Politics in relationships

[Chesterton18]

She’s pro-life, but she doesn’t think it should be the only consideration when choosing to support a presidential candidate. She’s also Canadian, so she may not be as familiar with US politics.

I’ve found it interesting reading about Canadian politics: even for relatively conservative Catholics (Michael Coren for instance) banning abortion doesn’t seem to be on the agenda. A conservative on abortion in Canada wants to end public financing of abortion.

 

[RLWM]

We are both independents. The biggest Romney supporters that scare us with some of their view. These people think that misfortune only happens to lazy people. .

 

[chevalier]

Politics are rarely “just” politics. In fact, they involve a lot of social justice if not outright moral questions. Those cannot be reduced in importance by simply redefining them as politics. Besides, even so, politics are an important matter to a citizen. The overarching and underlying values are even more so. Therefore give it a good consideration.

 

[SeekNFind]

Since become Catholic, the political issue has been a difficult one for me to reconcile. I understand why a Catholic would be conservative on moral issues, as I am myself. However, regarding social justice, it seems the GOP really misses the mark. And leading up to the election, there have been some horrible comments made by candidates about minorities for example. There was the debacle with the Tea Party referring to President Obama as the N-word. Actually, there has been a fair bit of use of the N-word in the political arena since Obama’s election. That really disturbs me.

So while politics wouldn’t make or break my decision about whether or not to seriously date someone, I would want to know what he thought about those issues, particularly the social justice and racial stuff.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Since become Catholic, the political issue has been a difficult one for me to reconcile. I understand why a Catholic would be conservative on moral issues, as I am myself. However, regarding social justice, it seems the GOP really misses the mark. And leading up to the election, there have been some horrible comments made by candidates about minorities for example. There was the debacle with the Tea Party referring to President Obama as the N-word. Actually, there has been a fair bit of use of the N-word in the political arena since Obama’s election. That really disturbs me.

So while politics wouldn’t make or break my decision about whether or not to seriously date someone, I would want to know what he thought about those issues, particularly the social justice and racial stuff.

Well put.

 

[Moore11]

My wife and I are lockstep in agreement with politics. It adds to our marriage and knowing that the person you are raising your kids with agrees with your worldview is a big stress relief.
I think it is one of the things that helps us realize that we have a common goal and vision.

I know some families who do not share the same views. Mostly the woman is a liberal and the man “used to be a conservative” In my experience one person (usually the man) takes a back seat and the woman tends to be the vocal activist. I’m sure this is not always the case but two couples we know closely follow this model. One guy was a military, hard core conservative, his wife was a bra burning hippie. Now he extols the virtues of Obama.

He will be a decon soon and it will be interesting to see if his pro choice views follow him into the pulpit.

 

[Moore11]

Since become Catholic, the political issue has been a difficult one for me to reconcile. I understand why a Catholic would be conservative on moral issues, as I am myself. However, regarding social justice, it seems the GOP really misses the mark. And leading up to the election, there have been some horrible comments made by candidates about minorities for example. There was the debacle with the Tea Party referring to President Obama as the N-word. Actually, there has been a fair bit of use of the N-word in the political arena since Obama’s election. That really disturbs me.

So while politics wouldn’t make or break my decision about whether or not to seriously date someone, I would want to know what he thought about those issues, particularly the social justice and racial stuff.

I’ll tell you one thing. I am around a lot of like minded conservatives and they dont like Obama, they (and I) think he is a baby killing socialist. They call him lots of names. But NEVER NEVER NEVER would we stand for a racial slur. Even in private conversations. I have never heard ANYONE describe him that way. I would not stand for it and neither would anyone I associate with. But as bad as it is it is not as grotesque as being pro choice.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

Perhaps there is a question you can ask yourself (and ask her) that will help you differentiate between issues that will make for lively debate and issues that will cause marital stress or heartbreak:
**
Would I be ok with my children having these beliefs someday?**

Here is an example: my dh and I share the most basic values, and in general, we have similar politics, but we are not identical in our political views. We are both very conservative, but he is probably more so than I am. I am uncomfortable with the death penalty (although not vehemently against it), but my dh is strongly in favor of it. If my children grow up and decide that they too are strongly in favor of the death penalty, even though I will disagree with them, I will not experience heartache over that choice. On the other hand, if my children grow up to be strongly pro-choice, it would NOT be ok with me. That is because I am sympathetic to the values of people on both sides of the death penalty debate, but I am not sympathetic to the values that lead one to become pro-choice. In addition, my highest goal for my children is to teach them to be faithful Catholics, in the hope that the practice of their faith will eventually lead them to heaven. The political opinions that indicate values that contradict that faith are of greater concern to me.

