Political Correctness

[mrsdizzyd]

There ARE Indians who are not offended by Apu - I too have read plenty of those types of responses. But you have to dig to find them because they don’t “agree” with the PC view. And we can’t say they’re the minority because we don’t know.

OR you have to dig to find them because (as valid as their experiences may be) they represent a relatively small percentage of South Asians who have ever seen Apu in action.

 

[nightshade]

So it’s white fragility if someone who is white skinned is offended by a stereotypical white character but not brown fragility if someone brown skinned is offended by a stereotypical brown character? Hypocrisy much?

Can someone be racist to white skinned people? If the answer to that is no then you are a racist my friend.

 

[Pup7]

The ones I read were Americans.

To say that is just not accurate.

The number is actually irrelevant. One person can cause an uproar, but when it’s a few who dissent, they’re dismissed because they’re not the majority.

As I’ve said, their opinion is discarded.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

Huh? I’m talking about Americans.

 

[Pup7]

Can someone be racist to white skinned people? If the answer to that is no then you are a racist my friend

Yes, they can.

I’ve heard many who aren’t white say that’s impossible because of majority.

How is that fair or accurate?

 

[Pup7]

Huh? I’m talking about Americans.

I think you’d be hard pressed to find a young American in the right demographic who isn’t familiar with that whole controversy. Heck, I’m 44 and haven’t watched the Simpsons in eons and knew the character.

And it still doesn’t matter how many there are or aren’t.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

The point I was getting at is that there aren’t stats on how many South Asians feel disparaged by The Simpsons, so neither one of us can speak to who is being heard vs who is being silenced and whether that has anything to do with PC.

 

[jesucated]

I appreciate both your unique perspective and your service.

Having said that, citing documents that you can’t source and no one else can see isn’t terribly helpful in a conversation like this one. I’m not in any way saying you’re lying, just that we can’t compare your reading/memory of the text with another reading of the text or even with the text itself when there is no accessible text.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

nightshade:

Can someone be racist to white skinned people? If the answer to that is no then you are a racist my friend

Yes, they can.

I’ve heard many who aren’t white say that’s impossible because of majority.

How is that fair or accurate?

You are likely working from a different definition of racism than they are. So, it’s another case of misunderstand due to ill-defined terms.

 

[blackforest]

Satire uses humor as a weapon. If the target does not realize he or she is the target the problem lies with the author of the satire. He or she is responsible for properly deploying the literary device.

We are to hold authors, journalists, and film-makers responsible for what they say, not for what their audiences choose to understand.

This is further complicated by the fact that we, as Americans, do not agree on what is or is not stereotyping.

I think we all agree with the notion that Apu represents a stereotype of Indian Americans. But if the motive of the stereotype is satirizing stereotypes, it’s unfair to accuse the filmmakers of disparaging others.

 

[Pup7]

So I can’t share what I know without citations? I can’t tell you that policy changes came about any other way?

Ok. I’ll file that one away. Sometimes you have to take a person at face value - but I get that it’s not a requirement. I have no reason to lie or exaggerate either. :woman_shrugging:t3:

 

[Pup7]

So they get to say that I haven’t been racially discriminated against? Because they say I haven’t?

That is exactly the problem. They can’t define my experience any more than I can define theirs.

Whoa. That’s exactly what you’ve been saying as well.

 

[nightshade]

I thought racism was belittling someone or denying them a service due to their skin color and stereotypes associated with their skin color and culture?

 

[mrsdizzyd]

So they get to say that I haven’t been racially discriminated against? Because they say I haven’t?

That is exactly the problem. They can’t define my experience any more than I can define theirs.

Whoa. That’s exactly what you’ve been saying as well.

Not quite. The academic definition of racism involves complex power dynamics and state actions while the lay definition does not.

It’s not really about defining your experience.

 

[jesucated]

I think you’re vastly overstating the value of intent in literary/cinimeatic criticism. For almost a century, critics have agreed that we cannot simply go on intent (with many dismissing intent altogether). Relying too heavily on the intent of an author/filmmaker is accordingly referred to as the intentional fallacy.

 

[deMontfort]

In this case academic = Marxist

 

[Pup7]

Pup7:

So they get to say that I haven’t been racially discriminated against? Because they say I haven’t?

That is exactly the problem. They can’t define my experience any more than I can define theirs.

Whoa. That’s exactly what you’ve been saying as well.

Not quite. The academic definition of racism involves complex power dynamics and state actions while the lay definition does not.

It’s not really about defining your experience.

How is being discriminated against not defined by the person’s experience? Of course it is.

You don’t need laws to codify racism. People are racist without guidelines and rules.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

I thought racism was belittling someone or denying them a service due to their skin color and stereotypes associated with their skin color and culture?

That is definitely the popular or lay definition of it.

The academic definition is not this one.

That’s why I said when some saying white people can’t be victims of racism they are using a different definition of racism than you are.

 

[jesucated]

You can certainly bring what you know to the table, but the value of a given piece of information maybe be vitiated when it’s not something that your interlocutors can independently analyze. Such information is commonly called hearsay. Again, I’m not saying you are lying or wrong, just that I’ve no way to substantiate the claims.

 

[Pup7]

Amazing that you need an academic definition to tell someone when they’re being discriminated against.

Racism is defined in the dictionary as prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior.

You don’t need a sociology doctorate to know that.