Poll: California Catholics strongly support homosexual unions

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StAnastasia said:
Which may solve nothing, as n doubt it will be appealed. I still think the state could end a lot of headaches by getting out of the marriage business, granting civil unions, and leaving the marrying to religious organizations. In a pluralistic and secular society, the state can’t bless or sanctify anything; it can only recognize the legality of relationships.
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“marriage business” is only a slogan. Do you you prefer the State forcing homosexual ‘education’ on little kids in schools? Gay storybooks? There’s nothing wrong with teaching little kids not to belittle and harm homosexuals, but books like King and King show how far the State will get into the promoting the married homosexual lifestyle business to little kids.

The society is secular? On what basis do you make that statement? Our coins have the inscription: In God We Trust. I think attempts to rewrite history will not withstand close scrutiny.

God bless,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
“marriage business” is only a slogan. Do you you prefer the State forcing homosexual ‘education’ on little kids in schools? Gay storybooks? There’s nothing wrong with teaching little kids not to belittle and harm homosexuals, but books like King and King show how far the State will get into the promoting the married homosexual lifestyle business to little kids.

The society is secular? On what basis do you make that statement? Our coins have the inscription: In God We Trust. I think attempts to rewrite history will not withstand close scrutiny.

God bless,
Ed
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Ed, they, (the gay lobby) don’t care a whit for marriage, This is not about marriage at all. What they really want is to re-define the culture, to make stating in public what used to be self evident (Marriage is between one man and one woman under the eyes of God) a hate crime, and they are succeeding. It is just a matter of time before certain scriptures are regarded as hate speech and will be required to be expunged from the pulpit. It is already happening in Canada and in the EU. Unfortunately for them, all their successes will never fill that “God shaped hole” in their souls.
 
Aquinas62 said:
Ed, they, (the gay lobby) don’t care a whit for marriage, they want to re-define the culture, to make stating in public what used to be self evident (Marriage is between one man and one woman under the eyes of God) a hate crime, and they are succeeding. It is just a matter of time before certain scriptures are regarded as hate speech and will be required to be expunged from the pulpit. It is already happening in Canada and in the EU.
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That’s paranoia.

One is free to read any verse from the Bible in a church. I know the Canadian case, and you are misstating it.
 
edwest2 said:
“marriage business” is only a slogan. Do you you prefer the State forcing homosexual ‘education’ on little kids in schools? Gay storybooks? There’s nothing wrong with teaching little kids not to belittle and harm homosexuals, but books like King and King show how far the State will get into the promoting the married homosexual lifestyle business to little kids.
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Yes, the gay lifestyle is already being promoted and propagandized to grade school children. The goal is to convince children at an early age that homosexuality is perfectly normal. And gosh, since kids that age prefer same sex playmates anyway, maybe they’ll just be convinced that they’re gay.
 
JimG said:
Yes, the gay lifestyle is already being promoted and propagandized to grade school children. The goal is to convince children at an early age that homosexuality is perfectly normal. And gosh, since kids that age prefer same sex playmates anyway, maybe they’ll just be convinced that they’re gay.
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Yes, get em while they are young…
 
JimG said:
Yes, the gay lifestyle is already being promoted and propagandized to grade school children. The goal is to convince children at an early age that homosexuality is perfectly normal. And gosh, since kids that age prefer same sex playmates anyway, maybe they’ll just be convinced that they’re gay.
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:ehh:

Uh… seriously Jim, this is a rather outlandish claim to make. Is there any reason to for anyone to believe that children will think themselves gay simply because they don’t have any sexual desires? And once they develop sexual desires, do you really think they would still consider themselves gay?
 
Dale_M said:
:ehh:

Uh… seriously Jim, this is a rather outlandish claim to make. Is there any reason to for anyone to believe that children will think themselves gay simply because they don’t have any sexual desires? And once they develop sexual desires, do you really think they would still consider themselves gay?
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I think it’s rather outlandish, since they don’t have any sexual desires, to be reading from gay-oriented schoolbooks and storybooks in the grade school years. It serves only as propaganda for the gay agenda. What’s a kid supposed to think about a story where the king looks for a bride but ends up marrying another king instead?
 
What is funny is that there are plenty of Chrisitian churches who are willing to marry gays, but are forbidden by law. And the law in this case is one advanced by the Catholic and Mormon churches. So some churces are trying to force others to conform to their religous beliefs, through the force of law.

The First Amendment conflict is so obvious it is ironic to recall that should the founders have given into the attitudes of many contemporary supporters of Proposition 8, the Catholic Church could easily have been banned from these shores. But they rose above such nonsense and protected religious freedom for all, by limiting the ability of the majority to impact the religous freedom of the minority.

In a world where religion can still cause people to kill, it is too bad Christian religous leaders, who have centuries on the framers of our Constitution, cannot catch up to them and offer a better example to the world.
 