Also, since your girlfriend is the more activist of the two, you can probably already imagine what it might be like to have her go out and campaign for a cause you disagree with. Why not ask her how she would feel if you were simultaneously on the other side of the activism, campaigning against her cause? In the 2008 elections, my sister and mother actively campaigned for Obama. It was very difficult for me to listen to them talk about it, even briefly - it really upset me. Then after he was in office, and when the health care bill was passed, I had a really hard time not being angry with them for something that was horrifying and very personal to me. I didn’t want to be around them, and my own peace was affected by this. If the person campaigning for those things had been my husband, it would’ve been much, much harder to deal with.

 

[SeekNFind]

I’ll tell you one thing. I am around a lot of like minded conservatives and they dont like Obama, they (and I) think he is a baby killing socialist. They call him lots of names. But NEVER NEVER NEVER would we stand for a racial slur. Even in private conversations. I have never heard ANYONE describe him that way. I would not stand for it and neither would anyone I associate with. But as bad as it is it is not as grotesque as being pro choice.

Are you saying it doesn’t happen at all or just not in your group? It’s great that you and your circle don’t use such language, but the fact remains that there are many that do, including one very public debacle with a Tea Party sign. And even if it wasn’t a direct racial slur, I’ve seen the Obamas compared to monkeys, or there have been subtle digs about race. I realize these might be extreme examples but these are your people, so to speak, your ultra-conservative republicans.

Anyway, as long as hubby was in agreement that such language is unacceptable then I wouldn’t mind if we different on *some *issues.

 

[Jeremiah1278]

My wife is quite a bit more liberal than I am. We get in heated debates about these issues.

Who cares? Such is life. If you want someone who doesn’t challenge you on your beliefs, that’s fine. I rather enjoy it, though, and it forces me to really know my stuff, because I love and respect her. If my wife feels a certain way about a political position, I take it seriously and examine my position, because I love her and trust her and respect her. My wife is a fine Catholic. We’ll raise our kids in the Catholic faith. We’ll always go at each others’ throats on Second Amendment rights. And after, we’ll have dinner, tell jokes, watch Project Runway and tuck the kid to bed.

Right of Center and Left of Center are so dang identical in this country. They both want the exact same things, but vary relatively minor on how to go about it. Take the health care bill. The Right in this country absolutely hates it and calls it socialism. Compare it to a real socialist health care system and it looks a heckuvalot more like our fake free market in which you are stuck with whatever plan your employer has. Yeah… that’s a free a market. Anyway. The FOX v. MSNBC news **** has polarized people waaaay too much. Everyone’s so righteously indignant they lose respect for the opposition. I know your gal is an Obama supporter. And liberals in my life experience are a bit more unwilling to stomach the presence of the opposition because they’re such big hearted little fellas who pour their entire being into their politics. Sit with it for a bit and let her mold into a conservative as she ages

On a somewhat serious note, though. If she has legitimate concerns about your differences, she’s taking things way too seriously and needs to perhaps lighten up or she doesn’t really respect you enough to sit with your opinions. Talk about having too narrow a checklist for a life partner. “Where are you on Constitutional power under the Commerce Clause?”

Good luck, though!

 

[Moore11]

Are you saying it doesn’t happen at all or just not in your group? It’s great that you and your circle don’t use such language, but the fact remains that there are many that do, including one very public debacle with a Tea Party sign. And even if it wasn’t a direct racial slur, I’ve seen the Obamas compared to monkeys, or there have been subtle digs about race. I realize these might be extreme examples but these are your people, so to speak, your ultra-conservative republicans.

Anyway, as long as hubby was in agreement that such language is unacceptable then I wouldn’t mind if we different on *some *issues.

Not that it is on topic or anything but I think what you are describing is rare. I think the media loves to find any example of that and broadcast it. I actually think some of the leftists get away with way worse things than what you are describing. Again, racism is ugly. Murder is worse.

 

[SeekNFind]

Not that it is on topic or anything but I think what you are describing is rare. I think the media loves to find any example of that and broadcast it. I actually think some of the leftists get away with way worse things than what you are describing. Again, racism is ugly. Murder is worse.

