Political Party in Re: to Catholicism

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After understanding your position, I can now understand your posts. I was thinking that you were suggesting that Democrats should help nominate a Pro Life Republican candidate because you thought that would insure a Democratic victory. Many Democrats think this.
The Republicans are in trouble because they left their base and tried to out-Democrat the Democrats in spending. If they nominate a less than true conservative this time, they are going to loose big time. The true conservatives will stay home by the droves. JMO.
 
Because they don’t “support” IT…The support that this is hard and difficult moral issue, very much tied to certain religious proclivities as well as civil rights. They support that there are conflicting views on how this should be handled and its hard for some people at least to know what is their own religious feeling apart from what the law allows. They assuredly support most any and all alternatives that avoid this choice. They desire as do most people that no abortions be done. But most at this point don’t feel that they have a right to impose this on others who feel differently. And this is for a variety of reasons no doubt. They may be wrong, but and its a huge BUT it is simply unfair to not accept that they are sincere and thoughtful in their thinking as you are in yours. When we start dividing into them and us, we most assuredly are heading into a bad place. The Religious Right is hugely responsible for the divisions in the country I would argue because of their incessant claim that its their way or none. Rancor is just not going to carry the day.
Should we not then impose our thoughts as to murder of any kind on our fellow citizens? These folks of which you speak may be sincere and thoughtful in their thinking, but they are dead wrong. And I’m sure you know that if you are a Catholic.
 
Didnt’ you know Rupert and one of the Candidates are buddies? that’s why Sean is touting the pro-choice Rep. candidate. He has no scruples…didnt’ you know that? Fair and Balanced what? lol…
I am no fan of Hannity’s on many issues, but I think many of the people who lived in the area and thru 9/11 are more realistic about what happened then than those of us who were fortunate enough to be removed from the scene. I think it is uncharitable to say someone has no scruples. You do not know him personally. And if you can name and prove a network more fair and balanced, I would surely like to know where. In news delivery FNC has it all over the others. Opinion shows such as Hannity’s are another matter.
 
Well you did ask didn’t you? I don’t see the Republicans as doing any better, only trying to talk what you want to hear. That’s why. I don’t hide in rhetoric. I know what abortion entails. Do you seriously think anybody doesn’t? I don’t hold contempt for them, I point out that their rhetoric is actually counterproductive to their intended goal. It’s an attempt to inflame passions and does not contribute one solid piece of evidence to the discussion. And you are correct, I do not condemn people who are pro-choice. As I said, no one supports abortion.

There is no so-called religious right, there is one. They refer to themselves that way. I consider their fundamentalist appoach dangerous. Fundamentalism is on the rise worldwide and is without a doubt our most significant problem today. The Church also decries fundamentalism.
Nobody supports abortion???There are 1.,2 million a year and the Demcorat party has the right to taxpayer funded abortions enshrined in their platform. Is that your rartionalization-you dont support killing children-you just support the right of others to do so?

Again you duck the question. Why do you support those who beleive it a fundamental right to chop a child into little peices and throw them out with the garbage(Im sorry-perhaps I should have been more senitive and said those who support a womans sacred right to choose)
 
Hello Vern Humphrey

I am new to this thread and only recently started spending any time on the forum. AND maybe I am a little slow, but I can’t determine what your politics and position is. I went back over several of your posts and I am still confused. Could you explain your position clearly so I understand. It appears you are pro-choice but your profile says you are Catholic???
Vern is indeed Catholic. But for some on this forum the fact that they are Catholic does not seem to have much impact on who they will vote for.
 
The Republicans are in trouble because they left their base and tried to out-Democrat the Democrats in spending. If they nominate a less than true conservative this time, they are going to loose big time. The true conservatives will stay home by the droves. JMO.
Perhaps the Republicans left their so-called voting base, but they didn’t leave their funding base. In the matter of spending, there is little difference between Republican and Democratic politicians. The question is, where are they spending? Republicans like to spend money by giving lucrative no-bid contracts with no oversight of accountability to corporations. Democrats like to spend money by providing government services to the people.
 
Vern is indeed Catholic. But for some on this forum the fact that they are Catholic does not seem to have much impact on who they will vote for.
It always comes back to the same thing. Does your politics form your faith or does your faith form your politics?. Unfortunately for way too many Catholics the former is true.
 
Abortion = Murder

Government assistance = Slave state.