JimG said:
I think it’s rather outlandish, since they don’t have any sexual desires, to be reading from gay-oriented schoolbooks and storybooks in the grade school years. It serves only as propaganda for the gay agenda.
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No. It serves to enlighten students about the existence of gay parent couples that run some of the households of other students in their classrooms. It counters the demonization of gays in young, immature culture where epithets and bullying are rampant. It helps build a foundation of understanding and tolerance for a fact of life that some other students in their classroom have no choice except to say, “I love both my moms”. Because they actually do.
What’s a kid supposed to think about a story where the king looks for a bride but ends up marrying another king instead?
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They probably initially think, “That’s pretty weird.” Then they ask natural questions out of curiosity in order to learn and to try to understand. Which is all that most teachers hope for. I am a teacher, by the way.
 
larkin31 said:
No. It serves to enlighten students about the existence of gay parent couples that run some of the households of other students in their classrooms. It counters the demonization of gays in young, immature culture where epithets and bullying are rampant. It helps build a foundation of understanding and tolerance for a fact of life that some other students in their classroom have no choice except to say, “I love both my moms”. Because they actually do.
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No attacks on you as a teacher, but perhaps the curriculum should rather focus on creating successful students who can pass basic competency tests than they should in social experimentation and creating “a foundation of understanding and tolerance”. The school isn’t responsible for a child’s moral upbringing, a parent is.
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larkin31:
They probably initially think, “That’s pretty weird.” Then they ask natural questions out of curiosity in order to learn and to try to understand. Which is all that most teachers hope for. I am a teacher, by the way.
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I’m still trying to think of what the “compelling interest” is for a public institution to even consider the subject.
 
Phil_Stone said:
What is funny is that there are plenty of Chrisitian churches who are willing to marry gays, but are forbidden by law. And the law in this case is one advanced by the Catholic and Mormon churches. So some churces are trying to force others to conform to their religous beliefs, through the force of law.

The First Amendment conflict is so obvious it is ironic to recall that should the founders have given into the attitudes of many contemporary supporters of Proposition 8, the Catholic Church could easily have been banned from these shores. But they rose above such nonsense and protected religious freedom for all, by limiting the ability of the majority to impact the religous freedom of the minority.

In a world where religion can still cause people to kill, it is too bad Christian religous leaders, who have centuries on the framers of our Constitution, cannot catch up to them and offer a better example to the world.
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If you want to know what the founding fathers thought of sodomy, take a gander at, The Writings of George Washington From The Original Manuscript Sources, 1745-1799; John C. Fitzpatrick, Editor:
Head Quarters, V. Forge, Saturday, March 14, 1778: At a General Court Martial whereof Colo. Tupper was President (10th March 1778) Lieutt. Enslin of Colo. Malcom’s Regiment tried for attempting to commit sodomy, with John Monhort a soldier; Secondly, For Perjury in swearing to false Accounts, found guilty of the charges exhibited against him, being breaches of 5th. Article 18th. Section of the Articles of War and do sentence him to be dismiss’d the service with Infamy. His Excellency the Commander in Chief approves the sentence and with Abhorrence and Detestation of such Infamous Crimes orders Lieutt. Enslin to be drummed out of Camp tomorrow morning by all the Drummers and Fifers in the Army never to return; The Drummers and Fifers to attend on the Grand Parade at Guard mounting for that Purpose. [Emphasis in the original].
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theamericanview.com/index.php?id=761
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larkin31 said:
That’s paranoia.

One is free to read any verse from the Bible in a church.
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That is true, but if people don’t hear it [whatever “it” is] from the pulpit, they don’t consider it important.
I know the Canadian case, and you are misstating it.
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Care to state what your take on it is?
 
scipio337 said:
No attacks on you as a teacher, but perhaps the curriculum should rather focus on creating successful students who can pass basic competency tests than they should in social experimentation and creating “a foundation of understanding and tolerance”. The school isn’t responsible for a child’s moral upbringing, a parent is.

I’m still trying to think of what the “compelling interest” is for a public institution to even consider the subject.
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We also enforce “no cutting the line.” Is there a “compelling interest” in that? Schools today are large communities of children with complex social and cultural dynamics and interests. Teachers, since the first Puritan Primer, have used the classroom to do more than simply teach the three Rs. Schools are absolutely ALSO responsible for moral training. If we did not do this, we would have chaos, and parents would bitterly complain.
 
sedonaman said:
That is part of learning, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
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Indeed, one of the great lessons of ethics world-wide. I am happy to teach it everyday as a teacher. I consider moral teaching my duty.
 
larkin31 said:
We also enforce “no cutting the line.” Is there a “compelling interest” in that? Schools today are large communities of children with complex social and cultural dynamics and interests. Teachers, since the first Puritan Primer, have used the classroom to do more than simply teach the three Rs. Schools are absolutely ALSO responsible for moral training. If we did not do this, we would have chaos, and parents would bitterly complain.
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I understand your point, but disagree. The “no cutting in line” rule is more about structure and order, not moral teaching. Given schools in my area recently (who have had several school boards taken over by the state due to failing competency grades), I shudder to think of what the results of that “moral training” might be, given their abject failure in teaching the “three Rs”.

This proud papa’s oldest child will start her first day of kindergarten next week. At a private, Catholic school. 😉
 
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