I would hardly say these instances are “rare” and any perusal of website with a news story that mentions POTUS or FLOTUS would argue against these kind of statements as being rare. Racism is alive and well in the USA and is worse post-Obama IMO. People are so quick to dismiss racism and say there can’t be racism because we have a black president. Yeah, okay. All sin is sin and I don’t see the reason to qualify racism as better than abortion (i.e. “my sin is better than your sin”). It’s all horrible.

Anyway, we clearly have two different perspectives on this and that’s fine. There’s no need to hijack the thread further. Back to the OPs main point, I am concerned about the racial dynamics in the GOP/TP and although I wouldn’t automatically dismiss a guy who was a staunch Republican, I would need to suss out his deeper beliefs and ideologies.

 

[Moore11]

I would hardly say these instances are “rare” and any perusal of website with a news story that mentions POTUS or FLOTUS would argue against these kind of statements as being rare. Racism is alive and well in the USA and is worse post-Obama IMO. People are so quick to dismiss racism and say there can’t be racism because we have a black president. Yeah, okay. All sin is sin and I don’t see the reason to qualify racism as better than abortion (i.e. “my sin is better than your sin”). It’s all horrible.

Anyway, we clearly have two different perspectives on this and that’s fine. There’s no need to hijack the thread further. Back to the OPs main point, I am concerned about the racial dynamics in the GOP/TP and although I wouldn’t automatically dismiss a guy who was a staunch Republican, I would need to suss out his deeper beliefs and ideologies.

You are deep in rhetoric. All sin is equal? huh? So lying to a child is the same as killing it in the womb? geesh.
But you are right PM me if you wish to continue your point of view of the vast number of people that are racist based on differing policies of the president.

 

[SeekNFind]

You are deep in rhetoric. All sin is equal? huh? So lying to a child is the same as killing it in the womb? geesh.
But you are right PM me if you wish to continue your point of view of the vast number of people that are racist based on differing policies of the president.

I never said this. I have no problem if people don’t agree with the President. I don’t agree with him on a lot of things myself. I simply stated that racism in the GOP is far from rare. There’s probably no point of continuing this even in PMs if my statements are going to be twisted. And again, no need for me to qualify sin. That’s not my job. All the best to you.

 

[Moore11]

I never said this. I have no problem if people don’t agree with the President. I don’t agree with him on a lot of things myself. I simply stated that racism in the GOP is far from rare. There’s probably no point of continuing this even in PMs if my statements are going to be twisted. And again, no need for me to qualify sin. That’s not my job. All the best to you.

The GOP is not racist. period. You are just way out of line here. I have heard way worse from the “keep your rosaries off my ovaries” crowd.

It is not common, it is not prevalent. In fact I would think you would notice the racism embedded in many african american comics, preachers, and polititians who are most certainly not GOP affiliated.

Racism is not confined to a party, or a people. And you are labeling and insinuating a group as such. but we do need to stop this. Good day sir.

 

[superamazingman]

The GOP is not racist. period. You are just way out of line here. I have heard way worse from the “keep your rosaries off my ovaries” crowd.

It is not common, it is not prevalent. In fact I would think you would notice the racism embedded in many african american comics, preachers, and polititians who are most certainly not GOP affiliated.

Racism is not confined to a party, or a people. And you are labeling and insinuating a group as such. but we do need to stop this. Good day sir.

Let us not forget that it was the liberals who pretty much destroyed any chance Herman Cain had at making the presidential ticket. I don’t see calls of racism there.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

It isn’t just conservatives who need to think about how well politics mesh in a relationships. The issues that are important to you are going to depend on your own life and your own experiences. As much as I disagree with modern conservative ideology there are really only 3 big make or break issues. One is poverty. My family is kind, funny, and full of love. They are also extremely poor. And that is how I grew up. Despite years of hard work they were always poor, and it got worse once my parents became disabled. I cannot be with someone who would look down on them or see them as lazy. They are not. And yes, there were times when we had to use food stamps just to eat.

The second is homosexuality. I have several gay relatives and many gay friends. It would not be fair to them, me, or the rest of my family to bring someone around who would look down on them or see them as being less than others.

And the last big one is abortion. I could not be with someone who is against abortion. If I got pregnant right now there is no way I would keep it. But at the same time I could never abort if the father would forever think his child had been killed. I just couldn’t put anyone through that. So to keep from either person being put in an unfair and devastating situation I don’t go there.

Other than that of course there are the typical dealbreakers: racism, sexism, etc. But those are the only real political issues that matter to me.