Political party = I say what you want to hear and do what I want to do.

George Washington warned about having political parties you have to vote the person.

I do support a womens right to choose. she made that choice when she had sex. Now I know there are those that will ask about Rape and incest victims after that statement. and to that I say Killing the unborn child does not mean the rape did not happen it just means now we also have a dead baby.

Peace in the Lord.

Scott
 
Perhaps the Republicans left their so-called voting base, but they didn’t leave their funding base. In the matter of spending, there is little difference between Republican and Democratic politicians. The question is, where are they spending? Republicans like to spend money by giving lucrative no-bid contracts with no oversight of accountability to corporations. Democrats like to spend money by providing government services to the people.
…like public funding of abortions, which is about the only service Democrats have provided for the poor in decades. I think you’re buying the images of both parties that the image makers create. The images are bogus. Only deeds count.

Neither party is properly identifiable with Catholicism. They’re political parties, identifiable with those who run them and those who support them.

When we think about voting for this person or that person, we need to decide, not on the basis of which party he or she belongs to, but, first, as to whether we have a moral obligation NOT to vote for him or her. If we vote for someone who does evil, we participate in that evil. Some moral issues, like abortion, are absolutes, and if we vote for one we know will support it, then we have blood on our own hands, no matter how we excuse it. If some candidate promises to yank the safety net out from under the truly needy (not the middle class who just want freebies paid for by somebody else), then we’re participating in yanking the bread from the mouth of the poor.

But, among current issues, and until the time comes when some candidate espouses machinegunning school children, the killing of the unborn trumps all. The poor will survive to the next election cycle, and have a chance. The aborted baby won’t, and doesn’t.

I’m not a Republican. Never was. But if a person wants to know about social justice, he or she needs to start with the social encyclicals, not some image of a political party the image makers create. If you want to know why, not being Republican, I supported Bush’s “partial privatization of social security” plan, and support a better safety net for the truly needy, and fewer for those who can afford services themselves, you need to read the encyclicals from “Rerum Novarum” on, and you won’t need to wonder at all. This country treats its truly needy shamefully. Both parties do, and they’re both too busy bribing the middle class with benefits and doing favors for their wealthy supporters to do what they really ought to be doing. It would actually be cheaper if they just cut taxes to the middle class and paid back their big supporters (and themselves) out of the public till openly. It’s wasteful to filter bribes through the zillion government agencies it takes to hide the truth of what they’re doing. And don’t be fooled, they both do the bribing and the payback in equal measure…often to the very same sources.

But abortion is first. If all Catholics voted based on that one criteria alone, just once in a national election, the abortion fortress would come tumbling down, because no national candidate (and few local ones) could stand a loss like that and would never risk it again. Then we could look at other, lesser, evils and duties. Catholics don’t do it, though, because some really do favor abortion, but most who vote for abortion by voting for its supporters, convince themselves (with a lot of duplicitous help) that they’re actually voting for something else, when they’re not.
 
Perhaps the Republicans left their so-called voting base, but they didn’t leave their funding ave base. In the matter of spending, there is little difference between Republican and Democratic politicians. The question is, where are they spending? Republicans like to spend money by giving lucrative no-bid contracts with no oversight of accountability to corporations. Democrats like to spend money by providing government services to the people.
Indeed, the Dems do. They provide services to many folks who could and should afford their own. They both give no-bid conracts to their buddies and sometimes there happens to be only one company that can provide the needed services. You have bought into the liberal mantra well.
 
Remember that Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict have said that the war in Iraq is unjust? Therefore we cannot vote for a candidate who is for the war. The popes are also of course, pro-life and anti-abortion, so we cannot vote for a pro-choice candidate. Therefore it is really hard to be Catholic and to vote. There is one candidate who is anti-war and anti-abortion, but I don’t think he has a very good chance. So I don’t know if I will be able to vote at all.😦
 
