes to think they have it all figured out and they are correct about everything, but history shows us, many times though, they are proven wrong.
Kind of like how people today shake their heads in disbelief that at one time, āexpertsā thought Radium was the cure all for just about anything, Im sure 100 yrs from now, people will be shaking their heads at some of the crazy things believed to be true in 2015.
K
Kindness
Guest
Any person wishing to be informed can read the bible and the Cathecism and clearly see what the Church teaches regarding human sexuality and celibacy for priests regardless of orientation. The current Zeitgeist regarding homosexual liaisons and relationships is well known to anyone who is awake and paying attention in the western world. Therefore what this priest is saying is nothing new. He is just drawing attention to himself and his own sin in refusing celibacy at the expense of the community of believers that have supported him spiritually, educationally and financially all these years. I find his attention seeking behavior extremely disrespectful and his decision to accept influential positions in the church while living and believing differently to be extremely dishonest.
The fact that he decided to invite the media to hear his point of view in the middle of Rome at the time of a Synod is offensive. It also shows how a small group of people can use the media to give an impression about the church which is false. He is preaching to the choir while the rest of the faithful carry on living sacrificially regardless.
No media event is called for a priest living a celibate life for 50 years or a faithfully married couple who have weathered all kinds of trial through faith.
The fact that he decided to invite the media to hear his point of view in the middle of Rome at the time of a Synod is offensive. It also shows how a small group of people can use the media to give an impression about the church which is false. He is preaching to the choir while the rest of the faithful carry on living sacrificially regardless.
No media event is called for a priest living a celibate life for 50 years or a faithfully married couple who have weathered all kinds of trial through faith.
L
Lucretius
Guest
I donāt think people noticed the other issue with this priest: heās not just deserting Christās teaching, but he is also breaking his Vow of Chasity. Even if one assumes that homosexual behavior can be chaste in a āmarriage,ā the priest still is not married to his boyfriend.
I would probably respect his opinion more if he came out but remained celebate due to his Vow in the priesthood: he sounds like he supports extramarital sex as well: heās not just supporting homosexual behavior, but the whole sexual revolution!
Christi pax,
Lucretius
I would probably respect his opinion more if he came out but remained celebate due to his Vow in the priesthood: he sounds like he supports extramarital sex as well: heās not just supporting homosexual behavior, but the whole sexual revolution!
Christi pax,
Lucretius
C
ComplineSanFran
Guest
Just a bit of information here. I havenāt seen any place with real-time statistics covering the past 20 years or so, either in the US or the UK, but my guess is that there may be about 100 Anglican clergy who left and became Roman Catholic. That is hardly ādroves.ā I donāt have statistics for the opposite either - RC priests who are now Anglican priests. My guess in that case, there are probably considerably more.
C
ComplineSanFran
Guest
Sorry to have taken so long to respond to your question. I meant lesbian women who are married to each other, oftentimes with children in their family. In my town, which undoubtedly IS a-typical, there are many such families who go to Mass at their Catholic church. As I have said before, it is the new normal. Just as blended families - divorced, remarried, etc - were the new normal several decades ago and no one thinks twice about it anymore, I do think we are going to see more of gay and lesbian families in our churches.
L
Lucretius
Guest
I donāt know; homosexuals still are only around 3% of the population. I think we will see more gay families in Churches, but not nearly to the number we see divorce/remarried and single parents.
And gay family trends are hard to predict anyway right now because the phenomenon is so new that we have little statistical data on it.
Christi pax,
Lucretius
J
JimG
Guest
I donāt see the slightest chance of the Church approving homosexual sex, any more than it is going to approve of adultery, singles shacking up, or approving of any other sexual sin. Not going to happen.
C
ComplineSanFran
Guest
You are quite right, Lucretius. It is going to take time to see how this all unfolds. Here in San Francisco, there have been families around for quite a long time (whether that be two adults or those raising children.) They are just a part of the make-up of the congregation, both in the Episcopal church, Lutheran, or Roman. I know that in other urban settings, the same is true. I can see where middle America might not have the same demographics.
L
Lucretius
Guest
I live in Pittsburgh, and I have not seen one gay couple at Mass at all, not to mention a gay family. Whatever that means. Much of the people in Mass though are older, so that might have something to do with it (not to mention are concentration of āpro-life, pro-gun, and pro-unionā conservative Democrats).
Christi pax,
Lucretius
K
Kindness
Guest
If you love me you will keep my commandments.
John 14:15
John 14:15
- Status