Of course, as life goes on my priorities may change. And other people with different beliefs and priorities are going to have a different list. Politics, like everything else are just something that you have to learn to navigate in a relationship.

 

[Moore11]

It isn’t just conservatives who need to think about how well politics mesh in a relationships. The issues that are important to you are going to depend on your own life and your own experiences. As much as I disagree with modern conservative ideology there are really only 3 big make or break issues. One is poverty. My family is kind, funny, and full of love. They are also extremely poor. And that is how I grew up. Despite years of hard work they were always poor, and it got worse once my parents became disabled. I cannot be with someone who would look down on them or see them as lazy. They are not. And yes, there were times when we had to use food stamps just to eat.

The second is homosexuality. I have several gay relatives and many gay friends. It would not be fair to them, me, or the rest of my family to bring someone around who would look down on them or see them as being less than others.

And the last big one is abortion. I could not be with someone who is against abortion. If I got pregnant right now there is no way I would keep it. But at the same time I could never abort if the father would forever think his child had been killed. I just couldn’t put anyone through that. So to keep from either person being put in an unfair and devastating situation I don’t go there.

Other than that of course there are the typical dealbreakers: racism, sexism, etc. But those are the only real political issues that matter to me.

Of course, as life goes on my priorities may change. And other people with different beliefs and priorities are going to have a different list. Politics, like everything else are just something that you have to learn to navigate in a relationship.

I think this post is a great example of how sometimes two political ideologies cannot match up. A Catholic, conservative or liberal, would have some serious problems being married to someone who would abort.
While, we dont need to turn this thread into a debate about abortion it is an interesting point you bring up when political and religious beliefs clash and what that does to a marriage.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I think this post is a great example of how sometimes two political ideologies cannot match up. A Catholic, conservative or liberal, would have some serious problems being married to someone who would abort.
While, we dont need to turn this thread into a debate about abortion it is an interesting point you bring up when political and religious beliefs clash and what that does to a marriage.

Religious beliefs are a whole different issue. I wrote a few paragraphs on political views, but religious views would require a book! Mostly because there are some very deep issues when religion comes in to play, especially when you are looking for someone to raise children with.

 

[sweetpetunia]

Good on her for thinking this through with you. She’s absolutely correct that the education of your children is very important, and could possibly be a problem further down the line. It is very, very good that she is so upfront with how strongly she feels in regards to this.

For me, a difference of opinion in regards to universal heath care and renewable energy are not deal breakers at all or by any means! However, the rank of values would be problematic for me, to say the least. If my husband could set his pro-life views aside and vote pro-abortion in favor of renewable energy and universal health care, I would never have married him (says the girl who loves the Canadian healthcare system and is in favour of being good stewards of creation).

No matter how much you sugarcoat it, he’d be tacitly stating by his actions that renewable energy is more important an issue than hundreds of thousands of babies’ lives. Furthermore, by voting pro-choice, he’d be actively participating in keeping a culture of death in place and in power. There is not a single faithful Catholic priest who would say that it is morally permissible to vote pro-abortion when there is a viable pro-life candidate running. We cannot, as Catholics, vote pro-abortion in good conscience. It is too grave a violation of human rights. There is a reason that Catholic Forums is running a banner that says “Form your conscience, Vote your Faith”.

I strongly, strongly recommend reading this article by a Catholic priest with a PhD on how Catholics can vote. Here is an excerpt that is particularly relevant:

“If a political candidate supported abortion, or any other moral evil, such as assisted suicide and euthanasia, for that matter, it would not be morally permissible for you to vote for that person. This is because, in voting for such a person, you would become an accomplice in the moral evil at issue. For this reason, moral evils such as abortion, euthanasia and assisted suicide are examples of a “disqualifying issue.” A disqualifying issue is one which is of such gravity and importance that it allows for no political maneuvering. It is an issue that strikes at the heart of the human person and is non-negotiable. A disqualifying issue is one of such enormity that by itself renders a candidate for office unacceptable regardless of his position on other matters. You must sacrifice your feelings on other issues because you know that you cannot participate in any way in an approval of a violent and evil violation of basic human rights. A candidate for office who supports abortion rights or any other moral evil has disqualified himself as a person that you can vote for. You do not have to vote for a person because he is pro-life. But you may not vote for any candidate who supports abortion rights.” Source: A Brief Catechism for Catholic Voters by Fr. Stephen F. Torraco, PhD

ewtn.com/vote/brief_catechism.htm