…like public funding of abortions, which is about the only service Democrats have provided for the poor in decades. I think you’re buying the images of both parties that the image makers create. The images are bogus. Only deeds count.
Exactly. This is why I am repulsed by Republicanism but an not attracted wholesale by the Democrats.
Neither party is properly identifiable with Catholicism. They’re political parties, identifiable with those who run them and those who support them.
When we think about voting for this person or that person, we need to decide, not on the basis of which party he or she belongs to, but, first, as to whether we have a moral obligation NOT to vote for him or her. If we vote for someone who does evil, we participate in that evil. Some moral issues, like abortion, are absolutes, and if we vote for one we know will support it, then we have blood on our own hands, no matter how we excuse it. If some candidate promises to yank the safety net out from under the truly needy (not the middle class who just want freebies paid for by somebody else), then we’re participating in yanking the bread from the mouth of the poor.
But, among current issues, and until the time comes when some candidate espouses machinegunning school children, the killing of the unborn trumps all. The poor will survive to the next election cycle, and have a chance. The aborted baby won’t, and doesn’t.
I’m not a Republican. Never was. But if a person wants to know about social justice, he or she needs to start with the social encyclicals, not some image of a political party the image makers create. If you want to know why, not being Republican, I supported Bush’s “partial privatization of social security” plan, and support a better safety net for the truly needy, and fewer for those who can afford services themselves, you need to read the encyclicals from “Rerum Novarum” on, and you won’t need to wonder at all. This country treats its truly needy shamefully. Both parties do, and they’re both too busy bribing the middle class with benefits and doing favors for their wealthy supporters to do what they really ought to be doing. It would actually be cheaper if they just cut taxes to the middle class and paid back their big supporters (and themselves) out of the public till openly. It’s wasteful to filter bribes through the zillion government agencies it takes to hide the truth of what they’re doing. And don’t be fooled, they both do the bribing and the payback in equal measure…often to the very same sources.
But abortion is first. If all Catholics voted based on that one criteria alone, just once in a national election, the abortion fortress would come tumbling down, because no national candidate (and few local ones) could stand a loss like that and would never risk it again. Then we could look at other, lesser, evils and duties. Catholics don’t do it, though, because some really do favor abortion, but most who vote for abortion by voting for its supporters, convince themselves (with a lot of duplicitous help) that they’re actually voting for something else, when they’re not.
The problem is, I don’t believe the Republican party wants anything to do with actually ending abortion. It’s too valuable to them as a wedge issue to gain votes.

Do the Democrats do the same? Absolutely, but I’m not defending the Democrats.
 
Indeed, the Dems do. They provide services to many folks who could and should afford their own. They both give no-bid conracts to their buddies and sometimes there happens to be only one company that can provide the needed services. You have bought into the liberal mantra well.
Yeah, terrible that the Democrats support funding for things like schools, agencies to enforce labor laws, unemployment insurance, etc. Things that the Republican party, with some exceptions, have historically opposed.

You have bought into the right-wing mantra well.
 
Remember that Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict have said that the war in Iraq is unjust? **Except, of course that neither did.**Therefore we cannot vote for a candidate who is for the war. **Better re-read what they have said before you conclude this. Neither said it.**The popes are also of course, pro-life and anti-abortion, so we cannot vote for a pro-choice candidate. Agreed. Therefore it is really hard to be Catholic and to vote.You can still vote for a candidate who is prolife, if there turns out to be one. There is one candidate who is anti-war and anti-abortion, **???Whoever this is, it’s not Hillary Clinton, who fits neither category.**but I don’t think he has a very good chance. So I don’t know if I will be able to vote at all.As we used to say in politics, not voting is a half vote for the wrong side.😦
 
Yeah, terrible that the Democrats support funding for things like schools, agencies to enforce labor laws, unemployment insurance, etc.
Except, of course, that they don’t actually do those things. They do, however, talk quite a bit about being supportive of them.

I could be wrong here, but I believe the “No Child Left Behind” funding was a Bush initiative, as was the extension of unemployment insurance for the Katrina victims. And, of course, there were those debit cards, hotels and cruise ships. They mobile homes didn’t work out too well, but they were there. Well, then too, he aided the steelworkers by limiting imported steel. And, of course, Medicare prescription coverage was a Bush initiative. And every bit of it was under a Republican Congress.

Not taking the Republican party line here, my friend, and I could say plenty negative about the Repubs, but this “Democrats are the party of education, healthcare, cute puppies, and flowers and the Republicans are the party of rugged individualism, independence, cowboys and lofty mountain peaks” is Madison Avenue image creation.

Judge by what they actually do. Get past the hype, and maybe you’ll see that this next election is almost certainly going to be about respect for unborn humans, and not much more. Face it. Clear your mind and take moral responsibility for your vote.
 
Remember that Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict have said that the war in Iraq is unjust? Therefore we cannot vote for a candidate who is for the war. The popes are also of course, pro-life and anti-abortion, so we cannot vote for a pro-choice candidate. Therefore it is really hard to be Catholic and to vote. There is one candidate who is anti-war and anti-abortion, but I don’t think he has a very good chance. So I don’t know if I will be able to vote at all.😦
Neither declared the war unjust. And Benedict made it very clear that the iraq war was not on the same level as Abortion:
  1. Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. **There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.
    **
 
Yeah, terrible that the Democrats support funding for things like schools, agencies to enforce labor laws, unemployment insurance, etc. Things that the Republican party, with some exceptions, have historically opposed.

You have bought into the right-wing mantra well.
They have? Can you show us where they have tried to cut off funds for these? Republican had total control of the Govt for 6 years-were any of these programs cut?

We should also ad the caveat that per the democrat platform all these prgrams are available only to children lucky enough to escape the womb.
 
Except, of course, that they don’t actually do those things. They do, however, talk quite a bit about being supportive of them.
ROFLOL! Oh, really? So, the Democrats don’t propose and vote for budget items in these things?
I could be wrong here, but I believe the “No Child Left Behind” funding was a Bush initiative, as was the extension of unemployment insurance for the Katrina victims.
At the benefit of his corporate sponsors…and the funding is insufficient to the task NCLB requires.

NCLB does NOTHING to actually improve learning. Kids just learn to recite what they’ve been drilled. That’s not learning, it’s recitation. While it’s good for math and such, it’s not good for science, history and social studies. How many kids could pass citizenship test?
And, of course, there were those debit cards, hotels and cruise ships. They mobile homes didn’t work out too well, but they were there.

And what’s going on in New Orleans now? How many of the poor people have their homes back in their own neighborhoods? Have the neighborhoods been rebuilt or are they being redeveloped? More corporate welfare at the expense of the people.
Well, then too, he aided the steelworkers by limiting imported steel.

Even a blind hog…
And, of course, Medicare prescription coverage was a Bush initiative. And every bit of it was under a Republican Congress.
Again, who benefits the most? Why can’t Medicare purchase prescription drugs at bulk discounts? More corporate welfare at the expense of the people.
Not taking the Republican party line here, my friend,[/qoute]
Oh, but you are.
and I could say plenty negative about the Repubs,

You never do.
but this “Democrats are the party of education, healthcare, cute puppies, and flowers and the Republicans are the party of rugged individualism, independence, cowboys and lofty mountain peaks” is Madison Avenue image creation.
Granted as fact. Rush Limbaugh and his ilk don’t present the Republicans as that image but this reads like one his talking points.
Judge by what they actually do.
Which is exactly why I am repulsed by the Republican party. They’ve decimated the middle class in record time.

As an aside, the Democratic party isn’t all that attractive either.
Get past the hype, and maybe you’ll see that this next election is almost certainly going to be about respect for unborn humans, and not much more. Face it. Clear your mind and take moral responsibility for your vote.
I plan to…by voting for NEITHER.
 
Neither declared the war unjust. And Benedict made it very clear that the iraq war was not on the same level as Abortion:
  1. Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. **There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.
    **
Amen. Well spoken. Why, is this so clear to some and muddy to others? If everyone would check their sources and prove that their statement was true before posting there may be less dissention. I include myself, I have been guilty of posting something I thought was true and after investigation find it was not. We all need to seek truth in all things.

The statement that both Pope JPII and Pope Benedict XVI had stated the war in Iraq was unjust got me searching for this statement because it was news to me. I knew that both had expressed a desire to see the war ended but as you stated they did not say it was unjust.
 
Amen. Well spoken. Why, is this so clear to some and muddy to others? If everyone would check their sources and prove that their statement was true before posting there may be less dissention. I include myself, I have been guilty of posting something I thought was true and after investigation find it was not. We all need to seek truth in all things.
Many people want to hide from their consciences, and make up reasons to support pro-abortion candidates.
The statement that both Pope JPII and Pope Benedict XVI had stated the war in Iraq was unjust got me searching for this statement because it was news to me. I knew that both had expressed a desire to see the war ended but as you stated they did not say it was unjust.
One has only to read the Catechism (commissioned by Pope John Paul the Great, and written under the supervision of Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI) – the decision on just war is not a Church matter. That is left to the prudential judgement of those officials having responsibility for the defense of the nation.

The Pope can, should, and will always caution nations about war, but cannot make their decisions for them.
 
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